Is the Rapture biblical

[starfield]

I understand why you might think there is no actual tangible 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth but I think you are wrong. Daniel 7:13-14 are yet future. The "kings" you cite from Daniel 2:44 are also future.

Christ has not yet returned but He will soon as we learned from Hosea that there would be a 2,000 year gap between His earthly birth and His Second Coming. We are at approx 6,000 years of Biblical recorded history. An additional 1,000 years is needed for divine completeness so, it makes sense for there to be a 1,000 years of peace under Christ's reign before the final eternal heaven state.

Actually, Daniel 7:13-14 is prophecy concerning the ascension and enthronement of Christ. In Daniel's vision he was in heaven and saw Jesus coming to meet the Ancient of Days (which is His ascension) where He was given a kingdom to rule over from His throne. This was fulfilled in Acts 1.

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Acts 1:9-10 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Peter's sermon. Christ was already on the Davidic throne in heaven...
Acts 2:29-36
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Are you going to say the above passage is still future?

As for Daniel 2:44, the kingdom was to be set up through Christ's first coming during the time of the Roman Empire. Thus that has been fulfilled.

Christ even stated that His kingdom had arrived...
Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Notice that He didn't say "the time will be fulfilled at my second coming to establish a kingdom", rather He said "the time is fulfilled"; it has come.

So there's no indication of a literal 1,000-year reign of Christ on earth in the bible.

 

[Historicist]

I've read the entire New Testament and while the signs and scriptures certainly point to Jesus' return, I didn't find any evidence of a Rapture and assumed the meeting in the air was referring to the second coming. Is the rapture just wishful thinking and does it occur, if it is even legitimate, before or after the mark of the beast? Bible says let no man deceive you for that day shall not come until the man of perdition is revealed (paraphrased). Confused by this.

Correct GM777, there is no evidence in scripture for the idea that Jesus, upon descending from heaven as per 1 Thess. 4:13-18 gives the wicked and non-Christians a second chance by going back and descending again---a third time! No, there is no convenient second chance for "them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9) between when Jesus descends in 1 Thess. 4:13-18 and---some third time. Neither did the early church and Protestant Reformers teach this. Nor did they teach a futurized 70th week. But the dispensationalist-futurist establishment does, and it's to create the idea of a second chance, one for the "synagogue of Satan they call "Israel." Can you see through the smokescreen?

 

[Anonimous]

Not confused by the Anti-Christ being revealed, I'm confused by the lack of evidence for a rapture of the church before things get ugly

No confusion there really. The reason there is no evidence is because there is none. Not before anyway...unless taking one or two verses and twisting just a little here and there.

 

[Angela53510]

The OP has read the Bible correctly! There is no evidence for a rapture, as so many people have already posted here.

 

[GaryA]

Actually, Daniel 7:13-14 is prophecy concerning the ascension and enthronement of Christ. In Daniel's vision he was in heaven and saw Jesus coming to meet the Ancient of Days (which is His ascension) where He was given a kingdom to rule over from His throne. This was fulfilled in Acts 1.

Daniel 7:13-14 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Acts 1:9-10 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

No. Daniel 7:13-14 is referring to the Second Coming of Christ. These verses must be considered in view of the context of the whole chapter.

The two phrases that are bolded in the quote above are not referring to the same event. The Daniel phrase is "coming" ( Return of Christ ); the Acts phrase is "going" ( Ascension of Christ ).

Peter's sermon. Christ was already on the Davidic throne in heaven...
Acts 2:29-36
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Are you going to say the above passage is still future?

There is no Davidic throne in heaven. ( 3rd heaven ) There is only one throne in heaven --- the throne of the Almighty Father Himself. Jesus is not [ currently ] sitting "on His own throne" ( yet - not until He returns ); rather, He is sitting at the right hand of the Father --- on His Father's throne...

Christ's throne will be on earth.

The Davidic throne is strictly on earth.

The phrase 'raise up' in verse 30 is in the historical sense of eventually coming out of the lineage of David.

The phrase 'raised up' in verse 32 is specifically referring to Christ's resurrection.

The phrase 'to sit on his throne' is referring to Christ sitting on David's throne; however, it only points to "some time later" ( i.e., Second Coming of Christ ) - not the moment Christ is "raised up" ( i.e., immediately ).

The phrase 'to sit on his throne' and verse 35 point to [ our ] future; the rest is past.

As for Daniel 2:44, the kingdom was to be set up through Christ's first coming during the time of the Roman Empire. Thus that has been fulfilled.

Christ even stated that His kingdom had arrived...
Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Notice that He didn't say "the time will be fulfilled at my second coming to establish a kingdom", rather He said "the time is fulfilled"; it has come.

Be careful not to confuse the 'spiritual' kingdom with the 'physical' one...

They are indeed the same kingdom; however, the 'spiritual' came with the First Coming of Christ and the 'physical' will come with the Second Coming of Christ.

So there's no indication of a literal 1,000-year reign of Christ on earth in the bible.

Revelation 20:

[SUP]1[/SUP] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [SUP]2[/SUP] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [SUP]3[/SUP] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. [SUP]4[/SUP] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [SUP]5[/SUP] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [SUP]6[/SUP] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I believe that there is...

 

[starfield]

No. Daniel 7:13-14 is referring to the Second Coming of Christ. These verses must be considered in view of the context of the whole chapter.

The two phrases that are bolded in the quote above are not referring to the same event. The Daniel phrase is "coming" ( Return of Christ ); the Acts phrase is "going" ( Ascension of Christ ).

Read the text carefully: "I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him". The Son of Man came to meet the Ancient of Days, which is God; that is referring to His ascension when He went to take His throne at the right hand of God. It is not referring to the Second Advent.

There is no Davidic throne in heaven. ( 3rd heaven ) There is only one throne in heaven --- the throne of the Almighty Father Himself. Jesus is not [ currently ] sitting "on His own throne" ( yet - not until He returns ); rather, He is sitting at the right hand of the Father --- on His Father's throne...

The right hand of the Father and throne of David are synonymous.

Christ's throne will be on earth.

The Davidic throne is strictly on earth.

God's covenant with David...
2 Samuel 7:12-13 "When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever". Gary, David's literal throne is long gone. While Solomon fulfilled that prophecy in part, Christ, being a descendant of David, ultimately fulfilled it by making the throne and kingdom eternal. Christ built the house of God, which is the church, the spiritual temple (1 Peter 2:4-6). Was this Messianic prophecy fulfilled by Christ at His first coming: Isaiah 9:6-7 "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this".
Absolutely.

Jesus is not [ currently ] sitting "on His own throne"

According to scriputure, He is. He is the supreme God on the throne.
Hebrews 1:3-9
3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"?
6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
7 Of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, and his ministers a flame of fire."
8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions."

Having finished His work on earth, Jesus sat down on His throne in heaven serving as mediator for His elect. Like Melchizedek, Jesus has a combined office of priest and king. So if He isn't currently king, He's not priest either.

The phrase 'raise up' in verse 30 is in the historical sense of eventually coming out of the lineage of David.

The phrase 'raised up' in verse 32 is specifically referring to Christ's resurrection.

The phrase 'to sit on his throne' is referring to Christ sitting on David's throne; however, it only points to "some time later" ( i.e., Second Coming of Christ ) - not the moment Christ is "raised up" ( i.e., immediately ).

The phrase 'to sit on his throne' and verse 35 point to [ our ] future; the rest is past.

God promised David that He would set one of his descendants on his throne forever, essentially making this offspring a king forever. Peter preached that this promise was fulfilled at Jesus' resurrection and ascension. Gary, do you believe Jesus is presently King holding all power and authority? If He is presently a King, then He must have a kingdom now. A king must have a kingdom.

Be careful not to confuse the 'spiritual' kingdom with the 'physical' one...

They are indeed the same kingdom; however, the 'spiritual' came with the First Coming of Christ and the 'physical' will come with the Second Coming of Christ.

Scripture presents only one kingdom, and it is spiritual. Besides, Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world".
Luke 17:20-21
20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed,
21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

Revelation 20:

[SUP]1[/SUP] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. [SUP]2[/SUP] And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, [SUP]3[/SUP] And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. [SUP]4[/SUP] And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [SUP]5[/SUP] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. [SUP]6[/SUP] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I believe that there is...

What I see in that passage is souls who were killed for their witness of Christ reign with Him in heaven. It doesn't say Christ will reign from an earthly throne in Jerusalem for 1,000 literal years.

 

[biscuit]

Starfield,

Concrete evidence was given pertaining to Jesus Christ' 1000 year reign on earth.

 

[starfield]

Starfield,

Concrete evidence was given pertaining to Jesus Christ' 1000 year reign on earth.

By who? Where? Which verses? I haven't seen anyone provide a verse that clearly state a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on this earth, other than gross misinterpretation of scripture.

 

[GaryA]

he came to the Ancient of Days

It is true that 'Ancient of Days' is referring to the Almighty Father; however, this description takes place in the 2nd heaven, not the 3rd heaven.

The right hand of the Father and throne of David are synonymous.

Honey, you don't even know what you are saying. This would be on the order and level of blasphemy against the Almighty Father. You are absolutely and unequivocally incorrect. I am curious though, as to where you got this idea...? Don't tell me -- "The Bible" -- I know better. Otherwise -- perhaps - you might show me chapter and verse on that?

Peter preached that this promise was fulfilled at Jesus' resurrection and ascension.

Care to show me chapter and verse on that?

Gary, do you believe Jesus is presently King holding all power and authority?

Nope. If He was, there would be no United Nations ( for example ) working in tandem with Satan against the will of God.

In terms of ability - yes, He has all power and authority over the entire physical universe. In terms of ruling and reigning over the earth - no, He is not holding all power and authority. ( The key word here is 'holding'... )

If He is presently a King, then He must have a kingdom now. A king must have a kingdom.

Yes -- now, a spiritual one; and later, a physical one... ( on the earth )


Be careful not to get confused between Jesus being the head of His Church and ruling His Kingdom ( that is spiritual ) -- and, Him ruling and reigning in His Kingdom ( that is physical ) over all the earth... ( The realm of His spiritual kingdom - at this time - encompasses only believers. The physical kingdom encompasses the whole earth. They are two very different but very valid things. They both have their part. One is fulfilled, the other is not - yet. )

Scripture presents only one kingdom, and it is spiritual.

You will not be able to understand all of this properly until you are able to see the 'physical' kingdom represented in the scriptures.

You are confusing His 'spiritual' Kingdom with His 'physical' Kingdom. Both are valid. Each has its part in the will of God, the End Times Scenario, etc.

Let's not derail this thread. It is intended to be specifically focused on the idea of the Rapture...

 

[GaryA]

By who? Where? Which verses? I haven't seen anyone provide a verse that clearly state a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on this earth, other than gross misinterpretation of scripture.

Be careful about throwing these words around --- that is like "the pot calling the kettle black"...

 

[starfield]

Yes -- now, a spiritual one; and later, a physical one... ( on the earth )


Be careful not to get confused between Jesus being the head of His Church and ruling His Kingdom ( that is spiritual ) -- and, Him ruling and reigning in His Kingdom ( that is physical ) over all the earth... ( The realm of His spiritual kingdom - at this time - encompasses only believers. The physical kingdom encompasses the whole earth. They are two very different but very valid things. They both have their part. One is fulfilled, the other is not - yet. )



You will not be able to understand all of this properly until you are able to see the 'physical' kingdom represented in the scriptures.

You are confusing His 'spiritual' Kingdom with His 'physical' Kingdom. Both are valid. Each has its part in the will of God, the End Times Scenario, etc.

Let's not derail this thread. It is intended to be specifically focused on the idea of the Rapture...

Hmm, I guess Jesus lied when He told Pilate that His kingdom is not an earthly one.

 

[Spokenpassage]

I guess I had to be in the right thread to have a debate with someone about this...?

 

[GaryA]

Hmm, I guess Jesus lied when He told Pilate that His kingdom is not an earthly one.

No - he told the truth --- about the 'spritual' kingdom that He had established at that point in time -- which was part of the reason for the First Coming of Christ.

The 'physical' kingdom will be set up at the Second Coming of Christ.

In similar fashion, the following passages illustrate that there are things partaining to the First Coming of Christ are different than those partaining to the Second Coming of Christ...


John 12:

[SUP]46[/SUP] I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. [SUP]47[/SUP] And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. [SUP]48[/SUP] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


2 Thessalonians 1:

[SUP]6[/SUP] Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; [SUP]7[/SUP] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [SUP]8[/SUP] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: [SUP]9[/SUP] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; [SUP]10[/SUP] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.


In the first coming, Jesus came to save.
In the second coming, Jesus will come to judge.

In the first coming, Jesus set up the 'spiritual' kingdom.
In the second coming, Jesus will set up the 'physical' kingdom.

 

[starfield]

In the second coming, Jesus will set up the 'physical' kingdom.

...and where is that found in the bible?

 

[starfield]

In the first coming, Jesus set up the 'spiritual' kingdom.
In the second coming, Jesus will set up the 'physical' kingdom.

Also, what stopped Jesus from setting up the 'physical kingdom' at His first coming?

 

[PlainWord]

Starfield.

Gary has it right concerning Daniel so no need for me to respond. He also has it right concerning when Jesus set up the spiritual kingdom and when He will set up the physical kingdom. The physical kingdom will be on earth and last 1,000 years. Jesus establishes this kingdom when He returns at His Second Coming which happens, "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation of those days..."

If you fully understand Revelation you see that God's people rejected His son as Messiah when He came approx 2,000 years ago. Salvation was then opened up to the Gentiles in part to make jealous His people. From the time of Jesus' ascension until now, God has hidden His face from mankind. Man has been allowed to self-rule for 2,000 years in part to show man that they are not capable of self-rule. Only God's divine rule works.

For the past 2,000 years man has failed at Governance and Religion. The first 4 seals of Revelation represent man's attempt at religion and self- governance. The dominant religions of the world today (which did not exist prior to Christ) are Catholicism (White Horse) and Islam (Green or as incorrectly translated - Pale Horse). The dominant forms of government are Communism/Socialism (Red Horse) and Capitalism/Free Markets (Black Horse). We see a union of governments and religions in the end time under the Beast (under Satan's rule). We see this all coming together rapidly now.

Few churches today actually teach God's Word and many that teach it, teach it wrong especially when it comes to prophesy. 1/3 of the world claims to be Christian or 2.2 Billion people. 1.3 Billion of this total are Catholic. Forget for a moment the many false teachings of Catholicism and not to pick on Catholics (just using them as an example); but how many of the 1.3 billion Catholics are devout and actually live Christian lives???? The same could be said of most denominations and most Christians today. But I digress...

Revelation starts with a strong rebuking of 5 of the 7 churches and dire warnings. John is taken to heaven on the Lord's Day which is AKA "The Day of the Lord." John is there to record the events he is shown on heaven and earth during the 1,000 year (EARTH YEARS) Day of the Lord. 2 Peter 3:8 makes clear that 1,000 years is as 1 day to the Lord and vice versa. This is an important lesson and truth concerning time. John sees the seals, trumpets, and bowls most of which which precede the Lord's return. He then sees the Lord return and reign for 1,000 years (Rev 20) and then describes the judgment and eternal state. All of these events are shown to John and he is in heaven on the Lord's Day.

We see this lesson of 1,000 years being as 1 Day to the Lord in other places. This lesson goes all the way back to Gen 2:17. Adam and Eve did not literally die on the day they "ate from the wrong tree." They died spiritually that day but their physical death was some 900+ years later, thus they also died literally within 1 day to God. We learn that Methuselah was the oldest recorded man at 969 years thus no man has lived 1,000 years or 1 Day to God.

Thus, if you study all the events of the Day of the Lord (too large a topic to cover here) you see that too many events take place for the Day of the Lord to be a literal day. We have Christ returning, defeating Satan's forces and reigning 1,000 years then judging with the old world destroyed and new heaven created all within this Day.

The other important thing to realize is Biblical numbers. They are so very important.

We have approx 4,002 years of Biblically recorded history of man prior to Christ's birth. Assuming math errors let's say 4,000 years. Christ died on March 31, 0033 AD (13 Nisan 3793). Notice all the Threes? We know passover was the next day 14 Nisan as they had to get Christ off the cross before sun down.

Numbers 9:5 NKJV

And they kept the Passover on the fourteenth day of the first month, at twilight, in the Wilderness of Sinai; according to all that the Lord commanded Moses, so the children of Israel did.

Leviticus 23:5 NKJV

On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Lord's Passover.

Esther 3:7 NKJV

In the first month, which is the month of Nisan...

Thus the Lord rose on Sunday, April 3, 0033 (16 Nisan 3793)

Hosea 6:

1 Come, and let us (Israel) return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us; He has stricken, but He will bind us up.

2 After two days (2,000 years) He will revive us; On the third day (next 1,000 years) He will raise us up, That we may live in His sight (Heaven eternal state).

Israel ceased being a nation in 70 AD. They became a nation again in 1948 or 1,878 years later. Israel regained possession of Jerusalem during the 6 Day War of 1967 or 1,897 years later (rounded to 2,000).

For there to be a third day, there needs to be another 1,000 year period which agrees of course with Rev 20.

4,000 Pre-Christ
+2,000 Since Christ
+1,000 Christ's Millennial Reign
-------
7,000 years Divine Completeness

 

[biscuit]

By who? Where? Which verses? I haven't seen anyone provide a verse that clearly state a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on this earth, other than gross misinterpretation of scripture.

There have been at least 6 quotes from posters with scriptural verses pertaining to Christ 1000 year reign. We cannot make you see what you don't want to see.

 

[biscuit]

Starfield.

Gary has it right concerning Daniel so no need for me to respond. He also has it right concerning when Jesus set up the spiritual kingdom and when He will set up the physical kingdom. The physical kingdom will be on earth and last 1,000 years. Jesus establishes this kingdom when He returns at His Second Coming which happens, "Immediately AFTER the Tribulation of those days..."

If you fully understand Revelation you see that God's people rejected His son as Messiah when He came approx 2,000 years ago. Salvation was then opened up to the Gentiles in part to make jealous His people. From the time of Jesus' ascension until now, God has hidden His face from mankind. Man has been allowed to self-rule for 2,000 years in part to show man that they are not capable of self-rule. Only God's divine rule works.

For the past 2,000 years man has failed at Governance and Religion. The first 4 seals of Revelation represent man's attempt at religion and self- governance. The dominant religions of the world today (which did not exist prior to Christ) are Catholicism (White Horse) and Islam (Green or as incorrectly translated - Pale Horse). The dominant forms of government are Communism/Socialism (Red Horse) and Capitalism/Free Markets (Black Horse). We see a union of governments and religions in the end time under the Beast (under Satan's rule). We see this all coming together rapidly now.

Few churches today actually teach God's Word and many that teach it, teach it wrong especially when it comes to prophesy. 1/3 of the world claims to be Christian or 2.2 Billion people. 1.3 Billion of this total are Catholic. Forget for a moment the many false teachings of Catholicism and not to pick on Catholics (just using them as an example); but how many of the 1.3 billion Catholics are devout and actually live Christian lives???? The same could be said of most denominations and most Christians today. But I digress...

Revelation starts with a strong rebuking of 5 of the 7 churches and dire warnings. John is taken to heaven on the Lord's Day which is AKA "The Day of the Lord." John is there to record the events he is shown on heaven and earth during the 1,000 year (EARTH YEARS) Day of the Lord. 2 Peter 3:8 makes clear that 1,000 years is as 1 day to the Lord and vice versa. This is an important lesson and truth concerning time. John sees the seals, trumpets, and bowls most of which which precede the Lord's return. He then sees the Lord return and reign for 1,000 years (Rev 20) and then describes the judgment and eternal state. All of these events are shown to John and he is in heaven on the Lord's Day.

We see this lesson of 1,000 years being as 1 Day to the Lord in other places. This lesson goes all the way back to Gen 2:17. Adam and Eve did not literally die on the day they "ate from the wrong tree." They died spiritually that day but their physical death was some 900+ years later, thus they also died literally within 1 day to God. We learn that Methuselah was the oldest recorded man at 969 years thus no man has lived 1,000 years or 1 Day to God.

Thus, if you study all the events of the Day of the Lord (too large a topic to cover here) you see that too many events take place for the Day of the Lord to be a literal day. We have Christ returning, defeating Satan's forces and reigning 1,000 years then judging with the old world destroyed and new heaven created all within this Day.

The other important thing to realize is Biblical numbers. They are so very important.

We have approx 4,002 years of Biblically recorded history of man prior to Christ's birth. Assuming math errors let's say 4,000 years. Christ died on March 31, 0033 AD (13 Nisan 3793). Notice all the Threes? We know passover was the next day 14 Nisan as they had to get Christ off the cross before sun down.

Numbers 9:5 NKJV

And they kept the Passover on the fourteenth day of the first month, at twilight, in the Wilderness of Sinai; according to all that the Lord commanded Moses, so the children of Israel did.

Leviticus 23:5 NKJV

On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the Lord's Passover.

Esther 3:7 NKJV

In the first month, which is the month of Nisan...

Thus the Lord rose on Sunday, April 3, 0033 (16 Nisan 3793)

Hosea 6:

1 Come, and let us (Israel) return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us; He has stricken, but He will bind us up.

2 After two days (2,000 years) He will revive us; On the third day (next 1,000 years) He will raise us up, That we may live in His sight (Heaven eternal state).

Israel ceased being a nation in 70 AD. They became a nation again in 1948 or 1,878 years later. Israel regained possession of Jerusalem during the 6 Day War of 1967 or 1,897 years later (rounded to 2,000).

For there to be a third day, there needs to be another 1,000 year period which agrees of course with Rev 20.

4,000 Pre-Christ
+2,000 Since Christ
+1,000 Christ's Millennial Reign
-------
7,000 years Divine Completeness

Excellent Post !! The best post on this topic.

 

[starfield]

There have been at least 6 quotes from posters with scriptural verses pertaining to Christ 1000 year reign. We cannot make you see what you don't want to see.

Sir, none are able to provide unequivocal passages concerning a future literal 1,000-year reign of Christ, they're simply reading in it into scripture. Why? Because premillennialism is unbiblical. Despite the fact that Jesus said His kingdom is not an earthly one, premillennialist maintain that the Jews rejected the Messianic physical kingdom that Christ was to establish at His first coming causing God to say "oops", institute the church as plan B, and postpone the kingdom until the second coming of Christ. A poster on this thread emphatically claimed that God has two kingdoms, a spiritual and physical one. That's not scriptural at all. God established one kingdom through Jesus Christ, and it is a spiritual reality about righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. When Christ returns He will deliver up the kingdom that now exists to the Father. He isn't going to set up an earthly one in Jerusalem.

I encourage you and your friends watch this video which thoroughly explains Revelation 20 binding of Satan, first resurrection, and 'thousand years':

[video=youtube;zCnM_VtYeq8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCnM_VtYeq8[/video]

BTW, "thousand years" should not be used in a literal sense. Remember that the book of Revelation is highly symbolic.

 

[starfield]

Great errors in dispensational kingdom theology:

[video=youtube;bVAgf6O0YCU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVAgf6O0YCU[/video]

Part 2: Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology - Part 2 - YouTube