Was Paul Really A False Apostle?

[aMessianic]

I don't know what others say about what makes an apostle but in my view when you have accepted Christ and been given the holy spirit you are then an apostle of Christ. Paul was perhaps the most reckless and zealous apostle and he fulfills the term to go for broke.

It is written that the purpose of an 'apostle' is to serve as a first-hand eyewitness to Messiah's life on earth, which the twelve did (Jn 15:27, Lk 24:48, Acts 1:8, cf Jn 1:14, 1Jn 1, 1Jn 4:14, 1Pet 5:1, 2Pet 1:16, Acts 4:20, Acts 1:21,22).

 

[crossnote]

I think Shaul (Paul) is misunderstood and his words twisted, a false version of his writing is the main line teaching making many question his writings.

His writing are THE ONLY writings SINGLED out as being hard to understand, people twist all Scripture but his are the only called hard to understand.

2 TImothy 3:15-16, "And recognize that the longsuffering of Yahweh our Savior is salvation; just as our beloved brother Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

And when his writings are almost exclusively studied and quoted and Messiah words and the other Scriptures are ignored it is nearly a guarantee to misunderstand and twist Shaul's (Paul's) words.

You should at least post the correct reference

 

[David_1]

I agree there are different emphasis' between books but you do believe they are all equally inspired, don't you?

Yeah agreed.

 

[aMessianic]

1. Accepted and I don't view all caps as yelling as this is not AOL
2.Paul's use of him being a Pharisee was to address that he was brought before the council because of his belief in the Resurrection not to mention that many of the Pharisees including Nicodemus believed on Jesus, but kept it hidden for fear of reprisal. Paul's other uses of the word was to show how strict he was under the law and in accordance with the law, yet lacked what was really needed for life and that was Jesus (the jest that is)

Red herring. The point is not why or the circumstances as to why he was claiming to be a Pharisee. The point I am trying to make is the simple fact that he claimed to be a Pharisee. Why he claimed so is irrelevant to my argument.

3. Two or more witness is in light of dealing with trespasses against a brother (you took out of context to prove your point)

I have a claim against this apparent trespass, so this is not out of context.

4.Paul was an equal with Peter and this was not church discipline

No it wasn't. It was private discipline, which Messiah addressed.

5.Never said Paul was infallible as he even claims the title of chief sinner

1Jn 3:9.

6.Tell Jesus that giving your head for the cause is not proof of anything (martyrs crown)

Is it possible that someone may preach "Jesus" but is in reality preaching a false "Jesus"? cf Mt 24:5

7. I would agree this was a little mouthy, but in good sport
8. Ananias states clearly that it was Jesus that gave the vision so either he is lying or Luke was misinformed

I believe Luke was misinformed. The account re: Ananias is not substantiated in the other three accounts.

9. The logic stands...if Luke's History in Acts cannot be trusted as valid then the book of Luke is just as invalid

I believe Luke's history book is accurate to what he was told, but not necessarily accurate to the reality of events that actually occured.

 

[Stephen63]

Gee, Paul was a fake? Really? It's totally laughable for someone to say Paul wasn't an apostle out of one side of their mouth, & then confirm the whole book of Acts as true scripture out of the other side of their mouth.

 

[aMessianic]

Gee, Paul was a fake? Really? It's totally laughable for someone to say Paul wasn't an apostle out of one side of their mouth, & then confirm the Book of Acts as legit out of the other side of their mouth.

So, it's laughable to quote Satan's words as lies, when I believe the book of Job is legit?

In other words, does the legitimate book of Job contain lies (of Satan)?

 

[crossnote]

Some people in their zeal to be 'messianic' give a poor taste to the Messianic movement. I know many Messianics who thoroughly embrace Paul's writings as inspired Scripture.

 

[Graybeard]

just belief in de Bible an da Spirit will testify wid ya spirit....

 

[aMessianic]

Amessianic, the epistles and letters of Paul are commentary of what the gospel is.

I agree that Paul's writings are one Pharisee's commentary on Scripture

I don't know where you get your information of what Christianity is, if it's not established by Jesus through His apostles including Paul.

I was in evangelical and Protestant Christianity for 10+ years until I seriously began to tackle head-on the difficulties often glossed over in churches, which led to my current beliefs. I have no doubt that Yehoshua/Jesus is Messiah

He may have been just a man, but he was a man of God taught by God...

This has yet to be proven to me

 

[Simiel]

Paul sure is, yep when he was Paul he became what he is. But Paul never said what he .......

 

[Spokenpassage]

I agree that Paul's writings are one Pharisee's commentary on Scripture
I was in evangelical and Protestant Christianity for 10+ years until I seriously began to tackle head-on the difficulties often glossed over in churches, which led to my current beliefs. I have no doubt that Yehoshua/Jesus is Messiah

This has yet to be proven to me

What exactly do you believe besides a non-pauline messianic?

And who is your teacher or what drew you to believe this? Or what studies did you glean this teaching from?

Are you willing to share these things with us...

 

[phil112]

..................I was in evangelical and Protestant Christianity for 10+ years until I seriously began to tackle head-on the difficulties often glossed over in churches, which led to my current beliefs..........

You say you're 24. 10 minus years you would have been 14. Those numbers aren't helping your credibility you know.

 

[aMessianic]

What exactly do you believe besides a non-pauline messianic?

What do you mean?

And who is your teacher or what drew you to believe this? Or what studies did you glean this teaching from? Are you willing to share these things with us...

Absolutely. Most of what I believe today is based on first-hand studies I've done prayerfully, almost daily, over the past three years, in the original languages (mostly Greek).

 

[aMessianic]

You say you're 24. 10 minus years you would have been 14. Those numbers aren't helping your credibility you know.

I accepted Messiah when I was in my early teens, and I was then in evangelical Christianity. What part of this is not credible?

 

[secularhermit]

There are many on CC who seem to be following this line of doubting/questioning Paul. Hebrew Roots/Judaizers.

I don't know anywhere where it says people will suddenly find the truth in the end, but rather they will lose it in the end. Denying Paul's apostleship is a falling away.

You think what you think (and believe).

My trust is not in a man, but in GOD and in HIS appointed one: The Lord Jesus.

 

[phil112]

It is written that the purpose of an 'apostle' is to serve as a first-hand eyewitness to Messiah's life on earth..............

Where is this written?

 

[aMessianic]

Where is this written?

In the part of my post you cut off when quoting me

 

[Spokenpassage]

What do you mean?

Do you belong to the Hebrew Roots movement?

Absolutely. Most of what I believe today is based on first-hand studies I've done prayerfully, almost daily, over the past three years, in the original languages (mostly Greek).

Are those studies with commentaries or secret interpretation you believe God is telling you through those texts?

 

[aMessianic]

Do you belong to the Hebrew Roots movement?

No.

Are those studies with commentaries or secret interpretation you believe God is telling you through those texts?

No "secret interpretations".

 

[Spokenpassage]

No.

No "secret interpretations".

So then yes with commentaries? I just want to know where you get your information exactly....what commentators?