The virtues of sarcasm

[Splat]

Hi all,

Here is a question for all of you. What are the virtues of sarcasm? Would Jesus use it? What do people think?

I noticed this as a side discussion in the following thread

http://www.christianchat.com/showthread.php?t=6974&page=2

where certain individuals were arguing for it.

Would be interested in your thoughts

Splat.

 

[socperkins]

I think Jesus would tell somebody straight out if they were being ridiculous. He never said to the pharisees "Yeah, that'll get you to heaven "

 

[Leilaii425]

I think Jesus would tell somebody straight out if they were being ridiculous. He never said to the pharisees "Yeah, that'll get you to heaven "

i do think jesus probably had a sense of humor though.

 

[Definition_Christ]

Who is our example?

Ephesians 4
17 Therefore I say this - indeed, in union with the Lord I insist on it: do not live any longer as the pagans live, with their sterile ways of thinking.
18 Their intelligence has been shrouded in darkness, and they are estranged from the life of God, because of the ignorance in them, which in turn comes from resisting God's will.
19 They have lost all feeling, so they have abandoned themselves to sensuality, practicing any kind of impurity and always greedy for more.
20 But this is not the lesson you learned from the Messiah!
21 If you really listened to him and were instructed about him, then you learned that since what is in Yeshua is truth,
22 then, so far as your former way of life is concerned, you must strip off your old nature, because your old nature is thoroughly rotted by its deceptive desires;
23 and you must let your spirits and minds keep being renewed,
24 and clothe yourselves with the new nature created to be godly, which expresses itself in the righteousness and holiness that flow from the truth.

Is there any Scripture that uses sarcasm?

 

[wwjd_kilden]

How can sarcasm be a virute?!

sarcasm is usually meant to make your point in a "looking down on" way or to hurt/mock someone. though it can be used for fun among freiends, I can't really see it as a positive thing in itself.... for any perosn

 

[Splat]

i do think jesus probably had a sense of humor though.

ok, so what is sarcasm? I took the following from the free web dictionary http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sarcasm

sar·casm (särkzm)
n.
1. A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound.
2. A form of wit that is marked by the use of sarcastic language and is intended to make its victim the butt of contempt or ridicule.

 

[Graybeard]

and that answers your question....no!

 

[Leilaii425]

so you all think jesus never laughed or joked around ...... in his 30 some years on earth

 

[Splat]

Well, Leila425's signature is a good case in point. Not trying to pick on Leila or anything but I think her quotation from Mark Twain is a good example of what this thread is about

 

[Leilaii425]

No its cool, you have my permission to pick away. Your right my signature is sarcastic, but i like it

 

[socperkins]

I'm sure Jesus had a sense of humor and laughed all the time, but you don't need to use sarcasm to laugh.

 

[Dread_Zeppelin]

I dont think sarcasm's a sin, but when done wrong it's pretty generic humor.

 

[DieuMerci]

Im not engrossed in this kind of so called humor, so i can't tell you all the nuances of meaning for the term, but genrally speaking it is lying. I refer you to the prophet: niether was guile found in his mouth. No, Jesus never told a lie. The justification for this kind of so called humor is often that it's obviously not the truth, and so no one is decieved by it, but those who have a sense of humor understand. I don't believe satan's lies anymore, but that doesnt, mean they arent lies. He is still a liar and the father of it, and this kind of joking is forbidden by the bible, with witnesses exceeding the two to three required for the matter to be established, even so every single witness of the scriptures are true, when not distorted. I refer you to the king: He who lies to his nieghbor then says 'i was joking', shoots flaming arrows at him. Those of us with the armor of God have the shield of faith to quench these kind of weapons. Even so, our brethren in Christ are not our enemy! Why then is this kind of so called humor prevalent in the Church? Are we ignorant of the scriptures brethren, that we don't know that under grace and as the second party of the new covenant were to live as wise? Even so, not all are studying to show themselves approved, or theyre hearers only and not doers. I understand that the common pattern of saying something silly, and then saying 'just kidding' is usually not classified as sarcasm...sarcasm tends to not even try and justify itself, by adding that kind of statement, but leaves the naive open to be decieved. Either way these kind of coarse jokes, are not permitted. As much as the joy of the LORD is our strength, and joy is part of the fruit of the spirit, i refer you to the king: Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished. You're joy might be exceeding because of this so called humor, but the means is vain, and so the joy will perish. I refer you to the apostle: Refrain from silly(or foolish) talk.

Did Jesus Christ the Son of God lie to men and women? NO.

Cast this kind of sillyness and deception away from you.

 

[MahogonySnail]

A lie is an intentional telling of a mis-truth or falsehood. Condemning various methods of litery expression is as silly as condemning Christian Gospel music for its connections with voo-dooism.

Jesus used the natural language of his day, he used sarcasm, he used humor, irony, sattire, exaggeration, he used common phrases that they had in the time. Jesus used all these methods of speaking in his disputes and so did the apostle Paul and the disciples.

Jesus was not merely reading out of an encyclopedia or text book but unfortunately many christians today reduce Jesus's personality to just that - a record player playing a set of doctrines in a monotone voice . I fear that Jesus, for many, resembles more the Dalai Lama than the Jesus of the bible.

If you want examples in scripture of Jesus's use of Mockery/Impersonation, Sarcasm and Exaggeration and Name calling, this website gives a few:

http://jamescary.blogspot.com/2009/03/jesuss-use-of-humour-sarcasm-and-other.html


We also find sarcasm and mocking in the old testament, with Elijah and the prophets of Baal (or was that Elisha), and even those verses calling the king of Babylon or Tyre being morning stars and falling from heaven, is mocking, sarcastic language. As is being discussed re: the name of lucifer/satan in other threads. Obviously the author didn't really think that the king of Babylon or Tyre was actually in heaven or fallen from their, but the babylon and tyre in their pride, thought themself better than they were.

Sarcasm and mocking is a way to bring people down from their perch. So just as it was used inthe old testament, we can use it in the new testament if the situation calls for it.
Admittedly, sarcasm such as Mark 7:9, is only rendered clearly like that in modern translations like the MKJV:
And He said to them, Do you do well to set aside the commandment of God, so that you may keep your own tradition?
He's telling them in a sarcastic voice, how well are you really doing by keeping your own traditions instead of God's commands?

This sort of language is lost in the KJV because it doesn't render it with the ?? at the end.


There's a few ways we can use sarcasm or rhetorical questions or exaggeration. Here's a few examples, saying

"You think you're so good you're going to heaven, don't you?".

is preferable to saying "you are really going to hell if you don't turn to Christ".


"You say you don't need Jesus, do you think you're a better or less sinful person than me or anyone else?"

is better than saying "you're a dirty rotten sinner in need of Jesus"

Saying:
"I bet you've never sinned in your life... *roll eyes* "

is better than saying "Your a sinner, repent!"

Saying:

"Sure, that time you stole something wasn't REALLY so bad was it?, it's only breaking God's law..which God said the punishment for was death"

is better than saying "you broke God's law, the punishment is death".


Most unbelievers think they live a good life and don't need Christ. Putting the emphasis on their inability to get into heaven is better than putting the emphasis on them going to hell. That can be done with sarcasm where it can help reverse the topic of conversation. It can also help them get out of the "I'm the victim" way of answering Christians, when they recount all their past experiences with Christians.

Sarcasm can also help you get under their skin. Why is it good to get under their skin? Because they'll be fuming all day over what you said and thinking about what you said. They'll be thinking of your words about the Gospel maybe for the whole day, on and off. If you merely came to them "in love" (sic), and said "Accept JEsus into your heart, love you kissy kissy" and left, they'd more likely forget quicker and pass you off as one of those crazy spaced out Christians. But, it all depends on who you are talking to.

 

[Definition_Christ]

Admittedly, sarcasm such as Mark 7:9, is only rendered clearly like that in modern translations like the MKJV:
And He said to them, Do you do well to set aside the commandment of God, so that you may keep your own tradition?
He's telling them in a sarcastic voice, how well are you really doing by keeping your own traditions instead of God's commands?

And how do you know what type of voice He was using?.. Lol wow .. I've never seen anyone try to justify sarcasm with Scripture before.

"You think you're so good you're going to heaven, don't you?".

is preferable to saying "you are really going to hell if you don't turn to Christ".


"You say you don't need Jesus, do you think you're a better or less sinful person than me or anyone else?"

is better than saying "you're a dirty rotten sinner in need of Jesus"

Saying:
"I bet you've never sinned in your life... *roll eyes* "

is better than saying "Your a sinner, repent!"

Saying:

"Sure, that time you stole something wasn't REALLY so bad was it?, it's only breaking God's law..which God said the punishment for was death"

is better than saying "you broke God's law, the punishment is death".


Most unbelievers think they live a good life and don't need Christ. Putting the emphasis on their inability to get into heaven is better than putting the emphasis on them going to hell. That can be done with sarcasm where it can help reverse the topic of conversation. It can also help them get out of the "I'm the victim" way of answering Christians, when they recount all their past experiences with Christians.

Sarcasm can also help you get under their skin. Why is it good to get under their skin? Because they'll be fuming all day over what you said and thinking about what you said. They'll be thinking of your words about the Gospel maybe for the whole day, on and off. If you merely came to them "in love" (sic), and said "Accept JEsus into your heart, love you kissy kissy" and left, they'd more likely forget quicker and pass you off as one of those crazy spaced out Christians. But, it all depends on who you are talking to.

And unless you are being led by the Holy Spirit to be sarcastic while evangelizing to someone go for it...

But if you are being led by your flesh to be sarcastic to someone while evangelizing than DON'T do it..

More than likely you will offend someone when being sarcastic to them while evangelizing not only are most Christians stereotyped to think they know everything under the sun but....Mocking someone is just a turn off right away. I am surprised you would recommend to do such a thing MahogonySnail..

 

[MahogonySnail]

I've shown examples in the bible of men of God mocking their opponents from both old and new testament. Argue with those.

And how do you know what type of voice He was using?.. Lol wow .. I've never seen anyone try to justify sarcasm with Scripture before.

See the MKJV of that verse. It is posed as a question, and is nothing but sarcastic or rhetorical.


All of what I've said is in the context of as the Spirit leads. It is merely to show that we shouldn't be afraid of using those ways of expression in conversation if we are led to.

And do make sure how you view Jesus is like the Jesus of the bible, and not the Dalai Lama.

 

[Definition_Christ]

Lol, not quite sure what you meant by that last statement but I'm assuming it was sarcasm. I heard some preacher going on about we should look for Scriptures to crucify our flesh not satisfy it.

Gal 2:20 (NKJV)
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.


I like the way the complete Jewish bible puts it...
Gal 2:20
When the Messiah was executed on the stake as a criminal, I was too; so that my proud ego no longer lives. But the Messiah lives in me, and the life I now live in my body I live by the same trusting faithfulness that the Son of God had, who loved me and gave himself up for me.

 

[MahogonySnail]

My point was, the Dalai Lama is always kind, loving, peaceful, wouldn't hurt a fly, never say anything bad, and always laugh at everything said to him with a smile. Sadly, many think Jesus was, or is the same. Or perhaps more like santa claus. Jesus spoke in nautral language. His mannerisms weren't contrived or fake. He was mad, angry , happy, humorous, jovial, and all of the above as you'd expect from a normal human being.

I can't help but think this idea of avoiding offense at any cost or use of literary expressions such as sarcasm to be anything other than contrived false humility following in the image of the Dalai Lama or santa claus, or whoever your best earthly example of high morals, perfect emotions and personality is.

 

[Definition_Christ]

My point was, the Dalai Lama is always kind, loving, peaceful, wouldn't hurt a fly, never say anything bad, and always laugh at everything said to him with a smile. Sadly, many think Jesus was, or is the same. Or perhaps more like santa claus.

Are you suggesting Jesus was not walking in love all the time? And you will follow up with an example of Jesus flipping over tables at the temple?

 

[DieuMerci]

Do you really think those instances of Christ's condemnation and woe were sarcasm or rhetoric? It was literal, even in its allegorical instances, what i mean Mahogony, is that he said what was true. He didnt use a trick, or any unjust condemnation, unrighteous mocking, or false accusations, to say what he had heard of the Father, he didnt tell the opposite of the truth inorder to practice some kind of falsley so called science. What needs to be stopped here is this calling trickery and deception tact, and wise. As it is written: Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter. We're to deal wisely with outsiders; I turn now to the king: A fool makes fun of his neighbor. About Elijah, I agree that he used a righteous humor there. But we have to balance that scripture with Solomon's counsel by using mercy, Mahagony. If this verse from Mark, is to be rendered this way, then point out to me how even then, it justifies sarcasm? He asked a question that without faith has an obvious answer. But i tell you the truth, Mahogony, if they had answered him with faith, he would have recieved them with joy. That verse is not to be understood as though he's commending them for their insolence sarcastically. In the form youve presented, he's asking them what they have to say for themselves. Not asking a rhetorical question. So let's not think that God's omniscience, and Christ's lesser than God's, yet greater than our's awareness, somehow results in God's exclusivity, as though Jesus wasn't sent to reconcile us to God, that we might enter into his grace. He loves us Mahagony, he wants to have a relationship with us as a Father to his sons, he's not concieted in his abundance of knowledge so that he forsakes his love and turns his face from our faith. He is willing that all should repent, so what makes you think that if he were to hear a righteous reply, he wouldnt respect the faith of the answerer? (This is what I mean; the question i just asked wasn't rhetorical or sarcastic. Im asking you a question)