Hell? Does it exist?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hikikomori
  • Start date Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
H

Hikikomori

Guest
This thought terrifies me beyond what words can put forth.
I pray from the bottom of my soul that God would not allow such a place to exist. But, as a believer in an afterlife/heaven, why would I disregard talk about a hell... They should both be, theoretically, just as much "possible"
But what is hell? Is it really this state, where you "burn" for all eternity? Physical pain? Or could it be a metaphore for a state such as being separated from God/Heaven? I don't know, and it terrifies me.
I am not a perfect person. I try my best, but I'm led astray more then I should, and I'm struggling with the thought over and over again in my head: "If I died today, would God forgive me? Heaven or Hell?" I'm not sure myself If I'm worthy.
What are your thoughts on Hell? Do you believe in it? What does "Hell" mean to you?
 
This thought terrifies me beyond what words can put forth.
I pray from the bottom of my soul that God would not allow such a place to exist. But, as a believer in an afterlife/heaven, why would I disregard talk about a hell... They should both be, theoretically, just as much "possible"
But what is hell? Is it really this state, where you "burn" for all eternity? Physical pain? Or could it be a metaphore for a state such as being separated from God/Heaven? I don't know, and it terrifies me.
I am not a perfect person. I try my best, but I'm led astray more then I should, and I'm struggling with the thought over and over again in my head: "If I died today, would God forgive me? Heaven or Hell?" I'm not sure myself If I'm worthy.
What are your thoughts on Hell? Do you believe in it? What does "Hell" mean to you?

It is both....

Death means (separation)
Hell is where men are placed when they are separated from God to await the final judgment of the lost which will be the lake of fire where the smoke of their torment shall ascend fro all eternity before the throne of God.
 
But isn't that just a terrefying thought? Even if one would be sure of going to heaven when he/she dies; would one not feel sadness and sympathy for all the people who have to experience that pain? For all eternity? Personally I believe there is no sin great enough that would (In my opinion) justify such punishment.
I'm not trying to say you're in any way "wrong", dcontroversal . Once again, I'm not sure myself. But it seems to horrible for me to even begin to imagine.
 
But isn't that just a terrefying thought? Even if one would be sure of going to heaven when he/she dies; would one not feel sadness and sympathy for all the people who have to experience that pain? For all eternity? Personally I believe there is no sin great enough that would (In my opinion) justify such punishment.
I'm not trying to say you're in any way "wrong", dcontroversal . Once again, I'm not sure myself. But it seems to horrible for me to even begin to imagine.


It is a horrible place and a just reward for those who take the death of the righteous son of God and cast it back into his face. Hell was made originally for the devil and his angels who left their first estate. God would have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and has done all possible except believe for us..even though the ability to believe is also a gift from God.

God will remove all memories of the wicked and we will see things in the same manner that God sees things. God has turned all men to hell and expects them to fear which is the beginning of knowledge, but a fool will despise wisdom an instruction. I will also add that if you truly know Jesus in spirit and truth then there is nothing to fear, but fear itself--to somewhat quote a former President.

True love casteth out fear!
 
Would you mind elaborating that a bit? Sorry, I'm a bit slow. ;)

Hell is real, hell is literal and God has told us about it (turned us to face it) by the scriptures and the expected response is for men to turn to God, embrace the truth of God and come online as a born again believer by acknowledging the truth of (redemption) in Jesus so as to avoid hell.

This is the short version...a lot of scriptures together teach the above (condensed) truth. I hope that helps you understand a bit. :)
 
Hell is real literal fire, jesus warns about it. One sin is all it takes to go to there. Hell is temporary though those who go there go there after there death, and the lake of fire is there final rest(torment 4ever)
 
Well, according with Revelation 20:10 yes, there is hell.
The Lord Almighty - Jesus - came on Earth and according with John 3:16,17 and 1:12 you may be His child and following Him don't need to be worried about hell.

 
Thank you for explaining, dcontroversal
I do have some concern about that, though. If man are to face God, and follow him because they do not wish to experience hell; do they not chose to follow him for selfish reasons? I'm sure if that was the case, he would be able to see through the scheme. Or maybe I missunderstood?
 
Hi Hikikomori,

you might remember me from your introduction thread :) . I suppose an initial clarification would be that despite some confusion that happens (due to the fact resurrection is often collapsed into 'going to heaven' though such a phrase itself never occurs in the NT), the traditional Christian view is no one is in 'hell' now (if we take this translation to refer to what is the final punishment shown in the imagery of Revelation 'the lake of fire and sulphur', 'second death', possibly 'Gehenna' depending on how one interprets the use of apocalyptic language how it is used by Jesus in the gospels, and whether this was a warning to Israel of His time about impending disaster if they didn't turn from their path which happened in the events of AD 70 and AD 135). That final judgement does not happen until the resurrection, when God through Christ completes His rescue of this world from all that damages it, all evil and de-humanizing actions and completes His purposes outlined in Genesis, of His rule over the earth via humans who are His image, reflecting fully at last His loving, wise, creative, dynamic and compassionate stewardship into creation and summing up the praises of creation back to God all through the truly human one, Jesus the Messiah in and through whom God reigns, the one through Whom all things were made in the beginning :) . Only in that judgement that completes the judgement that began in the Passion (crucifixion) and resurrection is brought to it's fullness and the world is set to rights at last, and the creation breathes a sigh of relief as it finally able to be what it is meant to be, as the sons of God are revealed when Christ appears and the resurrection of the dead that started with Him is completed and well have the immortal, incorruptible, transformed bodies that He enjoys. Only then will there be a final judgement of the living and the dead as part of this.

There are number of views in orthodox Christianity that deal with what happens to those those judged to be outside Messiah and not redeemed at that point, the one that has grown to most prominence has been the eternal torment view, which has various ways of describing how that is, the conditional immortality view, which could be also termed the annihilation view (they are destroyed, sometimes after some punishment), and what has been more recently termed evangelical universalism (all will ultimately be restored, though some will need either refinement or the revelation of the destructive nature of their sins which will led to repentance). All views were held during the first 300 years of Christian church, and none have been ruled heresy (important not to confuse the universalism described above held by such church fathers as Gregory of Nyssa - often called the Father of fathers - with Unitarian universalism, pluralistic universalism etc) and today the orthodox and evangelical parts of Christianity are vigorously debating the issue and looking at the Scriptures again in debating the issue.

However this is not really a full answer for you, and to be honest, this is one of the hardest and most difficult areas of Christianity to face and discuss, because although it can be discussed academically which ever view you hold to (even if you lean to an inclusivist view - again this isn't pluralism - rather it takes as positive that people can follow the light they have, and God judges on this and that this can be taken as a positive statement and if they follow this in faithfulness through that, in the resurrection they will see in Jesus the target of their faith and embrace that, there is more to it, but I'm tired, and tend to this area :) .

But as I said, this is a heart-reading and difficult issue, even with the universalism view (and it would depend on what the second death involved, but it wouldn't be fun). And I can see you personal concerns, which shows exactly why this isn't really a detached subject to discuss with most people, but rather one of to consider and discuss with deep compassion and consideration for the people and person you are talking to.

As such, I'm not sure if this is the best place to gain a personal understanding, and perhaps of other issues involved, your salvation, of the knowledge that in Jesus, the forgiveness of sins that He achieved for the nations, and the call to turn to believing faith in Him as Lord and Saviour of the world and such ideas. And I'm not sure where you are on that, I can certainly discuss more from my view on how things stand.

In anycase, I think more a discussion or talk with someone might help more, I don't mind if you want to pm me, and am happy to discuss these issues and ideas back and forth, perhaps even better find a experienced Christian near you can trust and who is both open to honest seeking questions, and is able and ready to compassionately walk beside you and you explore these things, as God guides you in all Truth.

And finally remember God is not a ogre, He does Love you, personally and He is drawing to Him, and you can trust Him (even as you are uncertain regarding Him ;).]

Take care, and may God bless you with His wisdom, insight, love and compassion and guide you on straight paths to His heart in this difficult time for you, removing your fears :D
 
Thank you again, NightRevan, for your insightfull and helpfull information.
God bless!
 
Thank you for explaining, dcontroversal
I do have some concern about that, though. If man are to face God, and follow him because they do not wish to experience hell; do they not chose to follow him for selfish reasons? I'm sure if that was the case, he would be able to see through the scheme. Or maybe I missunderstood?

No Problem Hikikomori as it was my pleasure..

Having said that I will also add...

Fear is the beginning of knowledge....and is the starting place, but in time fear is cast out by love as the reason we choose to serve God for all the things which he has done for us. It takes time to grow into this love that will be shed abroad in our hearts...I don't look at it like it is selfish, but rather what God requires.
 
Hi Hikikomori,

you might remember me from your introduction thread :) . I suppose an initial clarification would be that despite some confusion that happens (due to the fact resurrection is often collapsed into 'going to heaven' though such a phrase itself never occurs in the NT), the traditional Christian view is no one is in 'hell' now (if we take this translation to refer to what is the final punishment shown in the imagery of Revelation 'the lake of fire and sulphur', 'second death', possibly 'Gehenna' depending on how one interprets the use of apocalyptic language how it is used by Jesus in the gospels, and whether this was a warning to Israel of His time about impending disaster if they didn't turn from their path which happened in the events of AD 70 and AD 135). That final judgement does not happen until the resurrection, when God through Christ completes His rescue of this world from all that damages it, all evil and de-humanizing actions and completes His purposes outlined in Genesis, of His rule over the earth via humans who are His image, reflecting fully at last His loving, wise, creative, dynamic and compassionate stewardship into creation and summing up the praises of creation back to God all through the truly human one, Jesus the Messiah in and through whom God reigns, the one through Whom all things were made in the beginning :) . Only in that judgement that completes the judgement that began in the Passion (crucifixion) and resurrection is brought to it's fullness and the world is set to rights at last, and the creation breathes a sigh of relief as it finally able to be what it is meant to be, as the sons of God are revealed when Christ appears and the resurrection of the dead that started with Him is completed and well have the immortal, incorruptible, transformed bodies that He enjoys. Only then will there be a final judgement of the living and the dead as part of this.

There are number of views in orthodox Christianity that deal with what happens to those those judged to be outside Messiah and not redeemed at that point, the one that has grown to most prominence has been the eternal torment view, which has various ways of describing how that is, the conditional immortality view, which could be also termed the annihilation view (they are destroyed, sometimes after some punishment), and what has been more recently termed evangelical universalism (all will ultimately be restored, though some will need either refinement or the revelation of the destructive nature of their sins which will led to repentance). All views were held during the first 300 years of Christian church, and none have been ruled heresy (important not to confuse the universalism described above held by such church fathers as Gregory of Nyssa - often called the Father of fathers - with Unitarian universalism, pluralistic universalism etc) and today the orthodox and evangelical parts of Christianity are vigorously debating the issue and looking at the Scriptures again in debating the issue.

However this is not really a full answer for you, and to be honest, this is one of the hardest and most difficult areas of Christianity to face and discuss, because although it can be discussed academically which ever view you hold to (even if you lean to an inclusivist view - again this isn't pluralism - rather it takes as positive that people can follow the light they have, and God judges on this and that this can be taken as a positive statement and if they follow this in faithfulness through that, in the resurrection they will see in Jesus the target of their faith and embrace that, there is more to it, but I'm tired, and tend to this area :) .

But as I said, this is a heart-reading and difficult issue, even with the universalism view (and it would depend on what the second death involved, but it wouldn't be fun). And I can see you personal concerns, which shows exactly why this isn't really a detached subject to discuss with most people, but rather one of to consider and discuss with deep compassion and consideration for the people and person you are talking to.

As such, I'm not sure if this is the best place to gain a personal understanding, and perhaps of other issues involved, your salvation, of the knowledge that in Jesus, the forgiveness of sins that He achieved for the nations, and the call to turn to believing faith in Him as Lord and Saviour of the world and such ideas. And I'm not sure where you are on that, I can certainly discuss more from my view on how things stand.

In anycase, I think more a discussion or talk with someone might help more, I don't mind if you want to pm me, and am happy to discuss these issues and ideas back and forth, perhaps even better find a experienced Christian near you can trust and who is both open to honest seeking questions, and is able and ready to compassionately walk beside you and you explore these things, as God guides you in all Truth.

And finally remember God is not a ogre, He does Love you, personally and He is drawing to Him, and you can trust Him (even as you are uncertain regarding Him ;).]

Take care, and may God bless you with His wisdom, insight, love and compassion and guide you on straight paths to His heart in this difficult time for you, removing your fears :D

I guess Jesus was mistaken when ho spoke of hell in the present tense in Luke 16?
 
Thanks, that made alot more sense to me. I get it now, and It seems logical :cool: (Though I still am opposed to any kind of eternal torment)
 
This thought terrifies me beyond what words can put forth.
I pray from the bottom of my soul that God would not allow such a place to exist. But, as a believer in an afterlife/heaven, why would I disregard talk about a hell... They should both be, theoretically, just as much "possible"
But what is hell? Is it really this state, where you "burn" for all eternity? Physical pain? Or could it be a metaphore for a state such as being separated from God/Heaven? I don't know, and it terrifies me.
I am not a perfect person. I try my best, but I'm led astray more then I should, and I'm struggling with the thought over and over again in my head: "If I died today, would God forgive me? Heaven or Hell?" I'm not sure myself If I'm worthy.
What are your thoughts on Hell? Do you believe in it? What does "Hell" mean to you?

Hikikomori, you need not worry. There is a hell, but it is not a place where people are tortured and burned alive forever and ever. The Bible clearly teaches that:

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4

"The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth: in that very day that his thoughts perish." Psalm 146:4

"In death there is no remembrance of thee." Psalm 6:5

"For there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave (sheol, i.e., hell) whither thou goest." Eccl. 9:10

They "go down into silence." Psalm 115:17

So, don't let anyone tell you that the wages of sin is eternal life, but in the hell of Catholic and immortal soul teachers. Hell (the grave) is a place of "silence," a place where "the dead know not anything." It is not a place where billions of deceased scream and writhe in pain as they are tortured and burned alive for hundreds and thousands of years now. There is much more to know regarding the false immortal soul doctrine. If you would give me a PM I can steer you in the right direction.
 
Hikikomori, you need not worry. There is a hell, but it is not a place where people are tortured and burned alive forever and ever. The Bible clearly teaches that:

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4

"The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth: in that very day that his thoughts perish." Psalm 146:4

"In death there is no remembrance of thee." Psalm 6:5

"For there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave (sheol, i.e., hell) whither thou goest." Eccl. 9:10

They "go down into silence." Psalm 115:17

So, don't let anyone tell you that the wages of sin is eternal life, but in the hell of Catholic and immortal soul teachers. Hell (the grave) is a place of "silence," a place where "the dead know not anything." It is not a place where billions of deceased scream and writhe in pain as they are tortured and burned alive for hundreds and thousands of years now. There is much more to know regarding the false immortal soul doctrine. If you would give me a PM I can steer you in the right direction.

Kind of hard to steer when you are already in the ditch...
 
Well seeing that Jesus spoke more of hell than heaven, I'd say its real.
 
I guess Jesus was mistaken when ho spoke of hell in the present tense in Luke 16?

OK I don't think this is the place for this kind of discussion. But I will give a few clarifications, firstly that referred to Hades (which the LXX - Greek version of the Old Testament often quoted in the NT had translated Hebrew sheol) and is the present place and/or state of the dead. Secondly as such even if totally taken literally and as talking about actually people (which gets you into trouble because is Abraham's bosom literal or allegorical, I think since Abraham then appears in it, we all agree that is allegorical or metaphorical expression at least) it is prior to the resurrection and the final judgement so it still says nothing to it.

Finally going further on that point, the major view is that it is a parable, which many views then on what if anything it tells us about hades. This was an adaptation of common Jewish (and specifically Pharisaic folklore) going around at that time, Josephus reports a similar story in his History of the Jews, and it appears elsewhere, what is unique in Luke is a shifting of the roles in some of the common Pharisaic versions, it's the unclean beggar, virtually a Gentile who ends up in Abraham's bosom and the rich man ie upright Pharisee follower in traditional versions that end up in hades. And there are yet many more interpretations then this, and more worrying is that this Pharisaic story at least has no roots in the OT, it origins seem to track of Egypt, and similar pagan sources.

But in any case, the views around it evangelical scholarship alone are highly mixed and disputed, with most saying it's a parable, but as to what actual details it can tell us of Hades, if anything is unknown. The Lord Himself seems to use to to point to His own coming resurrection (and as the story/parable was part of a series addressing and confronting the Pharisees) to point to the fact that even that would not convince them (the Pharisee opposing Him and His mission).

And that is all I'll say here, like I said, I don't think this thread is the best to answer Hikiomori's concerns, so I'll bow out, just saying which ever view you hold, is is a highly difficult passage with many views on it in evangelical Christianity, take that as you will.

God bless and thank you for the question :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
OK I don't think this is the place for this kind of discussion. But I will give a few clarifications, firstly that referred to Hades (which the LXX - Greek version of the Old Testament often quoted in the NT had translated Hebrew sheol) and is the present place and/or state of the dead. Secondly as such even if totally taken literally and as talking about actually people (which gets you into trouble because is Abraham's bosom literal or allegorical, I think since Abraham then appears in it, we all agree that is allegorical or metaphorical expression at least) it is prior to the resurrection and the final judgement so it still says nothing to it.

Finally going further on that point, the major view is that it is a parable, which many views then on what if anything it tells us about hades. This was an adaptation of common Jewish (and specifically Pharisaic folklore) going around at that time, Josephus reports a similar story in his History of the Jews, and it appears elsewhere, what is unique in some of these sometimes appears to be the shifting the roles, it's unclean beggar, virtually a Gentile who ends up in Abraham's bosom and the rich man ie upright Pharisee follower in traditional versions that end up in hades. And there are yet many more interpretations then this, and more worrying is that this story as no roots in the OT, it origins seem to track of Egypt, and similar pagan sources.

But in any case, the views around it evangelical scholarship alone are highly mixed and disputed, with most saying it's a parable, but as to what actual details it can tell us of Hades, if anything is unknown. The Lord Himself seems to use to to point to His own coming resurrection (and as the story/parable was part of a series addressing and confronting the Pharisees) to point to the fact that even that would not convince them (the Pharisee opposing Him and His mission).

And that is all I'll say here, like I said, I don't think this thread is the best to answer Hikiomori's concerns, so I'll bow out, just saying which ever view you hold, is is a highly difficult passage with many views on it in evangelical Christianity, take that as you will.

God bless and thank you for the question :)

Parable? Parables did not have the names of real people in them. and on top of that..Jesus must not be that bright to teach about a place using a place that doesn't exist.