Jesus, just like God, doesn't change. He didn't become a slayer of men upon his ascension. He is, and always will be, Jesus. Undivided. Whole. Certain.
Jesus war is a spiritual one, not a war of blood and bone.
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Jesus, just like God, doesn't change. He didn't become a slayer of men upon his ascension. He is, and always will be, Jesus. Undivided. Whole. Certain.
Jesus war is a spiritual one, not a war of blood and bone.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
Jesus teaches that you are to protect the less fortunate, and under persecution. If you see helpless people being killed we are not to sit back and not help them, and unfortunately talking does not always work.
No, but if I kill another man for killing, then I am just as guilty as him. If I hate a man for hating, then I'm just as guilty as him. If I spite a man for spite, then I'm just as guilty as him.
Etc etc etc.
Overcome evil by love, I believe was the point.
If people are being killed around me, I'd help them run. Make distractions. do all in my power. But the moment I kill someone myself, I become the same as the killers.
I don't think any court of law would find that argument suitable to judging the same way as a murderer someone who defended their life by killing. And I think most of human civilization would disagree. Motive is important. And it's crucial to every case.
The idea that killing once in any situation makes you the same as one of those "bad guys" (i.e. a murderer) is an idea impressed upon us by liberal Hollywood who knows that killing a human life is a grave act and would not want its viewers to associate that act with any light-hearted and loveable hero. Because killing someone is not the greatest for publicity, but it can serve a practical function in the real world.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
The word chosen to depict first degree murder out of the seven possible verbs in Hebrew for kill by Biblical authors is Rāṣaḥ which is restricted to mean deliberate and premeditated murder (Ps 94:6; Prov 22:13; Is 1:21; Jer 7:9; Hos 4:2; 6:9) apart from killing beasts for food (Gen 9:3), self-defense and defending oneself in a nighttime attack (Ex 22:2), accidental killings (Deut 19:5) or even manslaughter (Num 35:16, 25).
To state that killing an animal for food, self-defense, or being involved somehow in an accidental death turns a person into a murderer is a blatantly false assertion.
To state that killing an animal for food, self-defense, or being involved somehow in an accidental death turns a person into a murderer is a blatantly false assertion.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
The World Health Organization (WHO) 2012 'Inter-country Comparison of Mortality for Selected Cause of Death' European Detailed Mortality Database (DMDB) statistics show that Norway has a gun ownership rate many times that of the United Kingdom: yet Norway has a much lower gun murder rate than the United Kingdom has.
Many nations with far higher gun ownership rates have lower gun murder rates than the United Kingdom which has about the strictest gun control laws in the world and the United States doesn't list in the top ten countries by firearm-related death rate."
Many nations with far higher gun ownership rates have lower gun murder rates than the United Kingdom which has about the strictest gun control laws in the world and the United States doesn't list in the top ten countries by firearm-related death rate."
I agree with this statement, and the one after it. Motive is more than important, motive is the talk of the heart.
BUT, hearts can be shaped. Jesus, I imagine, was far beyond having motives of retribution and self-defense. He gave his life without a care for his own. While a court of law might deem something a certain way, and that's a good thing, since humans are fallible, prone to mistakes etc etc, law isn't the same as righteousness.
It would be lawful for say, a person to bring someone to court on charges of discrimination. It would be righteous not to even feel discriminated against, rather to have pity on the person for the prison of distinctions they live in.
It would be lawful, for say, a person to defend his life against an attacker, it would be utterly righteous for that same person to take a blade in the chest and put his hand on his attacker's cheek and say 'I forgive you', for the 'victim' to realize the anger that leads the blade, and have sympathy, empathy and love for his attacker.
It would be lawful for a wrongly persecuted holy man to have his followers and himself attack his persectors to save their lives, but it would be righteous for the holy man to stop the violence, knowing what it does to people, and to compassionately heal his attacker's ear and be taken on his way.
It would be lawful for a holy man to be retributive during his condemnation by Roman soldiers, but it would be righteous for him to forgive those others and to ask the same forgiveness from his God.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
It is still a war none the less, and in the old testament did God not send his chosen out to conquer the land He gave to them.
UK stats only take in England and Wales. I live in NI.
Our rate is lower than England. There are more murders by firearm in the US per capita than total murders in the UK per capita.
I explained a lot of this in big detail a few posts back, with references.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
I agree with you on that statement. They are not a murderer, and if someone is trying to kill you and you defend yourself and end up killing them that is called self defense which many have been found not guilty on those grounds in our courts. Plus the old testament even speaks about hunting, and the only thing it makes a point about is when you kill the animal you are to drain the blood from it before you process it and eat it. Killing animals for food is not wrong.
Do whatever you think is best. But I think you'll find that most people who are so enraged to want to murder a random stranger will not stop at stabbing you once and slowly enough at that to occasion for you to say that you forgive them or to have any witness at all. Most likely if they're close enough to get at you with a knife they'd fly upon you, stab you multiple times and leave your body in the street to go on a killing rampage afterwhich they'd kill themselves. In which case your death would serve no purpose.
However if you have time to prepare yourself for martyrdom, you could just as easily stop and point a gun at them and say, "Sorry, dude. I don't want to shoot you, but I will if you come any closer." I think that would just as easily serve as a witness as anything else. And hopefully it would be warning enough that no one would get hurt, receive the death penalty or spend life in prison.
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kennethcadwell
Guest
This may offend some but do you forget the scriptures in the old testament where God says do not be afraid if he who just destroys the body, but of me who can destroy both body and spirit. Plus how many times did God send, or done himself in destroying or driving out others. Plus it is a spiritual war Jesus is leading right now, but when you read Revelations it talks about how He rains down fire to destroy those on earth who have disobeyed Him. That destroys body and spirit of those individuals, in which the body consists of flesh and blood. God and Jesus don't want to do that, but they bring it on themselves.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
No. You are wrong. The UK stats I posted encompass the island of Great Britain, the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland, and many smaller islands. In other words, ALL of the United Kingdom.
United Kingdom – Rate of Gun Homicide per 100,000 People
If you want to look at sections of the UK only, you can do so at the same site.
Now you're correct that there are more murders per capita in the U.S. than the UK; however, the FBI statistics clearly show that about 70% of that is young black males murdering other young black males. It's not representative of our society overall whatsoever.
A bonus is that we don't get hauled off to prison and fined every time we say something that someone else finds offensive.
And note that our violent crime rate is half of what yours is. Interestingly, the UK is also second in the world for drug offenses per capita. Rape is 125% more common in the UK than in the U.S..
United Kingdom – Rate of Gun Homicide per 100,000 People
If you want to look at sections of the UK only, you can do so at the same site.
Now you're correct that there are more murders per capita in the U.S. than the UK; however, the FBI statistics clearly show that about 70% of that is young black males murdering other young black males. It's not representative of our society overall whatsoever.
A bonus is that we don't get hauled off to prison and fined every time we say something that someone else finds offensive.
And note that our violent crime rate is half of what yours is. Interestingly, the UK is also second in the world for drug offenses per capita. Rape is 125% more common in the UK than in the U.S..
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
It's righteous to kill a murderer in self-defense. You're saving lives when you do so. When I used to travel in poor urban areas, I'd leave the door of the motel room open at night. The reason for doing this is that if an armed criminal came along, they would choose my room instead of some poor innocent person or family's room.
I could hold them at gunpoint until the police arrived or if they were illegally armed (and every felon with a firearm IS illegally armed) and went for their weapon, dispatch them if necessary.
It was done out of love... in line with the second greatest commandment of being a good neighbor.
I've never seen a criminal that was legally armed. Every single one I ever saw was an illegally armed felon. Criminals will always have guns even if they have to manufacture them in their garage. That's why making us good citizens defenseless is really the sin here because you're putting innocent lives at risk of illegally armed criminals.
I could hold them at gunpoint until the police arrived or if they were illegally armed (and every felon with a firearm IS illegally armed) and went for their weapon, dispatch them if necessary.
It was done out of love... in line with the second greatest commandment of being a good neighbor.
I've never seen a criminal that was legally armed. Every single one I ever saw was an illegally armed felon. Criminals will always have guns even if they have to manufacture them in their garage. That's why making us good citizens defenseless is really the sin here because you're putting innocent lives at risk of illegally armed criminals.
I was talking about Northern Ireland. Not the rest of the UK.No. You are wrong. The UK stats I posted encompass the island of Great Britain, the north-eastern part of the island of Ireland, and many smaller islands. In other words, ALL of the United Kingdom.
United Kingdom – Rate of Gun Homicide per 100,000 People
If you want to look at sections of the UK only, you can do so at the same site.
Now you're correct that there are more murders per capita in the U.S. than the UK; however, the FBI statistics clearly show that about 70% of that is young black males murdering other young black males. It's not representative of our society overall whatsoever.
A bonus is that we don't get hauled off to prison and fined every time we say something that someone else finds offensive.
And note that our violent crime rate is half of what yours is. Interestingly, the UK is also second in the world for drug offenses per capita. Rape is 125% more common in the UK than in the U.S..
As for rape:
28.6 per capita in the USA. 23.2 in the UK. From the US bureau of justice.
violent crime ; 386 per capita in the USA. 310 per capita in the UK. From the US bureau of justice.
Stop making things up. Go back and look at the statistics. Respond in context.
It is respective of your society, unless you think black people don't count as part of your society.
The post is about guns. And as I've shown, gun crime, gun murder, knife crime, and knife murder, are much worse in the US. As is violent crime, and rape.
All my statistics came from police reports and trusted newspapers. My US statistics came form the FBI website. My NI statistics from our police reports.
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doulos
Guest
That is the conclusion I was hoping people would come to when I asked the question. Thank you for putting on your thinking cap and answering crrectly. As history has shown multiple times disarming the people is all about controlling them. You can control and force defenseless people. An unarmed population is a sitting duck for tyrannical governments and criminals. Sadly many have forgotten history!
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kennethcadwell
Guest
AgeofKnowledge i have people in my family that have felonies on their record, but because of the type of felony they did they filed through the court after 5-7 years and got their gun rights back, and one even got his gun rights back soon as he got of parole. Just thought i would share that.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Jhana,
I'm not making anything up. I pulled my statistics from NationMaster as it offers a quick look of comparison between countries you specify.
NationMaster - Crime stats: United Kingdom vs United States
Post a link clearly showing that the U.S. Bureau of Justice and FBI asserting both the U.S. and UK figures that you're asserting so I can qualify it.
And stop being nonsensical. Obviously if you have a very small group in your nation that are responsible for 70% of all murders in your country then you respond with logic and tailor your solution to deal with that very small group.
You don't pass laws to imprison everyone not involved. I realize that logic is not your forte but even you should be able to grasp common sense.
I'm not making anything up. I pulled my statistics from NationMaster as it offers a quick look of comparison between countries you specify.
NationMaster - Crime stats: United Kingdom vs United States
Post a link clearly showing that the U.S. Bureau of Justice and FBI asserting both the U.S. and UK figures that you're asserting so I can qualify it.
And stop being nonsensical. Obviously if you have a very small group in your nation that are responsible for 70% of all murders in your country then you respond with logic and tailor your solution to deal with that very small group.
You don't pass laws to imprison everyone not involved. I realize that logic is not your forte but even you should be able to grasp common sense.
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