An Honest Discussion of Feminism

[Misty77]

“Authentic feminism requires all doors to be unlocked, encouraging women to make choices that best suit them. Leftists can have nothing to do with that, working instead to demonize choices women might make that involve family,”

To fix feminism, . . . young women need to be shown the difference between genuine feminism and leftist politics. Conservatives, too, play a role, as . . . they should push back and “claim the mantle of feminism.”

[the above are excerpts from Liberal-Turned-Conservative Talk Radio Host Excoriates Modern-Day Feminism]

[video=youtube;ZR9FHKKbMZo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR9FHKKbMZo[/video]

Please keep all comments respectful, intellectual, and occasionally humorous. =)

 

[starfield]

With the advent of women's liberation movement came the rise of birth-control methods and abortion, women wanting to act and look like men. It has probably done more damage in society than good.

 

[Misty77]

With the advent of women's liberation movement came the rise of birth-control methods and abortion, women wanting to act and look like men. It has probably done more damage in society than good.

Did you watch the 5-minute video or read that article I linked? There is a lot more to true feminism than reproductive rights. Original feminists were pro-life.

 

[Jhana]

“Authentic feminism requires all doors to be unlocked, encouraging women to make choices that best suit them. Leftists can have nothing to do with that, working instead to demonize choices women might make that involve family,”

To fix feminism, . . . young women need to be shown the difference between genuine feminism and leftist politics. Conservatives, too, play a role, as . . . they should push back and “claim the mantle of feminism.”

[the above are excerpts from Liberal-Turned-Conservative Talk Radio Host Excoriates Modern-Day Feminism]

[video=youtube;ZR9FHKKbMZo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR9FHKKbMZo[/video]

Please keep all comments respectful, intellectual, and occasionally humorous. =)

This woman quotes George Orwell in her favor, tells women they shouldn't be defined by anyone's views, then tries to tell women where they went wrong and how they should be. It's backwards. Funny that Orwell was quoted, cause I've got an Orwell quote of my own.

'All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others'.

The woman here states 'do women want to have casual sex and think nothing of it, like men do?' Firstly, a very, very bad generalization to make. Some men are like this, some aren't.

The word 'no'. 'Of course, many times women said yes, when they should have said no' she says. Should have? Nobody 'should have' done anything. You want choices? Get rid of this 'should have'.

'Women, who fought not to be treated as sex objects, have become more objectified than ever'. Again, a blanket statement, and another 'more equal than others' moment. Men are objectified as sex objects too. Some women do it, some don't. Some men do it, some don't.

Men in music videos are muscular and attractive, scantily clad and of a certain physique and look that doesn't represent reality. Just like the women are.

I get her motive, but the means are all mashed up.

If you want real equality, ditch 'feminism' and take up 'equal rights for humans, regardless of age, race, sex or whatever else'. 'Feminism' is only after one side of the argument.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

If you want real equality, ditch 'feminism' and take up 'equal rights for humans, regardless of age, race, sex or whatever else'. .

If we were all on a cruise ship, and it starts to sink with limited life boats available titanic style.....women and children go first. If a military draft comes up, only the men go. That's not equality or equal rights, but that's how it should be. Women should be exempt from mandatory military service, and they should be the first out in a dangerous situation. Not that you'll ever see any activist promote "true equality" like that, that's definitely not what they want....lol, I'm just pointing out what a ridiculous idea equality actually is.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

She says "Women civilize men, it's what we're supposed to do" but then doesn't really show a flip side of what men do that is positive for women. Add that her comment of: 'do women want to have casual sex and think nothing of it, like men do?'. I dunno... I'm uncomfortable with that generalization. It shows a... disdain for men? If something similar had been said about women by a man, would this woman have taken issue with it? I imagine so. Even though she mentions not seeing men as competitors, I still don't see her encouraging mutual respect toward men themselves, which is what feminism is sorely missing.

I think we'd be better off just ditching anything to do with feminism (new or old or original) and starting completely over by appreciating what both genders have to offer one another in their differences.

 

[Jhana]

If we were all on a cruise ship, and it starts to sink with limited life boats available titanic style.....women and children go first. If a military draft comes up, only the men go. That's not equality or equal rights, but that's how it should be. Women should be exempt from mandatory military service, and they should be the first out in a dangerous situation. Not that you'll ever see any activist promote "true equality" like that, that's definitely not what they want....lol, I'm just pointing out what a ridiculous idea equality actually is.

For once, I agree with you. And my point is never that men and women are ''the same''. We aren't the same. What we are is two sexes with different hormones, different views etc etc. I once read 'men are from mars and women are from venus', and it opened my eyes a bit.

What I WAS saying though, is that the idea of modern 'feminism' or 'masculism', is a bit like Animal Farm. The pigs promoted equality for all the animals but really the pigs were only after the pigs. If we want the idea of equal human rights for every person we'd be better to promote equal rights for every person rather than some lopsided argument that only cares about the female perspective.

I'm a man of many viewpoints. An angle-weigher. As you know, I do the best I can to take every element into consideration. If we want equal rights for all humanity, it'd be best to take such a view; of all people, rather than solely what females need/want/desire.

 

[Toska]

She says "Women civilize men, it's what we're supposed to do" but then doesn't really show a flip side of what men do that is positive for women. Add that her comment of: 'do women want to have casual sex and think nothing of it, like men do?'. I dunno... I'm uncomfortable with that generalization. It shows a... disdain for men? If something similar had been said about women by a man, would this woman have taken issue with it? I imagine so. Even though she mentions not seeing men as competitors, I still don't see her encouraging mutual respect toward men themselves, which is what feminism is sorely missing.

I think we'd be better off just ditching anything to do with feminism (new or old or original) and starting completely over by appreciating what both genders have to offer one another in their differences.

Beautiful words, Grace-Like-Rain. I feel like you took my feelings on this subject and very eloquently posted them. I agree with your words completely.

God made us the way we are for a reason. It is not so one gender can be superior over the other. If the two sexes would combine their collective skills, their strengths and weaknesses, what each gender brings to the table would compliment each other. Yes, my husband is stronger than me so he does the heavy lifting. That does not make me weak, I just carry the lighter things and, together, we accomplish our goal and live happily knowing we have done the best that we can to please God.

I think we need to erase the line in the sand and break down the walls that are being built between men and women. We are much stronger for Christ if we work together.

 

[biscuit]

This woman quotes George Orwell in her favor, tells women they shouldn't be defined by anyone's views, then tries to tell women where they went wrong and how they should be. It's backwards. Funny that Orwell was quoted, cause I've got an Orwell quote of my own.

'All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others'.

The woman here states 'do women want to have casual sex and think nothing of it, like men do?' Firstly, a very, very bad generalization to make. Some men are like this, some aren't.

The word 'no'. 'Of course, many times women said yes, when they should have said no' she says. Should have? Nobody 'should have' done anything. You want choices? Get rid of this 'should have'.

'Women, who fought not to be treated as sex objects, have become more objectified than ever'. Again, a blanket statement, and another 'more equal than others' moment. Men are objectified as sex objects too. Some women do it, some don't. Some men do it, some don't.

Men in music videos are muscular and attractive, scantily clad and of a certain physique and look that doesn't represent reality. Just like the women are.

I get her motive, but the means are all mashed up.

If you want real equality, ditch 'feminism' and take up 'equal rights for humans, regardless of age, race, sex or whatever else'. 'Feminism' is only after one side of the argument.

That gets a big AMEN

 

[Misty77]

Thanks, y'all, for sharing your thoughts in a respectful manner. I love that we can have a dialogue on a controversial subject without tearing each other to shreds.

I didn't agree with every point she made in the video. There were a lot of generalizations, but that's almost to be expected when covering a broad topic in only 5 minutes. I do think the overall concept of both genders working together while acknowledging our differences was great as well as pointing out the problems of new wave feminism. Instead of demonizing the movement, she wants to change it. As believers, shouldn't we be more willing to redeem rather than to condemn?

 

[biscuit]

Thanks, y'all, for sharing your thoughts in a respectful manner. I love that we can have a dialogue on a controversial subject without tearing each other to shreds.

I didn't agree with every point she made in the video. There were a lot of generalizations, but that's almost to be expected when covering a broad topic in only 5 minutes. I do think the overall concept of both genders working together while acknowledging our differences was great as well as pointing out the problems of new wave feminism. Instead of demonizing the movement, she wants to change it. As believers, shouldn't we be more willing to redeem rather than to condemn?

Sorry Misty, the word "feminism" is a NASTY word in this country because it has caused so much destruction, even many women who do associate with the ideology, are smart enough to distance themselves from it verbally in public. Only a small % of women "have it all baby" since the movement began. The majority of feminist women are suffering like most American women at large. IMHO, only 25% of American women "have it all baby," and the majority 75% are just trying to hang on to what they have or keeping out of/escape poverty.

 

[Misty77]

Sorry Misty, the word "feminism" is a NASTY word in this country because it has caused so much destruction, even many women who do associate with the ideology, are smart enough to distance themselves from it verbally in public. Only a small % of women "have it all baby" since the movement began. The majority of feminist women are suffering like most American women at large. IMHO, only 25% of American women "have it all baby," and the majority 75% are just trying to hang on to what they have or keeping out of/escape poverty.

Problems in society are never due to only one source. Many factors contribute to the current state of our families: welfare, secularism, greed, apathy, irresponsibility, etc. Some of them, like welfare, started off with good intentions. The origins of feminism were connected to the abolition of slavery and the eradication of forced abortions, which I'm sure you have no objection to. Only some people enjoyed liberty in our country : feminism only asked for that same liberty to be applied equally.

I would ask you to please share your opinion with an open mind instead of a disdainful tone.

 

[RedTent]

She says "Women civilize men, it's what we're supposed to do" but then doesn't really show a flip side of what men do that is positive for women. Add that her comment of: 'do women want to have casual sex and think nothing of it, like men do?'. I dunno... I'm uncomfortable with that generalization. It shows a... disdain for men? If something similar had been said about women by a man, would this woman have taken issue with it? I imagine so. Even though she mentions not seeing men as competitors, I still don't see her encouraging mutual respect toward men themselves, which is what feminism is sorely missing.

I think we'd be better off just ditching anything to do with feminism (new or old or original) and starting completely over by appreciating what both genders have to offer one another in their differences.

I like the idea of our need to start off just ditching every single thing that the world and media teaches about feminism and starting over.

If we are to put on Christ, it doesn't mean we adjust our thinking to Christ, it means to put on Christ instead of the world, to die to ourselves and put Christ thinking in our minds instead.

If we did that, we would search scripture only for what being male and what being female means. We would find that they are equal, neither is more important than the other. They work together in harmony putting the other's welfare above their own. Just as in any teamwork we know of, one is the leader and the other the helper, for two leaders or two helpers don't work as well. Both roles are of equal importance. There must be justice in their dealings. If they work separately instead of in marriage, they work under Christ. If they work in marriage, then the two are to act as one so anything that affects one affects the other. There are lots of things to learn about male and female, and it isn't about male or about female, but about both.

 

[biscuit]

Problems in society are never due to only one source. Many factors contribute to the current state of our families: welfare, secularism, greed, apathy, irresponsibility, etc. Some of them, like welfare, started off with good intentions. The origins of feminism were connected to the abolition of slavery and the eradication of forced abortions, which I'm sure you have no objection to. Only some people enjoyed liberty in our country : feminism only asked for that same liberty to be applied equally.

I would ask you to please share your opinion with an open mind instead of a disdainful tone.

May I remind you that I was there when those Women Liberation Movement started , and I was about 13 yo and took a curious interest in it along with the Civil Rights Movement. I was living very close to NYC at that time which was a very active bed for both movements. And one of the reason why the WLM went well at the beginning because the issues were truly "family oriented" and men agreed with them and supported the causes ... and after a few years it just took an ugly twist (hardcore feminists) and a war between the sexes virtually broke out. So don't tell me about the WLM and feminists because I was there and you weren't. I supported the WLM and it causes until it took the "ugly turn."

 

[Misty77]

May I remind you that I was there when those Women Liberation Movement started , and I was about 13 yo and took a curious interest in it along with the Civil Rights Movement. I was living very close to NYC at that time which was a very active bed for both movements. And one of the reason why the WLM went well at the beginning because the issues were truly "family oriented" and men agreed with them and supported the causes ... and after a few years it just took an ugly twist (hardcore feminists) and a war between the sexes virtually broke out. So don't tell me about the WLM and feminists because I was there and you weren't. I supported the WLM and it causes until it took the "ugly turn."

What you are describing is new wave feminism, which we share some similar views about. The feminist movement began at least a century before you were born. It seems like you had some bad experiences, but don't heap undeserved blame upon so many. If you want to rant, then you have plenty of woman - hating threads to do it on. If you don't know how to calmly engage in disagreeing dialogue, then please don't sully this thread.

 

[biscuit]

What you are describing is new wave feminism, which we share some similar views about. The feminist movement began at least a century before you were born. It seems like you had some bad experiences, but don't heap undeserved blame upon so many. If you want to rant, then you have plenty of woman - hating threads to do it on. If you don't know how to calmly engage in disagreeing dialogue, then please don't sully this thread.

Well you have a great day and good luck with your thread because you won't have many supporters ... men or women.

 

[secularhermit]

I don´t know how I can solve the problem "society" (although I know it quite INDIVIDUAL, and subjective).

I don´t know leftist, conservative, locked or unlocked I am, but I know I don´t live where many peple NOW live (or lived).

Just allow me, dear Misty77, to post this link where I don´t need to speak. The movie you would watch belongs to the culture you might know, the reasons you may use -as a sword- and here you would feel what FEMINISM is in both sexes (and what MACHISM is for man and women).

Soon, I plan to upload one more youtube video that was removed from "there", and I hope that it would settle down the matter for whomever who has known those things on the streets, as a social experiment (I´d like to thank my half-brother, Aby)

 

[secularhermit]

Well you have a great day and good luck with your thread because you won't have many supporters ... men or women.

Hi, Biscuit!

As a Christian and a man, I don´t know WHY I would favor one GENDER movement or the other (machism). Perhaps, as a man, I would be an activist of Femen. Ha! Ha! (Just being honestly secular and mundane) but that is not what I should do (Hope this honest joke be viewed with mercy).

I left a LINK, in case you would like to see people reaction AGAINST (or in favor) to HUGS (a thing that can be used to "prove" -socially- how feminist or machist society is).

FREE HUGS Experiment!!! Appearance VS. Gender???

 

[secularhermit]

What you are describing is new wave feminism, which we share some similar views about. The feminist movement began at least a century before you were born. It seems like you had some bad experiences, but don't heap undeserved blame upon so many. If you want to rant, then you have plenty of woman - hating threads to do it on. If you don't know how to calmly engage in disagreeing dialogue, then please don't sully this thread.

May I say that the feminist Amazon "myth" started BEFORE I was born?

Many think the problem with Miriam was racial ( Num 12:1 ) but just see how GOD did away with it ( Num 12:10, 15 ).

And here (Num 12:2) some may see it was leadership what THEY were seeking...

How do I know Feminism (or machism) are not seeking the same, except more power and additional rights?

I expect no answer! Just asking to ponder what it is in ANY of both sides.

 

[secularhermit]

Problems in society are never due to only one source. Many factors contribute to the current state of our families: welfare, secularism, greed, apathy, irresponsibility, etc. Some of them, like welfare, started off with good intentions. The origins of feminism were connected to the abolition of slavery and the eradication of forced abortions, which I'm sure you have no objection to. Only some people enjoyed liberty in our country : feminism only asked for that same liberty to be applied equally.

I would ask you to please share your opinion with an open mind instead of a disdainful tone.

As an HONEST discussion... What are the factors you are so proud to be pro-feminism?

There you have mentioned:

1) "welfare, secularism, greed, apathy, irresponsibility, etc."

2) "welfare"

As a Chrisitan -as a secular Christian- I would like to dig more on those reasons, particularly, to see why we need the church to be more secularized, because I thought we where set freed from those paganic issues.