Who Were The Jusaizers? Are You One? Do You Know Anybody That Is?

[GregoryC]

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Do you not know that everyone who is baptized into Christ Jesus was baptized into His death? Therefore since we have died with Him we believe also we are raised with Him to walk in newness of life according to the Spirit not in the oldness of the letter.
We have been released from the law through death to serve God in the Spirit. The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

The old covenant passed away with the death and resurrection of Christ. If you wish to remain under the law given to the Jews and not gentiles that is your loss.

 

[chubbena]

Freedom from what? The law of sin and death.
You sin, you die.
Now someone has died in your place so you don't have to.
Now you are not under the law of sin and death because He has paid the penalty so you are free to do whatever? That's very disrespectful of the one who died for you.

 

[GregoryC]

Freedom from what? The law of sin and death.
You sin, you die.
Now someone has died in your place so you don't have to.
Now you are not under the law of sin and death because He has paid the penalty so you are free to do whatever? That's very disrespectful of the one who died for you.

I guess if you are still under the law what you are saying is true. You sin you die. Sounds a lot like an eye for an eye.

What part of walking in newness of life according to the Spirit is disrespectful?

 

[KittenofMelchisedek]

I knew someone who would intentionally break something of mine, like a flower something cheap, and he'd say, "do you still love your brother? will you reject the biblical command of love?!?!" then when I told him I didn't want him around if he was going to keep breaking my stuff, and he 'proclamed judgement' that I was a bad hostess, and the next day texts me, "will you fulfill the biblical command to reconcile???" poke poke....poke poke poke

this is my own emotional problem that this attitude offends me so...I remember beating up the kids at school in like elementary school who would tease the smaller kids. I just can't bear taunting. It makes me think, oh, I know how to make this stop. But the Lord says to turn the other cheek. Where does this stop. Should I still turn the other cheek if the persons gonna kill me, or what if they would rape me do I just let them, because Jesus said turn the other cheek, and that's what the enemy is going to be quoting while he's hurting you. Don't return evil for evil. I'm just going to start hurting your kids now, you didn't make an idol of them did you, because I'm going to take one of these little ones. Poke poke. If you keep letting him hurt you, he will make it into a game, to see what he can get away with. This is what the Judaizers did, they were there to poke the new Christians and get them to give up their crown.

This is why we can't talk about anything to do with the Old Testament without getting attacked by the enemy...it's just the other side of the coin. On one side of the coin is people trying to convince you to get circumcised and be a jew, the other side of the coin wants the OT discarded. The rim of the coin is the narrow path....which in the OT case is obey EVERY WORD of your Master, but don't go doing extra crap he didn't mention and that has no good reason (like getting circumcised, or putting the fire of God in a censor and putting incense on it, etc).

This post is not meant to be directed at Elin or anyone else on cc...it's just my venting about our enemy. =P

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

The old covenant passed away with the death and resurrection of Christ. If you wish to remain under the law given to the Jews and not gentiles that is your loss.

Then what you are saying is that the Covenant, which is a legal agreement, made with the Hebrews at the base of Mt. Sinai is null and void, even though our Father said out of his own mouth it was an everlasting (eternal) covenant? If the Ten Commandments are spoken out of his mouth to be an everlasting covenant, and that covenant has been somehow now altered or done away with, how does that make your god the same today, yesterday, and forever? If he can't keep his word from the beginning, spoken from his own mouth to his chosen people, how can we trust him to keep his word today?

 

[GregoryC]

Some clarification for those who misunderstand that being set free from the law leads to lawlessness.

Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

The Spirit that each believer was sealed with the day of their conversion continually convicts, teaches, leads, corrects and comforts everyone who is born again. This is called practical sanctification. An ongoing process each believer experiences till the day they are in the presence of Jesus Himself.

 

[KittenofMelchisedek]

We no longer die for breaking the law, Jesus was a once and for all sacrifice that completed the new covenant, then he said

this is the blood of the new covenant

the one who loves me will obey my commandments


even the women who would anoint the body of the Lamb, rested first on the Sabbath ACCORDING TO THE COMMANDMENTS

the newness is that we continue to be fashioned in the likeness of the Author of the law, so that by the Spirit we do not have to keep breaking it...and just a reality that our we are DEAD before we accept Christ, so the newness of life is obvious in that we aren't the same people any more. we are healed HalleluYah!

 

[KittenofMelchisedek]

saved by Christ

sanctified by the working of the Spirit...the evidence thereof is the following of the Law, including loving God and neighbor


=)

 

[GregoryC]

We were alive to sin but dead to God before accepting Christ. Now we are dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Dead to the law.. Alive in the Spirit...


As Titus 2 11-14 states it is the grace of God that teaches us to deny all ungodliness.

 

[Elin]

That's good to hear, because I thought you would have opposed Lk 7:50 and Mk 10:52 to Mt 19:17

as they are so often done.

It's really good to see you not setting the Scriptures against themselves.

Thanks!

When others follow His whole counsel do not speak evil of them is all I'm asking.

I hear you, but have you seen me do that?

 

[GregoryC]

Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

A dead man is no longer under the laws of do's and don'ts period. We are new Spiritual creatures led by the Spirit not the letter of the law.

 

[chubbena]

Read again the letter to the Romans.
Firstly he said "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold THE LAW." Rom 3:31
Secondly he said "the law is HOLY, just and good." Rom 7:12
Thirdly he said "We know that the law is SPIRITUAL; but I AM UNSPIRITUAL, sold as A SLAVE TO SIN." Rom 7:14
Paul endorsed the law three times before he proclaimed that THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS has made him free from THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. Rom 8:2
Did he say he's set free from the LAW which he said is SPIRITUAL?
No, he said he's set free from the law of SIN AND DEATH. He did not have to suffer the consequence of sinning because Christ has died for his sins.
Walking in newness of life according to the Spirit obeying the law, which Paul said is spiritual.
Walking in newness of life means one is no longer a slave of sin.
And the law tells us what sin is. c.f. Rom 3:20.

 

[GregoryC]

Chubbena my friend how can I make it plain to you? You are misunderstanding the letter to the Romans. Yes we uphold the law through the Spirit. Of course the law is Holy just and good, but powerless to save. It is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.

 

[Elin]

KittenofMelchisedek]Oh and by the way,
I pray this thread was edifying, because
ELIN intentionally wasted time that could have been spent on something else in this massive tug of war called life. I can't condemn her, because I have done the same thing. I used to go to sites like this or on AOL back in the day go to christian chat and stir up the people. I used my intelligence to waste the intelligence of others because I was an unwitting PAWN in the enemies hand. I pray the Lord deliver her!

Perhaps you could edify me by pointing out what you see was a waste of time.

Elin, I see you wasting time by
repeatedly quoting long passages just to say one dismissive word. Like you need to stamp everything that you see as having been seen by you and now we can move on. It's been a totally one sided debate with people being mostly agreed and you
stirring things up by saying things that are either twisting someones words or
jumping to conclusions or
writing off what was said with one verse plucked out of its context.

It would he helpful if you could give examples.

You seem to have the knowledge of the truth, but you appear to be using your intelligence to detract from what the truth is. You give forceful instructions to obey your chosen method of debate. For no reason other than your own pleasure, and we like brothers and sisters watching you go by the way, have patiently offered correction with scripture. Sure
you can SAY that I'm wrong, and you know,
this is conjecture,
but I'm not going to waste time going back and quoting you 100 times, so I can't prove it,

I wouldn't have thought this edifying, but you did ask for it...so I hope you aren't too terribly offended.

Thanks. . .and I'm sorry to hear you are unable to support your assertions with demonstration of them.

But that is the only way assertions can have merit.

For anybody can say anything about anything, when there is no method
for determining the truth of the matter.

Perhaps it would be best not to assert the things you can't demonstrate.

 

[chubbena]

Chubbena my friend how can I make it plain to you? You are misunderstanding the letter to the Romans. Yes we uphold the law through the Spirit. Of course the law is Holy just and good, but powerless to save. It is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.

Perhaps you are misunderstanding me and a few others. My last post said the law tells us what sin is. My post #222 said Someone has died for our sin so we don't have to. That someone is Christ. Nowhere have I ever said law could save. We good?

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

Chubbena my friend how can I make it plain to you? You are misunderstanding the letter to the Romans. Yes we uphold the law through the Spirit. Of course the law is Holy just and good, but powerless to save. It is our schoolmaster to lead us to Christ.

You realize you are adding to this scripture?

Firstly he said "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold THE LAW." Rom 3:31
Secondly he said "the law is HOLY, just and good." Rom 7:12
Thirdly he said "We know that the law is SPIRITUAL; but I AM UNSPIRITUAL, sold as A SLAVE TO SIN." Rom 7:14

What you just said is not what the scripture says, but your own understanding. It's important to be clear the difference between opinion and fact.

The law is powerless to save us, but that in no way means that somehow the spirit will magically keep us from sinning. Sin is a choice, and by your definition of things free-will is done away with. The spirit cannot take away your choice, it can only convict you after the fact and bridge the way to forgiveness. Sin is clearly defined in scripture as the Ten Commandments. Paul kept the laws, all twelve disciples kept them, the Ancestral Fathers kept them, every Prophet kept them, and Messiah himself was the embodiment of them. Are you telling me that your way is better than the way of the wisest Biblical minds in history, and even better than the lifestyle of Messiah?

 

[chubbena]

I hear you, but have you seen me do that?

I'm asking everyone in general. Not you in particular. And I hate (reads too lazy) to go back and examine each letter you or anyone else posted. After all we might be neighbors in the new heaven and new earth so....

 

[Karraster]

I knew someone who would intentionally break something of mine, like a flower something cheap, and he'd say, "do you still love your brother? will you reject the biblical command of love?!?!" then when I told him I didn't want him around if he was going to keep breaking my stuff, and he 'proclamed judgement' that I was a bad hostess, and the next day texts me, "will you fulfill the biblical command to reconcile???" poke poke....poke poke poke

this is my own emotional problem that this attitude offends me so...I remember beating up the kids at school in like elementary school who would tease the smaller kids. I just can't bear taunting. It makes me think, oh, I know how to make this stop. But the Lord says to turn the other cheek. Where does this stop. Should I still turn the other cheek if the persons gonna kill me, or what if they would rape me do I just let them, because Jesus said turn the other cheek, and that's what the enemy is going to be quoting while he's hurting you. Don't return evil for evil. I'm just going to start hurting your kids now, you didn't make an idol of them did you, because I'm going to take one of these little ones. Poke poke. If you keep letting him hurt you, he will make it into a game, to see what he can get away with. This is what the Judaizers did, they were there to poke the new Christians and get them to give up their crown.

This is why we can't talk about anything to do with the Old Testament without getting attacked by the enemy...it's just the other side of the coin. On one side of the coin is people trying to convince you to get circumcised and be a jew, the other side of the coin wants the OT discarded. The rim of the coin is the narrow path....which in the OT case is obey EVERY WORD of your Master, but don't go doing extra crap he didn't mention and that has no good reason (like getting circumcised, or putting the fire of God in a censor and putting incense on it, etc).

This post is not meant to be directed at Elin or anyone else on cc...it's just my venting about our enemy. =P

I've often pondered the true meaning of Messiah's words, this particular one many times. "turn the other cheek"

Looking into Hebrew culture answers many questions about the Word, after all, it was written by Jews in their day and culture, how can Gentiles now days understand what was a common thing to them back then?. It would be like them (2000) years ago trying to know what a microwave or Ipod is by merely reading it's name. I've copied a portion that says it fairly well. Our Messiah was no wimp!! He didn't suggest we be one either. The give thy cloak also has an entirely different meaning than can be discerned with our modern day Gentile minds, unless of course you are familiar with Hebrew Law of the day.
What Did Jesus Really Mean When He Said "Turn the Other Cheek"?

Why then does Jesus counsel these already humiliated people to turn the other cheek? Because this action robs the oppressor of power to humiliate them. The person who turns the other cheek is saying, in effect, "Try again. Your first blow failed to achieve its intended effect. I deny you the power to humiliate me. I am a human being just like you. Your status (gender, race, age, wealth) does not alter that. You cannot demean me." Such a response would create enormous difficulties for the striker. Purely logistically, how can he now hit the other cheek? He cannot backhand it with his right hand. If he hits with a fist, he makes himself an equal, acknowledging the other as a peer. But the whole point of the back of the hand is to reinforce the caste system and its institutionalized inequality.

 

[Elin]

I knew someone who would intentionally break something of mine, like a flower something cheap, and he'd say, "do you still love your brother? will you reject the biblical command of love?!?!" then when I told him I didn't want him around if he was going to keep breaking my stuff, and he 'proclamed judgement' that I was a bad hostess, and the next day texts me, "will you fulfill the biblical command to reconcile???" poke poke....poke poke poke

this is my own emotional problem that this attitude offends me so...I remember beating up the kids at school in like elementary school who would tease the smaller kids. I just can't bear taunting. It makes me think, oh, I know how to make this stop. But the Lord says to turn the other cheek. Where does this stop. Should I still turn the other cheek if the persons gonna kill me, or what if they would rape me do I just let them, because Jesus said turn the other cheek, and that's what the enemy is going to be quoting while he's hurting you. Don't return evil for evil. I'm just going to start hurting your kids now, you didn't make an idol of them did you, because I'm going to take one of these little ones. Poke poke. If you keep letting him hurt you, he will make it into a game, to see what he can get away with. This is what the Judaizers did, they were there to poke the new Christians and get them to give up their crown.

This is why we can't talk about anything to do with the Old Testament without getting attacked by the enemy...it's just the other side of the coin. On one side of the coin is people trying to convince you to get circumcised and be a jew, the other side of the coin wants the OT discarded. The rim of the coin is the narrow path....which in the OT case is obey EVERY WORD of your Master, but don't go doing extra crap he didn't mention and that has no good reason (like getting circumcised, or putting the fire of God in a censor and putting incense on it, etc).

This post is not meant to be directed at Elin or anyone else on cc...it's just my venting about our enemy. =P

I can see how that kind of pain would confuse a young mind.

But if it's any help, in Scripture preservation of innocent life trumps all other commandments.

So when harm is at stake, one is to defend innocent life.

And when Jesus says to turn the other cheek, he is saying turn the other cheek rather than
retaliate in like kind--an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

He is not saying one should not defend himself or defend others.

 

[GregoryC]

1 Timothy 1:5 The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 Some have departed from these and have turned to meaningless talk. 7 They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.