@ Jackson
I was raised as Catholic. I still having problems with my secularlity and my mundane side but, on the contrary, I owe many things to the WORK Cathollism has done in "my" culture. The problem, of course, is not religion, but the way, relilgios model have been used (and abused) to CONTROL AND RULE PEOPLE.
At that point, I see
ROME and
the Vatican, THE ROMAN HOLY EMPIRE, as
a political force that lied TOO LONG and longs to LEAD the number of people they keep on leading.
@ Bro secularhermit,
I love Catholic as God command us to love your fellow man as you love your self. That is way I try to pas on what I read about Vatican and her teaching, How she involve in war, holocaust etc. What I read may wrong, but a lot of convincing information that you can consider why I believe.
For example, some people accused Vatican behind holocaust. I read from a lot of resource including Chick Publication by Dr Alberto Rivera. In the 90, I read, Alberto Rivera, ex Jesuit tell the story when he study at Vatican I believe in the early 60, Cardinal Bee as a professor tell a long term Vatican plan that include Vatican will apology, that Vatican is the entity behind Zionist and that Vatican want Jerusalem, because Vatican believe that Pope represent Jesus and the bible said Jesus will rule from Jerusalem so His representative better rule from Jerusalem.
This book publish in 1972 back than there is no prove at all. But if you Google now, you find what is Alberto said.
Around the year 2000 there is lawsuit going on in San fransico Court, holocaust victim sue Vatican bank known as IOR. and ask Vatican to return the stolen gold from holocaust victim. Than if you have time to Google, Paul John II Apology to Holocaust victim I think around 100 time during his papacy. Start from silent during holocaust, than more and more specific and from what I remember, at March 2000 when he made 94th apologies, he confess that it is the church fault, not only church officer.
I hope you recheck what I read, I may make a mistake, but I think it is logic that Vatican who believe Pope is represent Jesus. And Jesus is King of king, then Pope must be take over His delegation as King of king on earth till, Jesus the real King come and rule from Jerusalem.
To research deeply, I re post part of Jesuit oath and if you wont to read the complete document, just Google in a minute.
Go ye, then, into all the world and take possession of all lands in the name of the Pope. He who will not accept him as the Vicar of Jesus and his Vice-Regent on earth, let him be accursed and exterminated."
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Professor Arthur Noble[/FONT]
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Helvetica][The following is the text of the Jesuit Extreme Oath of Induction as recorded in the Journals of the 62nd Congress, 3rd Session, of the United States
Congressional Record (House Calendar No. 397, Report No. 1523, 15 February, 1913, pp. 3215-3216), from which it was subsequently torn out. The Oath is also quoted by Charles Didier in his book Subterranean Rome (New York
, 1843), translated from the French original. Dr. Alberto Rivera, who escaped from the Jesuit Order in 1967, confirms that the induction ceremony and the text of the Jesuit Oath which he took were identical to what we have cited below. – A. N.][/FONT]
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When a Jesuit of the minor rank is to be elevated to command, he is conducted into the Chapel of the Convent of the Order, where there are only three others present, the principal or Superior standing in front of the altar. On either side stands a monk, one of whom holds a banner of yellow and white, which are the Papal colours, and the other a black banner with a dagger and red cross
above a skull and crossbones
, with the word INRI, and below them the words IUSTUM NECAR REGES IMPIUS. The meaning of which is: It is just to exterminate or annihilate impious or heretical Kings, Governments, or Rulers.
Upon the floor is a red cross at which the postulant or candidate kneels. The Superior hands him a small black crucifix, which he takes in his left hand and presses to his heart, and the Superior at the same time presents to him a dagger, which he grasps by the blade and holds the point against his heart, the Superior still holding it by the hilt, and thus addresses the postulant:
my son, heretofore you have been taught to act the dissembler: among Roman Catholics
to be a Roman Catholic, and to be a spy even among your own brethren; to believe no man, to trust no man. Among the Reformers, to be a Reformer; among the Huguenots, to be a Huguenot; among the Calvinists, to be a Calvinist; among other Protestants, generally to be a Protestant; and obtaining their confidence, to seek even to preach from their pulpits, and to denounce with all the vehemence in your nature our Holy Religion and the Pope; and even to descend so low as to become a Jew among Jews, that you might be enabled to gather together all information for the benefit of your Order as a faithful soldier of the Pope. You have been taught to plant insidiously the seeds of jealousy and hatred between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and to incite them to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings of peace; to take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and that the end justifies the means. You have been taught your duty as a spy, to gather all statistics, facts and information in your power from every source; to ingratiate yourself into the confidence of the family circle of Protestants and heretics of every class and character, as well as that of the merchant, the banker, the lawyer, among the schools and universities, in parliaments and legislatures, and the
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