Capital Punishment?

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Cako53

Guest
#1
I want to hear everyone's views on capital punishment. Scripture is nice to hear, but if not, that's fine to. Should capital punishment be in effect? What crimes deserve capital punishment?

I guess I could start with my opinions. I think that pre-meditated murder deserves capital punishment, child molestation/sexual abuse deserves capital punshment. I also believe that rapists should be castrated. Any ways, that's my opinions, now lets hear yours.
 
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concernedguy

Guest
#2
I want to hear everyone's views on capital punishment. Scripture is nice to hear, but if not, that's fine to. Should capital punishment be in effect? What crimes deserve capital punishment?

I guess I could start with my opinions. I think that pre-meditated murder deserves capital punishment, child molestation/sexual abuse deserves capital punshment. I also believe that rapists should be castrated. Any ways, that's my opinions, now lets hear yours.

This is a difficult question. Under God's Laws we are to forgive them. But it has been proven that
many that commit these crimes will not stop till they are dead.

To me, premeditated murder does warrant death but our criminal system is flawed and sends innocent
people not only to jail but to death row. There needs to be an absolute way to prove that a person
committed a crime before death is warranted.

To me, any person that repeatedly commits a crime such the ones you are asking about has proven
their worthlessness to society, their hatred of others and their intent to harm others any time they
get the chance. Under these conditions, I think the death penalty should apply. There should be
enough absolute proof against anyone that is repeatedly committing these crimes unlike a one
time offense.
 
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Groundhog

Guest
#3
I am 100% against capital punishment. My reasons are:

1.) The justice system is not perfect and innocent people have been executed.

2.) As Christians, Vengeance is not ours our dish out; vengeance belongs to God alone (Romans 12:19).

3.) As Christians, we always want to leave room for forgiveness, reconciliation, and redemption to happen.

We Christians live by love, grace, mercy, and forgiveness. You may think someone deserves to die for what they have done, and you may be right. But what the gospel teaches us is that we all have blood on our hands, and we all have fallen short of the glory of God. By showing grace to even the worst of criminals, we are doing the difficult work of God. Scripture says that while were STILL SINNERS--while we were still criminals--Christ died for us.

Romans 5:7-9
"Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Incarceration is a bad enough punishment, and it removes the criminal from society so that he/she cannot harm people anymore. It is simply not our place to kill.
 
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Maddog

Guest
#4
I agree with Groundhog; I don't believe in capital punishment. I would go as far as saying that someone who has murdered another deserves death but I am uneasy about saying that any other human (or the state) has the right to execute that punishment. Second, enforcing strict justice is simply vengeful if it is not tendered with mercy, and we should remember that we are ALL dependent on mercy being extended towards us.

The best argument I've heard for capital punishment is that the value of the murder victim's life is not fully recognised if their killer is allowed to live. However it is for precisely the same reason that I draw a different conclusion; human life is of infinite value and we should seek to preserve it always.

I have no idea how someone could justify capital punishment for any crime other than murder, though. Justice, by it's nature must be proportionate, and a death sentence for a crime in which no lives were taken is not proportionate.

I can't say I agree with castration for rapists (or any other offence) either. Even though they are criminals, they are still human beings, and we should treat them with the dignity that all those who bear God's image demand. Damage to their person such as castration would violate this.
 
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concernedguy

Guest
#5
I am 100% against capital punishment. My reasons are:

1.) The justice system is not perfect and innocent people have been executed.

2.) As Christians, Vengeance is not ours our dish out; vengeance belongs to God alone (Romans 12:19).

3.) As Christians, we always want to leave room for forgiveness, reconciliation, and redemption to happen.

We Christians live by love, grace, mercy, and forgiveness. You may think someone deserves to die for what they have done, and you may be right. But what the gospel teaches us is that we all have blood on our hands, and we all have fallen short of the glory of God. By showing grace to even the worst of criminals, we are doing the difficult work of God. Scripture says that while were STILL SINNERS--while we were still criminals--Christ died for us.

Romans 5:7-9
"Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

Incarceration is a bad enough punishment, and it removes the criminal from society so that he/she cannot harm people anymore. It is simply not our place to kill.

I believe we should forgive but history dictates these individuals will not stop hurting others until
they themselves are dead or locked up. To me, this is a tough question and I see both sides.
Some issues are just too big for man to decide.

It is easy to say forgive when it wasn't your wife or daughter that was raped and/or abused.

On the other hand, the criminal cost about $60,000/year to house. In just 10 years, thats
$600,000. This $600,000 could have been used to help feed thousands of children that died of
starvation during that 10 year period. Multiply this $600,000 by 1 million and you have
60 Billion spent housing criminals that studies have proven only a few will ever change and of
the few that do change, over 60% will commit the crime again.

I do understand the issue of what is a life worth?
But it seems to be a catch 22. We either pay billions to house the criminals that drain our resources
to help those in need or we house the criminals and let thousands die to save the one.

This is a big issue and God may be the only one to decide the outcome. I think forgiveness is to be
tried first. But to let a criminal rape, torture and kill several innocent people on the pretense they
will seek forgiveness when studies prove most never will is a big question. How many innocent
people need to be tortured to death to save this one criminal life?

Some things are too big for man to answer. The sin and evil of man's heart is too vast and deep
for man to judge himself. My only goal would be to protect the innocent from these criminals but
doing so does have its own problems.

I don't think we will know the right answer till we can ask Jesus one day! But on that day, it won't
matter. Justice will have been served by Christ Himself.
 
L

Leilaii425

Guest
#6
Im all for capitol punishment. I believe if you willingly take a human life, yours should be taken. In the 1990s there was a woman who was executed, Karla Faye Tucker in Texas. She killed her exboyfriend and his girlfriend with a pic axe while they were sleeping. While she was in jail she got saved and asked george bush to reconsider executing her. He denied it and she was executed by lethal injection. Alot of christians were mad because she got saved and ''didnt deserve to die because of that'' But i firmly believe that there should be consequences for your actions. What would stop people from killing each other if there was no severe punishment.

For rapist, i believe yes they should be castrated. The most a guy gets for rape is several years. And most of them after getting out of jail land BACK in jail for the same crime. Castration. Yes i believe thats the answer honestly.

For those that commit crimes against children, I find that the most haneous act. So i firmly believe they should be punished in an extreme manor. I think they should have their arms cut off and be castrated as well. Alot of men dont serve jail sentences for molesting a child. So whats to stop them??? Im sure if they knew what ever they used to offend the child with would be cut off, they might think twice.

I think if Certain crimes were met with more severe punshiments, we might have less of them. Just my take on it.
 
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Maddog

Guest
#7
For rapist, i believe yes they should be castrated. The most a guy gets for rape is several years. And most of them after getting out of jail land BACK in jail for the same crime. Castration. Yes i believe thats the answer honestly.

For those that commit crimes against children, I find that the most haneous act. So i firmly believe they should be punished in an extreme manor. I think they should have their arms cut off and be castrated as well.
You don't think that that kind of violence against the human body is a violation of human dignity and a lack of respect for something good which God has created?
 
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Cako53

Guest
#8
Im all for capitol punishment. I believe if you willingly take a human life, yours should be taken. In the 1990s there was a woman who was executed, Karla Faye Tucker in Texas. She killed her exboyfriend and his girlfriend with a pic axe while they were sleeping. While she was in jail she got saved and asked george bush to reconsider executing her. He denied it and she was executed by lethal injection. Alot of christians were mad because she got saved and ''didnt deserve to die because of that'' But i firmly believe that there should be consequences for your actions. What would stop people from killing each other if there was no severe punishment.

For rapist, i believe yes they should be castrated. The most a guy gets for rape is several years. And most of them after getting out of jail land BACK in jail for the same crime. Castration. Yes i believe thats the answer honestly.

For those that commit crimes against children, I find that the most haneous act. So i firmly believe they should be punished in an extreme manor. I think they should have their arms cut off and be castrated as well. Alot of men dont serve jail sentences for molesting a child. So whats to stop them??? Im sure if they knew what ever they used to offend the child with would be cut off, they might think twice.

I think if Certain crimes were met with more severe punshiments, we might have less of them. Just my take on it.
I'm glad I have some agreement. I just find it utterly repulsive that someone in Canada, a free nation, can perform oral sex acts on an 8 year old girl and vica versa, and he only gets 2 years in jail simply because he hasnt been caught before. I find that disgusting and vile!
 
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Groundhog

Guest
#9
I forgot to mention something else: capital punishment does not deter crime. Studies have shown over the years that a death penalty does not prevent crimes from happening.

Also, I am disturbed by some of the ugly, hateful stuff being posted here by Christians. You are not to have hatred toward any man, no matter how awful he is. We can be disgusted and disturbed by a person's actions, and we can feel anger toward them, etc. These are natural reactions. But what we must not do let those hateful, primal impulses take us over to the point were we advocate for the death of another human being. Jesus said, "Love your enemies as yourselves." He didn't list any exceptions to this rule. And when he says "enemy" he doesn't mean the person that annoys you at work; he means anyone that you hate, and especially anyone that hates you and tries to make your life miserable. This new way of living that Jesus and the New Testament lay out is TOUGH. There's no doubt about that. And often it doesn't make sense: why would I keep forgiving someone that keeps doing wrong, or why would I love someone that wants to harm me? Yet this is what Jesus calls us to. We can talk about how difficult it is, and lean on each other for support, but when we start saying "Forget what Jesus said, this guy deserves to die!" . . . I just don't know what to say. If you would like me to post several verses proving supporting my position I can do so, but I'just disheartened at the thought of having to do so.
 
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Cako53

Guest
#10
I forgot to mention something else: capital punishment does not deter crime. Studies have shown over the years that a death penalty does not prevent crimes from happening.

Also, I am disturbed by some of the ugly, hateful stuff being posted here by Christians. You are not to have hatred toward any man, no matter how awful he is. We can be disgusted and disturbed by a person's actions, and we can feel anger toward them, etc. These are natural reactions. But what we must not do let those hateful, primal impulses take us over to the point were we advocate for the death of another human being. Jesus said, "Love your enemies as yourselves." He didn't list any exceptions to this rule. And when he says "enemy" he doesn't mean the person that annoys you at work; he means anyone that you hate, and especially anyone that hates you and tries to make your life miserable. This new way of living that Jesus and the New Testament lay out is TOUGH. There's no doubt about that. And often it doesn't make sense: why would I keep forgiving someone that keeps doing wrong, or why would I love someone that wants to harm me? Yet this is what Jesus calls us to. We can talk about how difficult it is, and lean on each other for support, but when we start saying "Forget what Jesus said, this guy deserves to die!" . . . I just don't know what to say. If you would like me to post several verses proving supporting my position I can do so, but I'just disheartened at the thought of having to do so.
How can we be sure anymore? Everyone's statistics are different, I have read that in Canada for every 1 execution 18 murders are stopped. If everyones saying different facts how can we be sure. I've also read that killing them is cheaper, and than I've heard keeping them in prison is cheaper. No one is sure now a days, but I'm sticking behind the fact that it does deter murder.
 
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Groundhog

Guest
#11
How can we be sure anymore? Everyone's statistics are different, I have read that in Canada for every 1 execution 18 murders are stopped. If everyones saying different facts how can we be sure. I've also read that killing them is cheaper, and than I've heard keeping them in prison is cheaper. No one is sure now a days, but I'm sticking behind the fact that it does deter murder.
Even if you do it doesn't take away the moral problem with the death penalty. It goes against everything the New Testament stands for.
 
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Matthew

Guest
#12
The worst criminals seem to be motivated by their impulses alone and pursue satisfaction whenever they have the chance, so at the moment the only choice other than execution is lifelong incarceration but that carries a huge burden for society and takes resources away from other things.

For murder victims and victims of other severe crimes there can be no justice, it can never be put right and those acts can't be taken back and in that sense no punishment will ever be sufficent, therefore we have a choice to do the same thing they did or stop it there.
I can see the argument for capital punishment because ultimately it's aim is to protect as much as punish, but it is still wrong because while our motivation for doing it is different and maybe more righteous, the act is ultimately the same and I don't ever want to be a killer, by association or otherwise.

I would probably feel differently if someone I loved was a victim, that's why it's good there is a system that helps stop relatives and friends becoming vigilantes and doing what they think is neccesary in those situations, such as murder, which in that circumstance they would probably liken to capital punishment.

I think if these criminals are unable to function in society they should simply be removed from it, ideally we would have a way to remove these criminals from society without putting a huge financial burden on public finances, maybe a desert island

In my view compromising our own humanity by castrating, cutting off limbs and putting people to death is something that needs to avoided no matter the crime commited, if we do these things we only increase the amount of damage these criminals have done because they not only harm their victim(s) they bring out the worst in other people as well.
 
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Cako53

Guest
#13
Even if you do it doesn't take away the moral problem with the death penalty. It goes against everything the New Testament stands for.
Okay, well prisons are made for people to contain them for theirs and other's safety. They are also used to help people entegrate back into society after there time is up. Why do you want some violent guy who is going to be in there until he dies, with some other guy who will be out in 5 years? This has happened MANY times where the inmate just doesn't care anymore and kills his fellow prisoners. On top of this, why should we pay for this criminal to sit and do NOTHING for the rest of his life? Put it this way as well. What murderer who has been executed, has killed again? I haven't heard of any.
 
Feb 9, 2009
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#14
I'm a firm believer in capital punishment. Rape and murder are the two that should be at the top of the list for crimes that should fall into the category for capital punishment.
 
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Cako53

Guest
#15
I'm a firm believer in capital punishment. Rape and murder are the two that should be at the top of the list for crimes that should fall into the category for capital punishment.
What about children sexual/physical abuse? I find that one of the worst crimes.
 
J

Jordan9

Guest
#16
I am opposed to the destruction of human life in almost all cases (I am still unsure if I believe in "Just War" theory or pacifism... but that is for another time.) This is no exception.

The Fourth and Fifth Beatitudes are pertinent here:

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice, for they shall have their fill.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy." Matt. 5:6-7

Not only will we who crave justice (and trust me, I am one of them) receive it, but Our Lord will be the one making things right and just. Isn't that much more comforting than us, in our depravity and error, delivering our own justice? I think so.

The second verse is especially important, and this is by no means the only time this message comes to us in Scripture. Remember Our Lord's Prayer? "Forgive of us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." I am not advocating we let criminals go free. Those who commit violent acts should be imprisoned (personally, I like the idea of them doing charity work; a prison farm or making clothing...) But they should not be killed.

Violent offenders use violence to get what they want. The murderer may want revenge, or money, or what have you. The rapist wants power or pleasure, or both. The point is, they use violence to achieve their goals. By killing them, we affirm their worldview; that one can kill and utilize violence to obtain what we desire. We, in essence, agree with them. Scary stuff, I think.

When Jesus cast out demons, the Pharisees accused Him of consorting with demons. He replied "How can Satan cast out Satan?" How can evil defeat evil? How can violence correct violence? How can an injustice cover an injustice? The answer is, it can't. Or, as Martin Luther King Jr. said, "Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial moral and political questions of our time; the need for mankind to overcome oppression and violence, without resorting to violence and oppression."

Finally, Cako, I am sceptical about your claim that in Canada "18 murders are prevented for every execution" seeing as we don't execute criminals here in Canada. Capital punishment was abolished in 1976, though the last execution was in 1962.

Anyway, those are my late-night thoughts. It is an interesting topic.

Pax Christi!
 
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Cako53

Guest
#17
I am opposed to the destruction of human life in almost all cases (I am still unsure if I believe in "Just War" theory or pacifism... but that is for another time.) This is no exception.

The Fourth and Fifth Beatitudes are pertinent here:

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice, for they shall have their fill.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy." Matt. 5:6-7

Not only will we who crave justice (and trust me, I am one of them) receive it, but Our Lord will be the one making things right and just. Isn't that much more comforting than us, in our depravity and error, delivering our own justice? I think so.

The second verse is especially important, and this is by no means the only time this message comes to us in Scripture. Remember Our Lord's Prayer? "Forgive of us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." I am not advocating we let criminals go free. Those who commit violent acts should be imprisoned (personally, I like the idea of them doing charity work; a prison farm or making clothing...) But they should not be killed.

Violent offenders use violence to get what they want. The murderer may want revenge, or money, or what have you. The rapist wants power or pleasure, or both. The point is, they use violence to achieve their goals. By killing them, we affirm their worldview; that one can kill and utilize violence to obtain what we desire. We, in essence, agree with them. Scary stuff, I think.

When Jesus cast out demons, the Pharisees accused Him of consorting with demons. He replied "How can Satan cast out Satan?" How can evil defeat evil? How can violence correct violence? How can an injustice cover an injustice? The answer is, it can't. Or, as Martin Luther King Jr. said, "Nonviolence is the answer to the crucial moral and political questions of our time; the need for mankind to overcome oppression and violence, without resorting to violence and oppression."

Finally, Cako, I am sceptical about your claim that in Canada "18 murders are prevented for every execution" seeing as we don't execute criminals here in Canada. Capital punishment was abolished in 1976, though the last execution was in 1962.

Anyway, those are my late-night thoughts. It is an interesting topic.

Pax Christi!
This is right from the victims of violence site:
http://www.victimsofviolence.on.ca/rev2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=327&Itemid=17
Capital punishment deters others - Many argue that if offenders knew they were going to be sentenced to death, they would not commit their crimes. Clifford Olson has admitted that if the death penalty were in place in Canada he would not have murdered 11 children in a crime spree in 1981. A study conducted in 1975 found that for every execution, a total of eight murders were prevented. In 1985 another study, conducted by Stephen Layson, found that every execution prevents up to 18 murders.
So one person says that every execution 8 murders are stopped and another says 18 are stopped, either way that's enough for me to want it in. Our government is supposed to be protecting us, that is their job.
 
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Maddog

Guest
#18
I'm a firm believer in capital punishment. Rape and murder are the two that should be at the top of the list for crimes that should fall into the category for capital punishment.
Why for rape? Punishment should be proportionate to the offence committed, and taking a life for a crime in which no one was killed isn't proportionate.
 
M

Matthew

Guest
#19
This is right from the victims of violence site:
http://www.victimsofviolence.on.ca/rev2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=327&Itemid=17
Capital punishment deters others - Many argue that if offenders knew they were going to be sentenced to death, they would not commit their crimes. Clifford Olson has admitted that if the death penalty were in place in Canada he would not have murdered 11 children in a crime spree in 1981. A study conducted in 1975 found that for every execution, a total of eight murders were prevented. In 1985 another study, conducted by Stephen Layson, found that every execution prevents up to 18 murders.
So one person says that every execution 8 murders are stopped and another says 18 are stopped, either way that's enough for me to want it in. Our government is supposed to be protecting us, that is their job.
I think that reasoning is flawed, the problem is it is all retrospective, Clifford Olson may have claimed he would not have done those things had the punishment been execution, but those are just words, considered and spoken when his free life was already forefit, the reality is he raped several of his victims and sexual offenders often don't rationally choose to do it, they have mental problems and it is wishful thinking to believe that had the death penalty been available that knowledge would have given him some extra ability to control himself and all his dark impulses, he would likely have done the exact same thing.

It's easy to hold onto the idea that extreme physical punishment deters crime but I don't think it does, in the heat of the moment these criminals have dark desires, whether to muder or rape etc. and knowing in that moment that 5 years down the line they might be executed when they could just as easily die on any other day in any other way is not going to help them restrain their desire to do something.

Studies can be used as guides only, and fairly poor guides a lot of the time, they are often done on a small group and then the results are applied to a large group, this is why governments do such a poor job a lot of the time, all their information misrepresents reality.

The goverment does not need to execute people to keep you safe, any criminal whose crime would warrant the death penalty will likely never be realeased from prison if the death penalty is not in effect, you would not be any safer with or without it, and trying to enforce a theory that executions deter murder is not a good enough reason to do it.
 
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wwjd_kilden

Guest
#20
capital punishment is wrong

why?

1.Iit doesn't punish the violator - he/ she just dies - It DOES however punish the family....

2. If it is wrong for A to kill, it is wrong for B to kill. So the state has no more right over lives than anyone else

and seemingly prison doesnt scare them off it, so prison for life for rape, serious violence or murder is my vote....