That is ok with me
...Math speaks and 10.5 billion to one tells me all that I need to know when the math is done...-
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That is ok with me
...Math speaks and 10.5 billion to one tells me all that I need to know when the math is done...
QUOTES..............
Originally Posted by dcontroversal 
And a primo example of why we should all study the words from the original languages if possible! The gospel of a different kind was Jesus plus works for salvation---->Galatians chapter three....
yep. lets not tell the KJV only cult we found another flaw in their perfect bible. We might start WW3, which will bring in the AntiChrist, Which will bring about Gods wrath.................etc etc
END QUOTES...................
well, while I am not a KJV only...........I do use/prefer the KJV, but also enjoy the CJB...............that being said.........maybe the problem isn't with my understanding of "salvation," but yours?
Perhaps you guys should study up on the difference between SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION and JUSTIFICATION?
If anyone believes that "works" are necessary for salvation, then they are going to be really, really disappointed one day........well, in my KJV understanding of Scripture anyhoo...........
And a primo example of why we should all study the words from the original languages if possible! The gospel of a different kind was Jesus plus works for salvation---->Galatians chapter three....yep. lets not tell the KJV only cult we found another flaw in their perfect bible. We might start WW3, which will bring in the AntiChrist, Which will bring about Gods wrath.................etc etc
END QUOTES...................
well, while I am not a KJV only...........I do use/prefer the KJV, but also enjoy the CJB...............that being said.........maybe the problem isn't with my understanding of "salvation," but yours?
Perhaps you guys should study up on the difference between SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION and JUSTIFICATION?
If anyone believes that "works" are necessary for salvation, then they are going to be really, really disappointed one day........well, in my KJV understanding of Scripture anyhoo...........
Hi there, I looked the up word "cult" initially in the Webster's 1828 dictionary but could not find it, so I checked another dictionary and here is what I found:
1
:formal religious veneration*:worship
2
:a system of religious beliefs and ritual;*also*:its body of adherents
3
:a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious;*also*:its body of adherents
4
:a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator*<health*cult>
5
a*:great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book);*especially*:such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b*:the object of such devotion
c*:a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
And my personal definition of what a cult is: is any religious group that holds to teachings which are contrary to the word of God.
QUOTES..............
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
yep. lets not tell the KJV only cult we found another flaw in their perfect bible. We might start WW3, which will bring in the AntiChrist, Which will bring about Gods wrath.................etc etc
END QUOTES...................
well, while I am not a KJV only...........I do use/prefer the KJV, but also enjoy the CJB...............that being said.........maybe the problem isn't with my understanding of "salvation," but yours?
Perhaps you guys should study up on the difference between SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION and JUSTIFICATION?
If anyone believes that "works" are necessary for salvation, then they are going to be really, really disappointed one day........well, in my KJV understanding of Scripture anyhoo...........
Paul, mi amigo...
1. I use the King Jim
2. I know the difference between salvation, justification and sanctification
3. I don't believe works are necessary for salvation, but rather, evidence of salvation....
The only one above of the three listed in (2) that is a process is sanctification as applied to our daily lives!
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
QUOTES..............
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
yep. lets not tell the KJV only cult we found another flaw in their perfect bible. We might start WW3, which will bring in the AntiChrist, Which will bring about Gods wrath.................etc etc
END QUOTES...................
well, while I am not a KJV only...........I do use/prefer the KJV, but also enjoy the CJB...............that being said.........maybe the problem isn't with my understanding of "salvation," but yours?
Perhaps you guys should study up on the difference between SALVATION and SANCTIFICATION and JUSTIFICATION?
If anyone believes that "works" are necessary for salvation, then they are going to be really, really disappointed one day........well, in my KJV understanding of Scripture anyhoo...........
You missed our point completey.
In Gal 1, the same english word is used to interpret two completely different greek words. Which do not mean the same.
So this easily can cause confusion and allow false belief in and of itself.
Not to mention. It proved it is flawed.
so why then would you state:
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
And a primo example of why we should all study the words from the original languages if possible! The gospel of a different kind was Jesus plus works for salvation---->Galatians chapter three....that sure seems to read.............faith PLUS works for salvation. but, hey, I could be wrong I suppose.........
I am not concerned with the DENOTATIVE message you are posting, but the CONNOTATIVE..............the comments surely reflect the idea that salvation is based on faith plus works............now, if that is not what you believe/are saying, then should you not have made that clear in your original comments? Seems to be a fairly important point in my opinion.
Now, hey, I know it's fun to bash KJV only folks............but when believers start to bash the Word of God, then I simply have to step in and say something......................for instance.............
Let us not concern ourselves with what we believe the "flaws" of a certain translation may or may not be, but rather with OUR FLAWS.................yes? When one states the idea of the KJV (or any other translation) is a "flawed Bible," they are actually stating that God Himself is not powerful enough to assure that His Word is properly presented to mankind.
Not for nothing, but I'm gonna go with God on this one............nit picking every wee little point is not beneficial to anyone in my opinion...........
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
so why then would you state:
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
that sure seems to read.............faith PLUS works for salvation. but, hey, I could be wrong I suppose.........
I think he was trying to say, the other, or different gospel, which was not a gospel at all, was Jesus plus works. Which is what Paul was teaching against..
see the confusion the english text has caused just in the last few posts? If the interpreters has correctly translated the words. we would not be having this misunderstanding.
PS. I use the NKJV and KJV for most of my studies. I use the NASB to teach.
so why then would you state:
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
that sure seems to read.............faith PLUS works for salvation. but, hey, I could be wrong I suppose.........
Galatians 1..another is used twice
1. Allos-->of the same kind
2. Heteros--->of a different kind
The gospel of a different kind was Jesus plus works for salvation <------no power to save
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
If you believe this, you did not understand a thing we said. Niether of us believe in this. Of course if you had been reading what we post in these threads, you may understand this.
No Actually it is not. I have much better things I would rather do. But I will call out an evil cult causing dissension and confusion when I see one.
So lets ignore the fact that many people have believed something literally that the english text says, When if the text was translated correctly, or they study the greek, they would not be confused or led astray?
Sorry my friend, People need to know translations are great for edifying and learning Gods word. But they have some areas where we better seek out the origional text to make sure it is actually saying what it is saying.
Not for nothing, but I understand your "gist." I simply disagree...............I do not lean on the "knowledge" of man for understanding of Scripture.............Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit...............I will place my trust/faith in Him.......but, hey, you guys study the ancient translations/texts as you wish..........my statement still stands true.
Believing the only way one can receive understanding of Scripture is by being versed in the original languages is to not believe in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit in my opinion only I suppose............
anyway............you guys enjoy..........I'll butt out.........
First of all I never implied what you imply.
Second a study of the original languages gives me understanding which does not come across in English
Third...do the following statements make any sense...
This is Paul which is not Paul
Another which is not Another
This is CC which is not CC
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
One does not have to be versed. They just need to have the ability to look.
Are you saying there is no flaw's in the text, as we just showed you. These flaws have caused so many problems in the church for so many years (not just this one, but many of them) which would easily be corrected if we just knew the true meaning of words?
I have yet to go to a church which does not consult the origional text when studying. maybe you have? It is not a mock on God to do this. It is doing as paul commanded. And diligently seek the truth, and test all words of men.
if it is a sin to do this. Then I guess I am in sin for wanting to know the truth of Gods word. And not what men think it says.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
All I know is that I want to know exactly what was said in any given text and by studying from the original languages is the best way to know what was said as there are verb tenses that are lost in translation and numerous words that can be better understood by going to the original languages....
Not that someone cannot glean truth as is, because we can, but why would one not desire to study it to the fullest by using the means that have been given....I remember a group of people in Acts that were called MORE HONORABLE because they searched the scriptures daily so as to know if what they were being taught was biblical!
[h=1]Galatians
1[/h]
1 .) Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
10) For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 .) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 .) For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13) For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 .) And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 .) But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 .) To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
John 5:36) But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 .) And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 .) And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 .) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 .) And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
My point simply is this: We can search through all the texts, all the translations to seek knowledge............or we can place our faith and trust in Him........
Now, you guys do as you are led to do.............but I'm going with Him.........
1[/h]
1 .) Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
10) For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 .) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 .) For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13) For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 .) And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 .) But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 .) To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
John 5:36) But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 .) And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 .) And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 .) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 .) And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
My point simply is this: We can search through all the texts, all the translations to seek knowledge............or we can place our faith and trust in Him........
Now, you guys do as you are led to do.............but I'm going with Him.........
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
People can get the truth as it is. Thats not the question. Confusion and so many false ideas would be destroyed, or not even found, if people looked to the origional text to get the true meaning in many areas!
Galatians
1
1 .) Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
10) For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 .) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 .) For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13) For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 .) And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 .) But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 .) To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
John 5:36) But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 .) And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 .) And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 .) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 .) And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
My point simply is this: We can search through all the texts, all the translations to seek knowledge............or we can place our faith and trust in Him........
Now, you guys do as you are led to do.............but I'm going with Him.........
To use your logic...
Are you saying that because we choose to be more diligent in our search for truth that (WE ARE NOT GOING WITH HIM?)
And where are verses 2-9 as you seemed to have conveniently left them out? and you never answered
First of all I never implied what you imply.
Second a study of the original languages gives me understanding which does not come across in English
Third...do the following statements make any sense...
This is Paul which is not Paul
Another which is not Another
This is CC which is not CC
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
why did you skip part of the passage, and the part we are speaking of??Galatians
1
1 .) Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
10) For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11 .) But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 .) For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13) For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14 .) And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15 .) But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16 .) To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
John 5:36) But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 .) And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 .) And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 .) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 .) And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
My point simply is this: We can search through all the texts, all the translations to seek knowledge............or we can place our faith and trust in Him........
Now, you guys do as you are led to do.............but I'm going with Him.........
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, [SUP]7 [/SUP]which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [SUP]9 [/SUP]As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
This is the part we are speaking of. This can be (and has been) confusing to many people.
It is not confusing at all in the greek.