The Jewish 'Mashiac' - a question about the OT

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danalee

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#1
#1
I'm wondering how the Christian church can debate the Jewish assertion that the Mashiach would be born of human parents, and that it is heresy to believe that God could be born of human flesh. Are there scriptures to support either view of the Messiah in the OT? I'm just curious, I wonder what the real backbone of the Jewish faith has against Christ, as to why they don't believe in him. Thanks for any input...
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#2
Jul 2, 2011
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#2
Reading the Word we know that many Jews are kept from believing Yeshua for our sake. That is, reading the Word.

As far as not being kosher to be born of the flesh, Yeshua was not born of fornication, but born of flesh in order to be qualified in the eyes of His own creation to not only be Yahweh's Chosen Salvation for those who will come to Him, but also Judge of all souls.

Now, anyone who believes Yahweh knows though Yeshua earned this qualification or right, it was always His, for He created all.
 
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Spokenpassage

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#3
#3
Isaiah 9:2-7 NASB

The people who walk in darkness Will see a great light; those who live in a dark land, the light will shine on them. You shall multiply the nation, You shall increase their gladness; they will be glad in Your presence as with the gladness of harvest, as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.

For You shall break the yoke of their burden and the staff on their shoulders, The rod of their oppressor, as at the battle of Midian. For every boot of the booted warrior in the battle tumult, and cloak rolled in blood, will be for burning, fuel for the fire.

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.

Apparently the Jews weren't paying attention to all the scriptures that applied to the Christ. Jesus even acknowledged their weak understanding of scripture. Plus Jesus was begotten by God through a virgin only.
 
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danalee

Guest
#4
#4
JaumeJ said:
Reading the Word we know that many Jews are kept from believing Yeshua for our sake. That is, reading the Word.

As far as not being kosher to be born of the flesh, Yeshua was not born of fornication, but born of flesh in order to be qualified in the eyes of His own creation to not only be Yahweh's Chosen Salvation for those who will come to Him, but also Judge of all souls.

Now, anyone who believes Yahweh knows though Yeshua earned this qualification or right, it was always His, for He created all.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your lovely comment about our savior. I think Christ is evidenced by his great works and by the faith of those who know him, ultimately.
 
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danalee

Guest
#5
#5
Spokenpassage said:
Isaiah 9:2-7 NASB

The people who walk in darkness Will see a great light; those who live in a dark land, the light will shine on them. You shall multiply the nation, You shall increase their gladness; they will be glad in Your presence as with the gladness of harvest, as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.

For You shall break the yoke of their burden and the staff on their shoulders, The rod of their oppressor, as at the battle of Midian. For every boot of the booted warrior in the battle tumult, and cloak rolled in blood, will be for burning, fuel for the fire.

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on His shoulders; and His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.

Apparently the Jews weren't paying attention to all the scriptures that applied to the Christ. Jesus even acknowledged their weak understanding of scripture. Plus Jesus was begotten by God through a virgin only.
Click to expand...

Ah...thank you so much. Lovely...:)
 
4enlightment

4enlightment

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#6
May 15, 2013
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#6
danalee said:
I'm wondering how the Christian church can debate the Jewish assertion that the Mashiach would be born of human parents, and that it is heresy to believe that God could be born of human flesh. Are there scriptures to support either view of the Messiah in the OT? I'm just curious, I wonder what the real backbone of the Jewish faith has against Christ, as to why they don't believe in him. Thanks for any input...
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Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.


Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.


 
RedTent

RedTent

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#7
Oct 31, 2011
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#7
Have you noticed that the Jews called Jesus "the son of man". That is because God sent them kings like David and Saul, and they were called sons of man. Scripture had told them God would send another king. When Jesus told them He was the Son of Man, Christ was telling them that He was a King that God sent. If you will note from Acts, many Jews believed in Christ.

The rabbis had told the people that their scripture told them that when the Messiah came He would get rid of the Romans for them, the Jews would be the rulers. In Isaiah it says "the government will be on his shoulders" Many Jews were simply living for the day that the Messiah would come to get rid of the Romans governing them.

There were Jewish uprisings but in 132 a Jew called Bar Kokhba led a very strong uprising. It was said that he was the Messiah, yet he asked every Jew to help with this war. The Christian Jews could not support one who said he was the Christ. This made the supporters of Kokhba angry. The uprising was not only put down, but the Romans tried to destroy the entire Jewish race, blood ran in the streets. Now, there were more Christian gentiles than Christian Jews.
 
breno785au

breno785au

Senior Member
#8
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
#8
Redtent, what are your sources for that information?
Im asking because im interested learning about Jewish culture around Jesus time and even before.
 
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oldernotwiser

Guest
#9
#9
i would suggest finding a copy of "The Social World of Luke Acts" Ed. by Jerome Neyrey,From Hendrickson Publishers. schorlarly but not a difficult read
 
TheAristocat

TheAristocat

Senior Member
#10
Oct 4, 2011
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#10
danalee said:
I'm wondering how the Christian church can debate the Jewish assertion that the Mashiach would be born of human parents, and that it is heresy to believe that God could be born of human flesh. Are there scriptures to support either view of the Messiah in the OT? I'm just curious, I wonder what the real backbone of the Jewish faith has against Christ, as to why they don't believe in him. Thanks for any input...
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A couple of Jesus' names in the Old Testament were "Mighty God" and "Everlasting Father." Then there's the case where three men met with Abraham, two of them were referred to as angels and the third one was referred to as "Yahweh/Yehovah."

I wouldn't say that God is born of human flesh, since he was never born and he is spirit. But I believe he can occupy a body just as easily as any other spirit can. And if Jesus were born with the Spirit of God then that effectively makes him God - just as our bodies are born with our spirits but we think of ourselves as being more than just our bodies alone.
 
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danschance

Guest
#11
#11
The book of Ruth does imply that Jesus Christ would be a kinsman Redeemer.
 
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biscuit

Guest
#12
#12
danalee said:
I'm wondering how the Christian church can debate the Jewish assertion that the Mashiach would be born of human parents, and that it is heresy to believe that God could be born of human flesh. Are there scriptures to support either view of the Messiah in the OT? I'm just curious, I wonder what the real backbone of the Jewish faith has against Christ, as to why they don't believe in him. Thanks for any input...
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hhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
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Tintin

Guest
#13
#13
Someone please explain who Mashiac is. Thanks.
 
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Tintin

Guest
#15
#15
Many thanks, biscuit. I thought it was a variation on Melchizedek.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#17
Jul 2, 2011
21,587
6,816
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#17
Here in simple terms.

Mashiach is Messiah as close to the actual transliteration directly from the Hebrew.

It is as correct, or even more correct than the transliteration, Messiah.

It is not important as long as the term used by an individual is done with the respect due our Savior.

If we were to change our ways and translate the name of our Savior instead of just using a transliteration, His name would be Salvation Anointed by God (God being the word borrowed from Sanskrit for Yahweh or the Self-existing God.)

It does no one any good to ridicule what another calls the same Savior and Father. It is rude and will produce many tears to be wiped away one day.

I am privileged to use all of the names, Jesus Christ, Yeshua, Yahshua, Yahoshua, Yahweh, Eternal Father, Almighty God, and much more because I believe Him, and I know as long as I am honoring Him, it is good.

Stop bashing others for their language or their accents. This is not of Jesus, or do you say Yeshua? Stop now, and if you would, apologize to your brethren........this goes for those who believe there is only their own way to say Salvation

If your conscience does not tell you that you should accept the brethren and the way they call upon Jesus in spirit and truth, than I am compelled to think your conscience is seared. Both sides, now, in Jesus Christ's name, amen.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#18
Jul 2, 2011
21,587
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#18
Mashiac is not Jewish, it is not even Hebrew. It is a transliteration of the Hebrew word for Messiah, but then, Messiah is also (משיח). If you would like to know what it means, it means Anointed by Yah, or Sent by God(god is Sanskrit and has been borrowed in English to mean Yahweh in English, but Yahweh actually translates as Self-existing.)

biscuit said:
Jewish translation for Messiah
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Elin

Banned
#19
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#19
danalee said:
I'm wondering how the Christian church can debate the Jewish assertion that the Mashiach would be born of human parents, and that it is heresy to believe that God could be born of human flesh. Are there scriptures to support either view of the Messiah in the OT? I'm just curious,
I wonder what the real backbone of the Jewish faith has against Christ, as to why they don't believe in him. Thanks for any input...
Click to expand...
They don't want the revelation spoken by the Son (Heb 1:1-2) to supersede
the revelation of the OT prophets.

They don't want Christianity to supersede Judaism.

They want the place of pre-eminence in God's people,
and despise that all in Christ are the seed of Abraham.

They despise a grace righteousness, and cling to a works righteousness.

They don't want a change of order (Heb 9:10), from the OT to the NT,

whereby much has been set aside:

the Levitical priesthood has been changed from the order of Aaron to the order of Melchizedek
(Heb 7:11-12);

the High Priest of this new priesthood is also King, as was Melchizedek, and is eternal (Heb 7:17);

changing the priesthood changed the law (Heb 7:12) which was based on the Levitical priesthood
(Heb 7:11);

changing the law made the old covenant obsolete (Heb 8:13), because

the old covenant was based on that law, which is now set aside because it was weak and useless
(Heb 7:18-19),

the law is now fulfilled in Christ's law (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2) of love (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).

They absolutely despise and detest all of the above.
 
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biscuit

Guest
#20
#20
JaumeJ said:
Mashiac is not Jewish, it is not even Hebrew. It is a transliteration of the Hebrew word for Messiah, but then, Messiah is also (משיח). If you would like to know what it means, it means Anointed by Yah, or Sent by God(god is Sanskrit and has been borrowed in English to mean Yahweh in English, but Yahweh actually translates as Self-existing.)
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Just shaking my head !!
 
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