DRINKING AND THE SCRIPTURES
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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It is appears that you are oblivious to context as Grape Juice will not...
1. Make the heart merry
2. Lift a saddened heart combined with laugher
3. Have the medicinal properties that have been proven when applied to red wine
4. Make one drunk...
The command it to not be drunk in excess, but the OP listed the acceptable boundaries as applied by God's word....if you don't want to drink a glass of wine then don't and that is acceptable unto God just as it is acceptable unto God if I want to drink a glass of wine to help high blood pressure and or make the heart (MERRY)
1. Make the heart merry
2. Lift a saddened heart combined with laugher
3. Have the medicinal properties that have been proven when applied to red wine
4. Make one drunk...
The command it to not be drunk in excess, but the OP listed the acceptable boundaries as applied by God's word....if you don't want to drink a glass of wine then don't and that is acceptable unto God just as it is acceptable unto God if I want to drink a glass of wine to help high blood pressure and or make the heart (MERRY)
P
I agree with Dcon about alcohol and the bible. Read the whole thread (except for a couple of laborious long posts) and have a couple of things to say. And let me make this clear: I am speaking with the voice of experience. I have close personal experiences in the subject.
Let me address the "drunk in the spirit" comment first. People will use any excuse to drop their inhibitions and act like a fool. And that is exactly what being "drunk in the spirit" is - someone acting like a fool. Anyone that thinks that losing control of self restraint and the ability to control your extremities is the Holy Spirit is a fool. Never, ever, at no place in the bible, do we have an example of someone losing control of themselves in worship. We have a few examples of people losing control, but Christ fixed that, didn't He? People that act like that are sick! They have a demon!
Now a thought on drink itself. I don't believe alcoholism is a disease. No more than homosexuality. Either of those requires a person to make a choice to participate. I got picked up for DUI some years ago. Had to go to a DUI school to get my drivers license back. The teacher told me I couldn't quit without help, that I was an alcoholic. I said "I already have quit. I quit the night I got put in jail."
He said "You can't do it. You need to go to AA". I quit drinking for seventeen years.
To take a drink you make a decision to drink. The mind tells the arm to extend, and the hand to clasp that bottle. And then a conscience decision is then made to put it to your lips and drink. That is not a disease. That is a choice. People just don't want to be held responsible for their actions. They like hearing "you're sick, you can't help it". HOGWASH! You can help it - don't do it!
Let me address the "drunk in the spirit" comment first. People will use any excuse to drop their inhibitions and act like a fool. And that is exactly what being "drunk in the spirit" is - someone acting like a fool. Anyone that thinks that losing control of self restraint and the ability to control your extremities is the Holy Spirit is a fool. Never, ever, at no place in the bible, do we have an example of someone losing control of themselves in worship. We have a few examples of people losing control, but Christ fixed that, didn't He? People that act like that are sick! They have a demon!
Now a thought on drink itself. I don't believe alcoholism is a disease. No more than homosexuality. Either of those requires a person to make a choice to participate. I got picked up for DUI some years ago. Had to go to a DUI school to get my drivers license back. The teacher told me I couldn't quit without help, that I was an alcoholic. I said "I already have quit. I quit the night I got put in jail."
He said "You can't do it. You need to go to AA". I quit drinking for seventeen years.
To take a drink you make a decision to drink. The mind tells the arm to extend, and the hand to clasp that bottle. And then a conscience decision is then made to put it to your lips and drink. That is not a disease. That is a choice. People just don't want to be held responsible for their actions. They like hearing "you're sick, you can't help it". HOGWASH! You can help it - don't do it!
Drinking vs Drunkenness
1. Bishops/Elders not given to wine
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
2. Deacons/Ministers not given to too much wine
1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Wine was used during the Lord Supper
1Co 11:20 When you gather in the same place, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper.
1Co 11:21 For as you eat, each of you rushes to eat his own supper, and one person goes hungry while another gets drunk.
Even though the topic of 1 Cor 11 was on how to properly behave and conduct during the Lord Supper… the reality is that they were using wine.
In verse 21 it was reported that other have eaten too much that others go home hungry…and other have drink too much that they got drunk…
Paul may even suggest that they have their home where they can eat and DRINK. Paul did not condemn the Use of wine.
1Co 11:22 You have homes in which to eat and drink, don't you? Or do you despise God's church and humiliate those who have nothing? What should I say to you? Should I praise you? I will not praise you for this!
All of the above does not Prohibit Christian to drink wine…otherwise the Bishops/elders have no participation in the Lord Supper.
Of course now, because of technology and traffic safety concerns Churches now do not use wine for the Lord supper.
No. 1 and 2 above does not mentioned “strong drink”…Does that mean we are allowed to drink all strong drink we can????
Strong drink or wine…the important about drink is its purpose.
And for Christian it is to DRINK but not to get DRUNK…
Like Money can be used for good and evil.
Like Drums can be used to worship God and it can also be used in evil purpose.(like slamming it to someone’s head)
In Drinking;
Let the Holy Spirit decide your limit.
Excessive drinking is being filled with the spirit of alcohol.
1. Bishops/Elders not given to wine
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
2. Deacons/Ministers not given to too much wine
1Ti 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
Wine was used during the Lord Supper
1Co 11:20 When you gather in the same place, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper.
1Co 11:21 For as you eat, each of you rushes to eat his own supper, and one person goes hungry while another gets drunk.
Even though the topic of 1 Cor 11 was on how to properly behave and conduct during the Lord Supper… the reality is that they were using wine.
In verse 21 it was reported that other have eaten too much that others go home hungry…and other have drink too much that they got drunk…
Paul may even suggest that they have their home where they can eat and DRINK. Paul did not condemn the Use of wine.
1Co 11:22 You have homes in which to eat and drink, don't you? Or do you despise God's church and humiliate those who have nothing? What should I say to you? Should I praise you? I will not praise you for this!
All of the above does not Prohibit Christian to drink wine…otherwise the Bishops/elders have no participation in the Lord Supper.
Of course now, because of technology and traffic safety concerns Churches now do not use wine for the Lord supper.
No. 1 and 2 above does not mentioned “strong drink”…Does that mean we are allowed to drink all strong drink we can????
Strong drink or wine…the important about drink is its purpose.
And for Christian it is to DRINK but not to get DRUNK…
Like Money can be used for good and evil.
Like Drums can be used to worship God and it can also be used in evil purpose.(like slamming it to someone’s head)
In Drinking;
Let the Holy Spirit decide your limit.
Excessive drinking is being filled with the spirit of alcohol.
J
In the bible when it says wine you have to read the context of the scripture. Old wine is fermented (alcohol) and new wine is grape juice. Jesus turned water into grape juice not alcohol, it didn't have time to ferment. Jesus would be a hypocrite to tell people to drink alcohol and condemn them when they get drunk.
I agree and no doubt....I quote scriptures and so called believers not only reject the truth and inspiration of the scriptures quoted which is to call Jesus/God a liar, but also to add insult to injury when Jesus gets called a hypocrite for the scriptures that he gave in context and the inspired Proverbs by God through the wisest man to walk the earth other than Jesus himself. WOW!
J
Throughout the entire bible there are examples of God's people and his enemies that have used wine (alcohol) and as result of the alcohol they were punished for their actions.
Genesis 9:20-27 - Ham is cursed because he looked upon his father Noah who was asleep and naked from being drunk.
Genesis 19:32 - Lot's daughters get him drunk and have sex with him. They offspring were the Moabites and Ammonites, enemies of God's children.
Leviticus 10:1-2, 9-10 - Nadab and Abihu got drunk and did not follow God's command and as a result were destroyed by God.
Daniel 5:3-4 - Belshazzar used the vessels from God's temple to drink wine and praise false gods.
In Revelation 14:8, 17:2 - false teaching, the false church is called wine.
Alcohol is of the world and like everything good that God has created, the devil has also corrupted the subject of wine and grapejuice. God said marriage is between a man and a woman, the devil said same sex marriage is ok; God said the sabbath is the seventh day, the devil said it is the first day; God said new wine (grapejuice), the devil said old wine (alcohol). The devil knows the word better than we do and he is trying to corrupt it. He is mixing lies with truth. As christians we should follow the example of Christ. Don't fall for satan's lies.
Matthew 26:29 - But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Genesis 9:20-27 - Ham is cursed because he looked upon his father Noah who was asleep and naked from being drunk.
Genesis 19:32 - Lot's daughters get him drunk and have sex with him. They offspring were the Moabites and Ammonites, enemies of God's children.
Leviticus 10:1-2, 9-10 - Nadab and Abihu got drunk and did not follow God's command and as a result were destroyed by God.
Daniel 5:3-4 - Belshazzar used the vessels from God's temple to drink wine and praise false gods.
In Revelation 14:8, 17:2 - false teaching, the false church is called wine.
Alcohol is of the world and like everything good that God has created, the devil has also corrupted the subject of wine and grapejuice. God said marriage is between a man and a woman, the devil said same sex marriage is ok; God said the sabbath is the seventh day, the devil said it is the first day; God said new wine (grapejuice), the devil said old wine (alcohol). The devil knows the word better than we do and he is trying to corrupt it. He is mixing lies with truth. As christians we should follow the example of Christ. Don't fall for satan's lies.
Matthew 26:29 - But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
P
This topic is a perfect example of how much people will pervert scripture to meet their viewpoint.
There are several specific points made when Jesus turned the water into wine.
1. It was a festive occassion. The only reason for imbibing was the buzz.
2. They thought the best wine had been saved 'til last. Why? Because the best wine was habitually served first because after a few drinks the taste didn't matter.
3. It was a big wedding. Christ made a lot of wine.
4. Not only did Christ not condemn them for drinking an intoxicating beverage purely for recreational purposes, He enabled them to drink by making the wine.
There are several specific points made when Jesus turned the water into wine.
1. It was a festive occassion. The only reason for imbibing was the buzz.
2. They thought the best wine had been saved 'til last. Why? Because the best wine was habitually served first because after a few drinks the taste didn't matter.
3. It was a big wedding. Christ made a lot of wine.
4. Not only did Christ not condemn them for drinking an intoxicating beverage purely for recreational purposes, He enabled them to drink by making the wine.