Who was Lucifer?
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In this first section, we have a prophecy to a "Prince" of Tyre and by the description it's clearly a man...
Ezekiel 28:2
But then the prophecy continues on to Ezekiel 28:12, where another prophecy is given to a "King" of Tyre. But by comparing Ezekiel 28:2-11 to the following passage, this "king" is clearly not a man...
Ezekiel 28:12-13
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
...So this "king" was old enough to be present in Eden, and was perfect in beauty...
Ezekiel 28:14
This "king" was also a class of (what we call) angel called a "cherub", who's primary function was "to cover"...but to cover what? Well if we pause Ezekiel's passage for a moment and reference Exodus 25:17-22:
Exodus 25:17-22
There is no other place (I can find) in scripture where cherubs are associated with "covering" except the throne (mercy seat). Other places cherubs either guard or bear the Lord as a chariot...so if this "king" was "a cherub who covers" then he was of a rank so high that he was one of only two beings that stood beside and covered the very throne of God; a throne that's in the most holiest place of heaven. So this "king" possibly stood by the Most High God of all creation.
[Now if we extrapolate more information from the fact that Christ, The Son, is at God's right hand then it’s probable this "king" was the one figuratively at God's left hand...possibly (if we are to rely on the tabernacle furnishings of the mercy seat as an image of heavenly truth). And if his nature is "to accuse" (i.e. judgment), to me - at least - the left hand would be fitting because as Christ's nature is "to have mercy", this would fit the figurative "arms" of God (judgment and mercy)...but this is just a side study of mine and not completely relevant to the identity of this being we call "Lucifer".]
Continuing with Ezekiel 28...
Ezekiel 28:15
This "king" was perfect until iniquity was found in him, and he was to be "cast out". There is only one main rival in the gospels (Luke 10:18) and Revelation 12 who's associated with being "cast out" of heaven, and that was "The Dragon", "Hasatan". Continuing with Ezekiel 28...
Ezekiel 28:17-19
Now while there are passages that refer to the "angels" as "morning stars" (which shine), in Isaiah 14:12 there is a particular "shining one" ("helel", translated "Lucifer") being prophesied against who has "fallen from heaven". So while the word "lucifer" doesn't appear to be a proper noun, it was a designation for this heavenly being who fell.
So in the Ezekiel prophecy this "king" - who was a “bright” covering cherub - defiled himself and was to be cast down from heaven...and then after that, is to be “brought to ashes (i.e. burned)” for all to witness. This is exactly what the following Revelation prophecy say happens to satan.
Revelation 12:9-10; 20:10
The Dragon, That “old serpent” (a call back to Eden), The devil, satan is cast out...and then later he is hurled in the lake of fire. So this passage links to Ezekiel's passage; satan is the same as "the old serpent from Eden" and the same as "the King of Tyre" and "the cherub who covered", so he was an angel formerly of such a high rank that he had a presence in the most holy place. He was/is an angel of such beauty and brilliance that he allowed himself to become vain; prideful and he fell.
2 Corinthians 11:14
Ezekiel 28:2
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
But then the prophecy continues on to Ezekiel 28:12, where another prophecy is given to a "King" of Tyre. But by comparing Ezekiel 28:2-11 to the following passage, this "king" is clearly not a man...
Ezekiel 28:12-13
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
...So this "king" was old enough to be present in Eden, and was perfect in beauty...
Ezekiel 28:14
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
This "king" was also a class of (what we call) angel called a "cherub", who's primary function was "to cover"...but to cover what? Well if we pause Ezekiel's passage for a moment and reference Exodus 25:17-22:
Exodus 25:17-22
17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
18 And thou shalt make two cherubim of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubim on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubim shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.
21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
18 And thou shalt make two cherubim of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubim on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubim shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be.
21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.
22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
There is no other place (I can find) in scripture where cherubs are associated with "covering" except the throne (mercy seat). Other places cherubs either guard or bear the Lord as a chariot...so if this "king" was "a cherub who covers" then he was of a rank so high that he was one of only two beings that stood beside and covered the very throne of God; a throne that's in the most holiest place of heaven. So this "king" possibly stood by the Most High God of all creation.
[Now if we extrapolate more information from the fact that Christ, The Son, is at God's right hand then it’s probable this "king" was the one figuratively at God's left hand...possibly (if we are to rely on the tabernacle furnishings of the mercy seat as an image of heavenly truth). And if his nature is "to accuse" (i.e. judgment), to me - at least - the left hand would be fitting because as Christ's nature is "to have mercy", this would fit the figurative "arms" of God (judgment and mercy)...but this is just a side study of mine and not completely relevant to the identity of this being we call "Lucifer".]
Continuing with Ezekiel 28...
Ezekiel 28:15
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
This "king" was perfect until iniquity was found in him, and he was to be "cast out". There is only one main rival in the gospels (Luke 10:18) and Revelation 12 who's associated with being "cast out" of heaven, and that was "The Dragon", "Hasatan". Continuing with Ezekiel 28...
Ezekiel 28:17-19
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Now while there are passages that refer to the "angels" as "morning stars" (which shine), in Isaiah 14:12 there is a particular "shining one" ("helel", translated "Lucifer") being prophesied against who has "fallen from heaven". So while the word "lucifer" doesn't appear to be a proper noun, it was a designation for this heavenly being who fell.
So in the Ezekiel prophecy this "king" - who was a “bright” covering cherub - defiled himself and was to be cast down from heaven...and then after that, is to be “brought to ashes (i.e. burned)” for all to witness. This is exactly what the following Revelation prophecy say happens to satan.
Revelation 12:9-10; 20:10
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent [a call back to Eden], called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The Dragon, That “old serpent” (a call back to Eden), The devil, satan is cast out...and then later he is hurled in the lake of fire. So this passage links to Ezekiel's passage; satan is the same as "the old serpent from Eden" and the same as "the King of Tyre" and "the cherub who covered", so he was an angel formerly of such a high rank that he had a presence in the most holy place. He was/is an angel of such beauty and brilliance that he allowed himself to become vain; prideful and he fell.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
you accuse me of paralleling denominations and belief systems that if you looked, you would see no similarity's. You have shown a judgmental attitude that has radiated from your posts simply because you do not agree with me. If it is to try and label people as you say, then you should stop. Please if you want to know who I am, please look at some of my writings at donmasterson.weebly.com. Whether you agree or understand me you will know who I am and why I say what I say.
It is a hard thing to separate God, man and Satan from the writings in the Bible. We are told from within the Bible to take the Bible in what it simply says, being weary even of adding anything. Yet the presumption you offer should be tested. Problem is when the theories start being taught as facts, hence denominations. It is only the pulpit that teaches to come to know God by studying the Bible, God said to go to Him in fellowship and He would reveal himself to us.
So then in your own words, tell us who you think Satan is and why you think that. As you present here, you are in-sighting a dozen different debates into your conclusions and that is called miss-direction. Might I remind you that the question here is who is Satan, Lucifer, the Devil, not what is he going to do.
T
Yes, my understanding here should be tested but so should everything to see if it lines up with God's Word. No, it's not the pulpit that teaches us to study God's Word to know Him better, the Bible itself teaches us to do this (although, as a whole the Bible wasn't compiled until the 3rd century AD). We come to God in fellowship (community) and alone (as individuals), we study the Bible, we pray and listen to the Holy Spirit and what He has to say. That's how God reveals himself to us.
You know, I apologized to you and tried to move on but you're still showing an attitude. After my apology I moved on to the original topic of the thread and yet you're still going on and on. I did not judge you. I did not talk down to you, but you're doing plenty of that yourself. I don't know what else to do other than to avoid communication with you if you cannot forgive and let it go.
If you want to better understand what these terms mean. I can tell what I do. I get an interlinear bible that had greek and English or Hebrew and English. You could also learn greek or Hebrew. Then you read those verse in their original tongue and see if what really translated it into this way or that way.
What do you mean, 'how did the name come about'?
The word "satan" is also a just a designation (like "lucifer" is), and it means [an] "adversary". In scripture, whenever a person's role changed God changed their name. He did it with Abram (to Abraham), Sarai (to Sarah), Jacob (to Israel)...even Jacob's last son; his mom named him Benoni upon her death, but Jacob/Israel named him Bejamin...even Moses's 2nd in command; his name was changed by Moses from Hoshea to Yehoshua (Joshua).
Now as far as the spirit being in question, this "king", this "shining one", this "morning star"; whether people are referring to him as "Lucifer" or "satan" or "hasatan" [i.e. the adversary] they're talking about the same being who once had a high place in the most Holy presence of God who rebelled and lost his position as a consequence, and so lost the right to the designation as [a] "lucifer". He was no longer a "shining one" or a "morning star" but was now a "fallen star" from heaven that took many other "stars" (i.e. angels) with him.
Now when you think of satan, don't think of a hideous red monster/beast creature with a pitchfork or a man dressed in all black, etc. He is a spirit, like all heavenly beings are. The name "satan" is just a description of what he does. For instance...
Zechariah 3
The Hebrew here literally says "ve ha Satan" or "And THE Adversary" (using the definitive article "ha/the", as in "not some random one but THE one")...and this is what The Adversary does, he accuses us to God. He (like a courtroom prosecutor) is always trying to prove we're guilty before God, attempting to prove how we don't measure up; prove how we fall short and deserve our sentence (and this is why you can *easily* spot whenever someone is of that very same spirit...even on this forum...even in this thread).
lucifer (i.e. shining one)
HaSatan (i.e. The Adversary)
Now make no mistake he's not God's adversary, as no one can rival God. No, he's *man's* adversary; our accuser. He was able to test Chris because Christ became a man. But the best example of The Adversary in action is the story of Job (Parentheses and brackets are mine).
Job 1:6-12
The Adversary is always trying to prove we are unworthy and unfaithful and deserving of judgment.
The word "satan" is also a just a designation (like "lucifer" is), and it means [an] "adversary". In scripture, whenever a person's role changed God changed their name. He did it with Abram (to Abraham), Sarai (to Sarah), Jacob (to Israel)...even Jacob's last son; his mom named him Benoni upon her death, but Jacob/Israel named him Bejamin...even Moses's 2nd in command; his name was changed by Moses from Hoshea to Yehoshua (Joshua).
Now as far as the spirit being in question, this "king", this "shining one", this "morning star"; whether people are referring to him as "Lucifer" or "satan" or "hasatan" [i.e. the adversary] they're talking about the same being who once had a high place in the most Holy presence of God who rebelled and lost his position as a consequence, and so lost the right to the designation as [a] "lucifer". He was no longer a "shining one" or a "morning star" but was now a "fallen star" from heaven that took many other "stars" (i.e. angels) with him.
Now when you think of satan, don't think of a hideous red monster/beast creature with a pitchfork or a man dressed in all black, etc. He is a spirit, like all heavenly beings are. The name "satan" is just a description of what he does. For instance...
Zechariah 3
3 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan [וְהַשָּׂטָ֛ן] standing at his right hand to accuse him.
The Hebrew here literally says "ve ha Satan" or "And THE Adversary" (using the definitive article "ha/the", as in "not some random one but THE one")...and this is what The Adversary does, he accuses us to God. He (like a courtroom prosecutor) is always trying to prove we're guilty before God, attempting to prove how we don't measure up; prove how we fall short and deserve our sentence (and this is why you can *easily* spot whenever someone is of that very same spirit...even on this forum...even in this thread).
lucifer (i.e. shining one)
HaSatan (i.e. The Adversary)
Now make no mistake he's not God's adversary, as no one can rival God. No, he's *man's* adversary; our accuser. He was able to test Chris because Christ became a man. But the best example of The Adversary in action is the story of Job (Parentheses and brackets are mine).
Job 1:6-12
Now there was a day when the sons of God (just a label for what we call "angels") came to present themselves before the Lord, and [The Adversary] also came among them (which makes sense because he's also an angel).
7 The Lord said to [The Adversary], “From where have you come?” [The Adversary] answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” (the Lord's very next question implies that The Adversary was looking for people to accuse).
8 And the Lord said to [The Adversary], “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?”
9 Then [The Adversary] answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? Have you not put a hedge (of protection) around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.”
12 And the Lord said to [The Adversary], “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So [The Adversary] went out from the presence of the Lord (to test and prove that Job wouldn't be faithful).
7 The Lord said to [The Adversary], “From where have you come?” [The Adversary] answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” (the Lord's very next question implies that The Adversary was looking for people to accuse).
8 And the Lord said to [The Adversary], “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?”
9 Then [The Adversary] answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? Have you not put a hedge (of protection) around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.”
12 And the Lord said to [The Adversary], “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So [The Adversary] went out from the presence of the Lord (to test and prove that Job wouldn't be faithful).
The Adversary is always trying to prove we are unworthy and unfaithful and deserving of judgment.
I am pleased to begin again, I may be course and abrasive when I fell attacked, but it is from 20 years of hearing unsupportable traditions given as though scripture. Forgive me for my bluntness but I communicate with so many different posts and emails per day, that I have little time to sugar coat thing (Sugar coating, something that never seem to work anyway). May the Lord bless and Keep you.