DRINKING AND THE SCRIPTURES

[The_highwayman]

Timothy was a young (pastor) of the church at Ephesus and Paul instructed Timothy to use a little wine for the sake of his stomach!

Because I like you DC and just to split a frog hair 4 ways, Timothy was not a Pastor, he was an Evangelist...

2 Tim 4.5

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

neaner, neaner, neaner

 

[kylestevenpearce]

Yea, use a little wine for your stomach and your frequent ailments. Amen dc. And Mr. Highwayman, you should be encouraging not disparaging sir.

 

[Stephen63]

Did anyone notice that the words "grape juice" not only isn't in the KJV, it's not in any other, either. The reason? The word "wine" is a generic term that covers ALL grape drinks.

To say all wine is alcoholic is ludicrous. Do you really believe that if 10 gallons of grape juice freshly pressed automatically turns to fermented alcoholic wine? How long did it take to properly ferment 10 gallons of grape juice? What did the people do in the meanwhile, drink bad water? What kind of idiot would tell his family, "you can't drink that till it's fermented"? Children had to be fed, & if grape juice was all there was to drink, they drank it.

Sweet wine, unfermented, is mentioned in the OT.

C'mon, guys, what are you really trying to do by saying there's NO UNFERMENTED GRAPE JUICE mentioned in the NT?

When someone pushes the issue so hard to accuse opposers of changing what the Bible says to solidify their position & calling them heretics in the process, that person's intentions need to be questioned.

I'm a heretic cause I don't agree with the Op? Popular opinion is correct because several agree? Those that disagree are automatically polarized & separated as heretics?

Division IS still division and sin, the last time I looked. Accusing the brethen is still the job of the devil the last time I read my unchanging Bible. I think it's time to look at this whole thread & know people for their fruits like the scriptures tell us. If I'm wrong for saying PROVE ALL THINGS, it will show itself. No one will need to counter it. But if I'm not........

 

[Kerry]

Let me ask this question sipping saints, why do you need it? I meant red kool aid taste better to me. What purpose doe's it serve. Is it something you need or want. Explain, can you go with out?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me ask this question sipping saints, why do you need it? I meant red kool aid taste better to me. What purpose doe's it serve. Is it something you need or want. Explain, can you go with out?

lol.. Not a good question. Why did Christ drink it? That should be your question!

 

[Kerry]

lol.. Not a good question. Why did Christ drink it? That should be your question!

Already been through that. Did they have chlorine in those days? Any way, He said the fruit of the vine, is grape juice the fruit of the vine?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Already been through that. Did they have chlorine in those days? Any way, He said the fruit of the vine, is grape juice the fruit of the vine?

chlorine has nothing to do with it.

If you let grape juice sit, it will ferment, they can also speed it up. you do not need chlorine.

The bible says jesus drank it, the pharisees called him a drunkard. they would not call him this if he was just drinking grape juice.

 

[posthuman]

When someone pushes the issue so hard to accuse opposers of changing what the Bible says to solidify their position & calling them heretics in the process, that person's intentions need to be questioned.

maybe it's true i'm effectively trying to "solidify my position" or accuse others of misinterpreting and twisting the scripture, but i think a plain reading of the text makes it pretty difficult to understand what the master of the feast said to the bridegroom:
“Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.”
(John 2:10)
in any context other than Christ's miracle being turning water into actual wine.

drinking grape nehi "freely" for hours or days doesn't make watered down, off-brand generic purple soda taste just as good.
drinking wine with a non-zero alcoholic content for hours or days makes cheap, watered down wine taste fine.

it's that simple. just let the Word of God say what it says.
perhaps there is a good reason that the Spirit of Truth inspired that verse to be included in the good book, yes?

i'm not in any way opposed to abstinence or moderation. like everyone else in this thread, and the scriptures themselves, i'm opposed to drunkeness (oh look! Biblical unity among the brethren!).

 

[Kerry]

chlorine has nothing to do with it.

If you let grape juice sit, it will ferment, they can also speed it up. you do not need chlorine.

The bible says jesus drank it, the pharisees called him a drunkard. they would not call him this if he was just drinking grape juice.

The Pharisee's called Him a blasphemer and a worker of Satan. I don't put much faith in what the Pharisee's said.

 

[posthuman]

The Pharisee's called Him a blasphemer and a worker of Satan. I don't put much faith in what the Pharisee's said.

well they wouldn't have had a basis for making those accusations if He hadn't clearly made Himself equal with God, or worked miracles, would they?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Pharisee's called Him a blasphemer and a worker of Satan. I don't put much faith in what the Pharisee's said.

lol. The pharisees did not inspire scripture God did.

They called him that because he went against their beliefs. And he was one to them.

Again, they would not call him a drunkard if he was drinking grape juice, they would have destroyed their own standing with the people by making known false claims.

 

[Radius]

I guess my point is this: I would never, ever push anyone to have a drink. so why can't my brothers and sisters in Christ who chose to 100% abstain or have had problems in the past and now are free of addiction simply not let those of us who chose moderation have our freedom of choice and not try to make us out as sinners because we do not do this their way.

I need to abstain from alcohol because I had a problem with it and I have an addictive personality. But if you wantto have no more than a couple beers that's fine. I wouldn't judge any one for that. It's all about motives anyway. Are you drinking to get a buzz? If so it is a sin in my eyes. Do you "need" it? Probably a good idea to put it down. "Do not be mastered by anything".

 

[Radius]

chlorine has nothing to do with it.

If you let grape juice sit, it will ferment, they can also speed it up. you do not need chlorine.

The bible says jesus drank it, the pharisees called him a drunkard. they would not call him this if he was just drinking grape juice.

Yes, the pharisees made many lies about Jesus, that he was demon possessed, breaking the sabbath etc. They always tried to twist everything He said and did.

 

[Stephen63]

chlorine has nothing to do with it.

If you let grape juice sit, it will ferment, they can also speed it up. you do not need chlorine.

The bible says jesus drank it, the pharisees called him a drunkard. they would not call him this if he was just drinking grape juice.

They also said He was a blasphemer & cast out devils thru Beelzebub....... does that mean it's true? Who would believe such hypocrites?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They also said He was a blasphemer & cast out devils thru Beelzebub....... does that mean it's true? Who would believe such hypocrites?

yeah, and??

they as well as many others who followed him believed it also.

are they going to believe them when they call him a drunkard when he is drinking just grape juice.

some people I tell ya!

You do not make known and provable lies to get people to follow you.

 

[Kerry]

Guess I will re post this

Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

 

[watcher2013]

how did the apostles understand "new wine", intoxicating or Not?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

New wine...intoxicating.

 

[Kerry]

Proverbs 23:9

Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

As I said play with a snake you gonna get bit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Proverbs 23:9

Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

As I said play with a snake you gonna get bit.

Thanks.. Next time you post a scripture. make sure you study it all

Tarry long. Meaning it is not spoken to those who just sip wine, or drink it causally, but do not tarry long in drinking it.

Next??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

how did the apostles understand "new wine", intoxicating or Not?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

New wine...intoxicating.

they like ignoring scripture. even though it is proven to them over and over.