DRINKING AND THE SCRIPTURES
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Did anyone notice that the words "grape juice" not only isn't in the KJV, it's not in any other, either. The reason? The word "wine" is a generic term that covers ALL grape drinks.
To say all wine is alcoholic is ludicrous. Do you really believe that if 10 gallons of grape juice freshly pressed automatically turns to fermented alcoholic wine? How long did it take to properly ferment 10 gallons of grape juice? What did the people do in the meanwhile, drink bad water? What kind of idiot would tell his family, "you can't drink that till it's fermented"? Children had to be fed, & if grape juice was all there was to drink, they drank it.
Sweet wine, unfermented, is mentioned in the OT.
C'mon, guys, what are you really trying to do by saying there's NO UNFERMENTED GRAPE JUICE mentioned in the NT?
When someone pushes the issue so hard to accuse opposers of changing what the Bible says to solidify their position & calling them heretics in the process, that person's intentions need to be questioned.
I'm a heretic cause I don't agree with the Op? Popular opinion is correct because several agree? Those that disagree are automatically polarized & separated as heretics?
Division IS still division and sin, the last time I looked. Accusing the brethen is still the job of the devil the last time I read my unchanging Bible. I think it's time to look at this whole thread & know people for their fruits like the scriptures tell us. If I'm wrong for saying PROVE ALL THINGS, it will show itself. No one will need to counter it. But if I'm not........
To say all wine is alcoholic is ludicrous. Do you really believe that if 10 gallons of grape juice freshly pressed automatically turns to fermented alcoholic wine? How long did it take to properly ferment 10 gallons of grape juice? What did the people do in the meanwhile, drink bad water? What kind of idiot would tell his family, "you can't drink that till it's fermented"? Children had to be fed, & if grape juice was all there was to drink, they drank it.
Sweet wine, unfermented, is mentioned in the OT.
C'mon, guys, what are you really trying to do by saying there's NO UNFERMENTED GRAPE JUICE mentioned in the NT?
When someone pushes the issue so hard to accuse opposers of changing what the Bible says to solidify their position & calling them heretics in the process, that person's intentions need to be questioned.
I'm a heretic cause I don't agree with the Op? Popular opinion is correct because several agree? Those that disagree are automatically polarized & separated as heretics?
Division IS still division and sin, the last time I looked. Accusing the brethen is still the job of the devil the last time I read my unchanging Bible. I think it's time to look at this whole thread & know people for their fruits like the scriptures tell us. If I'm wrong for saying PROVE ALL THINGS, it will show itself. No one will need to counter it. But if I'm not........
maybe it's true i'm effectively trying to "solidify my position" or accuse others of misinterpreting and twisting the scripture, but i think a plain reading of the text makes it pretty difficult to understand what the master of the feast said to the bridegroom:
“Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.”
(John 2:10)
in any context other than Christ's miracle being turning water into actual wine.
drinking grape nehi "freely" for hours or days doesn't make watered down, off-brand generic purple soda taste just as good.
drinking wine with a non-zero alcoholic content for hours or days makes cheap, watered down wine taste fine.
it's that simple. just let the Word of God say what it says.
perhaps there is a good reason that the Spirit of Truth inspired that verse to be included in the good book, yes?
i'm not in any way opposed to abstinence or moderation. like everyone else in this thread, and the scriptures themselves, i'm opposed to drunkeness (oh look! Biblical unity among the brethren!).
“Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you have kept the good wine until now.”
(John 2:10)
in any context other than Christ's miracle being turning water into actual wine.
drinking grape nehi "freely" for hours or days doesn't make watered down, off-brand generic purple soda taste just as good.
drinking wine with a non-zero alcoholic content for hours or days makes cheap, watered down wine taste fine.
it's that simple. just let the Word of God say what it says.
perhaps there is a good reason that the Spirit of Truth inspired that verse to be included in the good book, yes?
i'm not in any way opposed to abstinence or moderation. like everyone else in this thread, and the scriptures themselves, i'm opposed to drunkeness (oh look! Biblical unity among the brethren!).
E
lol. The pharisees did not inspire scripture God did.
They called him that because he went against their beliefs. And he was one to them.
Again, they would not call him a drunkard if he was drinking grape juice, they would have destroyed their own standing with the people by making known false claims.
I need to abstain from alcohol because I had a problem with it and I have an addictive personality. But if you wantto have no more than a couple beers that's fine. I wouldn't judge any one for that. It's all about motives anyway. Are you drinking to get a buzz? If so it is a sin in my eyes. Do you "need" it? Probably a good idea to put it down. "Do not be mastered by anything".
how did the apostles understand "new wine", intoxicating or Not?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
New wine...intoxicating.
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
New wine...intoxicating.
K
Proverbs 23:9
Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
As I said play with a snake you gonna get bit.
Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
As I said play with a snake you gonna get bit.