DRINKING AND THE SCRIPTURES

[Daley]

Yes, Paul's word is inferior, and Paul was inferior in every possible way when held up to the ruler that is Messiah. Everyone else in scripture was inferior to Messiah. I am going to listen to Messiah first every single time because every single human is inferior to the son of the Most High, the King at whose throne I wil bow and whose feet I would love to wash with my hair. As I said, follow whoever you want. I will be following the one Paul followed. That means that EVERY WORD out of his mouth is the most important thing I can learn, and anyone who says anything contrary to that word is wrong. Paul had a lot of great advice, but I don't worship Paul.

You don't have a single word Jesus ever wrote, and very little of what he said, because the Gospels paraphrase his statements or put them into the author's own words, not the words of Jesus himself. So did Jesus say "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matt 10:28), or did he say "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more" (Luke 12:4)? Did Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God, or the finger of God? (Matt 12:28; Luke 11:20) There is no end to Gospel writers putting what Jesus said in their own words, so all this talk about you only listening to what Jesus says is rubbish. You are listening to what his disciples Matthew, Mark, Luke and John claimed he said, just as you should listen to what Paul claims he said. If you don't believe Paul, throw his books out the window, but just remember even Peter the Apostle considered Paul's writings to be SCRIPTURE. (2 Peter 3:15-16)

 

[Daley]

isn't it IRONIC

that we can't agree about whether drinking one drop of alcohol is a sin?

Isn't it wonderful how we all agree eating two pounds of salt in a day is wrong? Now wouldn't it be ironic if we couldn't agree on whether eating just one grain of salt in a day was a sin?

 

[posthuman]

Thanks be to Jesus he gave them the best of a non alcoholic wine after all that drinking prior to his arrival, you think?

i believe that no wine on earth since that wedding at Cana can compare with what became of the water those servants poured into the ewers.

 

[posthuman]

Isn't it wonderful how we all agree eating two pounds of salt in a day is wrong? Now wouldn't it be ironic if we couldn't agree on whether eating just one grain of salt in a day was a sin?

life needs water & salt
but the saltiest sea in the world is dead!

 

[posthuman]

Eph. 5:18 “And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;” (“Drunk” in this verse is the Greek word METHUSKO which “signifies to make drunk, of grow drunk (an inceptive verb which marks the process of the state of being drunk” (Vine). The the New Testament not only forbids drunkenness, but also beginning the process of becoming drunk. It therefore forbids drinking, even in “moderation”, because the first glass is the beginning of the process.

how does that carry over with regard to gluttony?

 

[MrsRoseTreasure]

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Nasty habit, that. I never said I don't believe Paul. I merely said he was human and less of a person than Messiah. Are you arguing that? Then stick to the topic of what I actually said.

Perhaps the eye witnesses and researchers quoted the words of Messiah wrongly. If you believe it's so flawed, why are you following it? To that end, even Moses could have misquoted God, right?

I'm not saying the letter writers were wrong or flawed, only that the word of Messiah comes first in my life. I again say you can follow and believe and worship (give worth to) whomever it pleases you to follow. For myself I will follow Messiah's example, even in the face of your disapproval.

You don't have a single word Jesus ever wrote, and very little of what he said, because the Gospels paraphrase his statements or put them into the author's own words, not the words of Jesus himself. So did Jesus say "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matt 10:28), or did he say "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more" (Luke 12:4)? Did Jesus cast out demons by the Spirit of God, or the finger of God? (Matt 12:28; Luke 11:20) There is no end to Gospel writers putting what Jesus said in their own words, so all this talk about you only listening to what Jesus says is rubbish. You are listening to what his disciples Matthew, Mark, Luke and John claimed he said, just as you should listen to what Paul claims he said. If you don't believe Paul, throw his books out the window, but just remember even Peter the Apostle considered Paul's writings to be SCRIPTURE. (2 Peter 3:15-16)

 

[Angela53510]

As I pointed out many pages ago, you cannot really use the New Testament to prove anything about this debate, because the Greek culture was so debauched that it only had one word for wine and that was oinos.

Turn to the language of God's people, and you have a totally different story. Look in Strong's. Two main words for wine - one alcoholic yayin, always bad references. To what happens when you drink - you get drunk. And condemned over and over by God's prophets.

An example of yayin

“Moreover, wine is a traitor,
an arrogant man who is never at rest.
His greed is as wide as Sheol;
like death he has never enough.
He gathers for himself all nations
and collects as his own all peoples.”" Hab. 2:5

"Whoever loves pleasure will be a poor man;
he who loves wine and oil will not be rich." Prov. 21:17

Then there is tiyrosh, or new wine, meaning grape juice.

"then your barns will be filled with plenty,
and your vats will be bursting with wine." Prov. 3:9-10

Interesting when God promises to reward the Hebrews, he gives them new wine, not alcoholic beverages.

This is one place you really have to use the Hebrew, not the Greek to determine whether alcohol is acceptable or not.

I had no idea the Christian church was in such a disreputable state these days. One can only pray that the representations by some of the members here is not representative of Christ's church. Nothing like collapsing from within!

I do not believe there is any place for moderation with regards to drinking of alcoholic wine. It has proven to be a destroyer of people, and that means many people, many marriages, and many lives.

 

[Stephen63]

Angela, apostasy is like the death of a loved one you knew was dying....... no matter how you plan for it, how much you expect it, it will still shock you when it happens. Every time I see new evidence of apostasy, it takes me off guard, even though I know it's coming.

 

[Shava]

how does that carry over with regard to gluttony?

Eat what's good for you in moderation, except on Friday's, go for it. lolol

 

[quickened77]

As I pointed out many pages ago, you cannot really use the New Testament to prove anything about this debate, because the Greek culture was so debauched that it only had one word for wine and that was oinos.

Turn to the language of God's people, and you have a totally different story. Look in Strong's. Two main words for wine - one alcoholic yayin, always bad references. To what happens when you drink - you get drunk. And condemned over and over by God's prophets.

An example of yayin

“Moreover, wine is a traitor,
an arrogant man who is never at rest.
His greed is as wide as Sheol;
like death he has never enough.
He gathers for himself all nations
and collects as his own all peoples.”" Hab. 2:5

"Whoever loves pleasure will be a poor man;
he who loves wine and oil will not be rich." Prov. 21:17

Then there is tiyrosh, or new wine, meaning grape juice.

"then your barns will be filled with plenty,
and your vats will be bursting with wine." Prov. 3:9-10

Interesting when God promises to reward the Hebrews, he gives them new wine, not alcoholic beverages.

This is one place you really have to use the Hebrew, not the Greek to determine whether alcohol is acceptable or not.

I had no idea the Christian church was in such a disreputable state these days. One can only pray that the representations by some of the members here is not representative of Christ's church. Nothing like collapsing from within!

I do not believe there is any place for moderation with regards to drinking of alcoholic wine. It has proven to be a destroyer of people, and that means many people, many marriages, and many lives.

Another example of yayin Gen 14 [18] And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

 

[phil112]

As I pointed out many pages ago, you cannot really use the New Testament to prove anything about this debate, because the Greek culture was so debauched that it only had one word for wine and that was oinos.

Turn to the language of God's people, and you have a totally different story. Look in Strong's. Two main words for wine - one alcoholic yayin, always bad references. ...............................................This is one place you really have to use the Hebrew, not the Greek to determine whether alcohol is acceptable or not......................................

Okay, let's look at strongs.

Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. [SUP] [/SUP]And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
[SUP] [/SUP]When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine[SUP]3631[/SUP]

3631 NT - Greek[oinoV]
oinos oy'-nosa primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin (yayin 3196)); "wine" (literally or figuratively):--wine.

You folks really reach to make the bible say what you want it to say. You want it to say something it does not, and you cannot accept the truth.

you cannot really use the New Testament to prove anything about this debate

It must devastate Christ to see that His words and actions are brushed aside as so much nonsense. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Plain and simple, this is the key to it all: "Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand."
You folks should get as far away from mans doctrine as you can, not rush to embrace it.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

 

[Bowman]

So you think they have pubs and clubs in heaven and they sit around drinking alcohol? There was no alcohol when God created the earth it was all fresh.

Jesus said that he will drink alcohol again in Heaven....and a literal reading of the Greek indicates that The Righteous in Heaven will be reclining, eating and drinking in the presence of God.

 

[homwardbound]

some get buzzed on one glass, legally intoxicated on two, and would fail a breath test. Be truthful those that choose to drink, is it for the taste or the buzz, i can hardly believe its only for the taste.

It is nothing more than a self medicating self in relief from the days pressures and capitalized on from the maker, using the need of every person to escape tension and rest, is how i see it being an Ex-Alcoholic, thanks to God and God alone for showing me truth that set me free from it 29years ago and am not bragging, just thanking

 

[homwardbound]

Proverbs 23:29-35, Romans 13:11-14, 1 Corinthians 6:9-20, 1John 3:7-1, Ecclesiastes11:9, Matthew 24: 42-51. here are some scriptures, i don't know the copy paste thing, and typing would take a while, so if someone else could, that would be great.

[h=3]Proverbs 23:29-35[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]29 [/SUP]Who hath woe? who hath sorrow?
who hath contentions? who hath babbling?
who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
[SUP]30 [/SUP]they that tarry long at the wine;
they that go to seek mixed wine.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Look not thou upon the wine when it is red,
when it giveth his colour in the cup,
when it moveth itself aright.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]At the last it biteth like a serpent,
and stingeth like an adder.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Thine eyes shall behold strange women,
and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea,
or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick;
they have beaten me, and I felt it not:
when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.



[h=3]Romans 13:11-14[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. [SUP]12 [/SUP]The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


[h=3]1 Corinthians 6:9-20[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [SUP]10 [/SUP]nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. [SUP]16 [/SUP]What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. [SUP]19 [/SUP]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? [SUP]20 [/SUP]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.


[h=3]1 John 3:7-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [SUP]10 [/SUP]In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.


[h=3]Ecclesiastes 11:9[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Rejoice, O young man, in thy youth; and let thy heart cheer thee in the days of thy youth, and walk in the ways of thine heart, and in the sight of thine eyes: but know thou, that for all these things God will bring thee into judgment.








[h=3]Matthew 24:42-51[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]42 [/SUP]Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
[SUP]43 [/SUP]But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. [SUP]44 [/SUP]Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. [SUP]45 [/SUP]Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? [SUP]46 [/SUP]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. [SUP]47 [/SUP]Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. [SUP]48 [/SUP]But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; [SUP]49 [/SUP]and shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; [SUP]50 [/SUP]the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, [SUP]51 [/SUP]and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Right click mouse and pull mouse over what you want, it hightlights over it, let go and right click again see copy in the list and click copy, then go to where oyu want to paste it, right click and hit paste in the list, hope that helps

 

[homwardbound]

My problem isn't the booze issue, but that there are those that are teaching Jesus drank alcoholic wine, created alcoholic wine for people to get drunk on, making it acceptable for them to drink it themselves. If you want to drink, then drink! Just don't drag Jesus down to your level to do it!

It seems man either excuses or accuses, what is up with that? To fit my fleshly desires? And use Christ as my scape goat the same as hey Brother sorry I was drunk as the excuse for my bad behavior, excusing it for me, bit not for others.
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! accusing and excusing just to fit me and what I think I need for the moment.

So I say maybe why nbot give up what one thinks they need for the moment seeing what they need in the long run.
Asking is what I am about to do or not do beneficial, trusting you God to show me.

 

[homwardbound]

I can say this I would rather be prayed up filled with the Holy Ghost than drunk with the wine that perishes and corrupts . Let us then walk in the fullness of Christ being in all manner consecrated and Holy unto God for the example Jesus spoke highly of was john the baptist which did not drink but was spoken very highly by the Lord of the sabbath Our Lord Jesus Christ....

Drunk and overflowing in the Spirit of truth rejoicing:
Psalm 100:4 Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

Has your joy ever consumed you so much that druggies and alcoholics, wanted what you got, knowing you don't drink or do drugs?
Now when that happens to you, you are drunk in the "Spirit of God"

 

[homwardbound]

you can say all you want about if Jesus drank wine or what we would call grape juice. the fact it nowhere in the Bible does it say that the consumption of alcohol is a sin. the word temperance that Paul uses can mean abstinence or moderation. so either is fine by Biblical standards.

Each and every man needs to know his own limitations and do them, Me no Alcohol, no drugs that cause out of balance mind Spirit and soul, only drunk on the Spirit of God rejoicing in his finished work for us to new life in the Spirit where today is the only way Father is worshiped in Spirit and truth, drunk and consumed in Father's righteousness, basked and bathed trusting relaxing, thanking , stressed out toooooooooooooooooo much before seeing the new drunken life in the Spirit of God via the resurrected Christ in Spirit and truth
praying everyone comes to this truth and see the best wine ever created that is not alcoholic, Spirit filled is what it is

 

[homwardbound]

Isaiah 5:21-24 (KJV) [SUP]21 [/SUP]Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! [SUP]22 [/SUP]Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: [SUP]23 [/SUP]Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

It is true that we're not Israel...... but here we see God's attitude towards such people that do these things, yes?

See God's unfathomable Love in the Spirit first and thus love as God does, seeing your own limitations, to keep in the love that odes not harm neighbor per God, because the deeper one sees God's love for them the deeper one loves back
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

 

[homwardbound]

It should make christians think about the connection between spirits and alcohol, seeing how another name for alcohol is spirits, just saying.

There is a Spirit of Flesh and the Holy Spirit of God. I choose God's Spirit to lead as Christ did this very same here on earth as a great example for us to see and be, through belief be led by God just as Christ was led. We thus walk as he walked drunk in the Spirit of God not flesh. Is this not what he came here to do, to give us new life in the Spirit of God?

 

[Shava]

Jesus said that he will drink alcohol again in Heaven....and a literal reading of the Greek indicates that The Righteous in Heaven will be reclining, eating and drinking in the presence of God.

He's talking about taking the Lord's supper when they all get there and that is the fruit of the vine, which is grape juice. They always took grape juice, or as they called it fruit of the vine.