Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[JDecree]

Maybe that was one of the reasons why he decided in not using instruments as what you have said, because they were probably scarce and people couldn't afford them Maybe that was one of his reasons for singing like you said, you don't need anything but your mouth, thank you for answering my question on possibilities on why he decided to go with singing only, makes complete sense.

So it was a convenience factor, one of such importance that any church that has the means to afford instruments is hell bound?

No, I think if it can lead to spiritual death, there is a far better reason than that.

 

[Shava]

What most people will notice is that the we do not use mechanical instruments in worship. This is because a cappella singing is the only form of music authorized by the New Testament. There are only 8 verses in the New Testament regarding music in worship (Matt. 26:30; Acts 16:25; Rom. 15:9; 1 Corinthians 14:15; Eph. 5:18-19; Col. 3:16; Heb. 2:12; James 5:13) and not one of them mentions mechanical instruments. God has left it out, and so do we. Instead, we are to speak to one another and make melody in our hearts (Eph. 5:19), offering to God the sacrifice of praise by the fruit of our lips (Heb. 13:15).
Many attempt to use the Old Testament as authorization for instrumental music in worship. What these fail to recognize is that the old covenant was made with the nation of Israel (Exodus 20; Deuteronomy 5), and we are not obligated to keep the old law (Acts 15:24). We are now part of a "better covenant" (Heb. 8:6) as foretold by the prophet Jeremiah (Jerimiah 31:31). Christ has "made the first obsolete" (Heb. 8:13), "having nailed it to the cross" (Col. 2:14), and has put His new covenant into force (Heb. 9:16-17). In rightly dividing God's Word (2 Tim. 2:15), we see that what is currently in force does not authorize instrumental music in worship.

 

[JDecree]

When in doubt, copy paste

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Upon investigating these NT scriptures it seems to me there is nothing within them that says you may not use instruments. By inference that you should make psalms in your hearts and our understanding of a Psalm being a song accompanied by instruments, this seems to me to indirectly infer that instruments are permissable. However, singing is also permissible and encouraged so I am not trying to diminish that fact either. And it does seem to me the human voice is more powerful than any mechanical instrument even if instruments are permissable.

The closest thing I could find that would seem to support the theory that instruments are not permisible would be the fact that the first instrument maker described in the Bible is Jubal son of Lamech of the House of Cain (Though whether or not this was good, bad, or indifferent is not mentioned.) Though I suppose you could argue that is OT scripture and no longer applies somehow.

 

[Donkeyfish07]

shava's denomination sounds like babylon...

revelation 18:22..."The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters,will never be heard in you again. No worker of any trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again."

lol, that really cracked me up.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Oh dear not again....

 

[Angela53510]

As I said, just because the Bible doesn't specifically say there were not instruments doesn't mean there were not any. And because they were rare, doesn't mean in some fellowships, some upper class Greek woman didn't bring her harp or lute to accompany the music.

As Stilly already pointed out, the believers in Eph. 5:19 worshiped with Psalms, and the Psalms are replete with instruments, esp. in the final ones. David played a harp, and wrote those Psalms. As for the actual verses, a look at the Greek is VERY revealing!

"addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart," Eph. 5:19

According to The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament,** the word for singing, is in fact psalmois (ψαλμοῖς) which specifically means:

verb: primarily the plucking of the strings,
noun: used of sacred songs chanted to the accompaniment of instrumental music.

"[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God." Col. 3:16

Besides, the command in Col 3:16 are to "let the word of Christ dwell richly in you." The verb "dwell" is enoikeo (ἐνοικείτω) is in the Present Imperative Active 3rd person sing. That means the command is that the Word of God is commanded to dwell, live in, or take up one's home in us. But the other verbs, like teaching (διδάσκοντες), admonishing (διδάσκοντες), are present active participles, NOT in the command tense. As for the word "singing" which is a participle in English, it does not appear in the Greek at all! Instead, only the word psalmois (ψαλμοῖς,) once again appears and as we have already seen in Eph. 5:19, this word has the idea of a song WITH musical accompaniment!!!

So in other words, the entire basis of your theology of no instruments, is not scriptural. Paul knew the Greek well, he used the words that specifically expressed what he meant. Greek is a rich language, and these meanings do not come out in the English.

Suffice it to say, your entire theology, based on two verses is in fact not true. Paul used the word Psalmois ψαλμοῖς, because the word actually means singing with INSTRUMENTS!!

My thought is to get someone in your cult who understands the text in Greek, and then you won't make these ridiculous statements which are not based on the Biblical text!

** The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, by Cleon L. Rogers Jr. & Cleon L. Rogers III, ZondervanPublishingHouse, Grand Rapids Michigan:1998.

 

[KSublett]

Think about this for a moment: Ephesians 5 says
SPEAKING to yourselves WITH Psalms, Hymns, Spiritual songs or in Romans 15 "that which is written for our learning with one mind and one mouth.
ANTITHESIS: ODE and PSALLO in the heart (place) to God. Paul has set up several antithetical statements earlier where the resource is "The Will of God."
The speak words related to LOGOS such as LEXIS is the opposite of ODE and ODE is defined as the opposite of LEXIS.

In 1 Corinthians 14 for those wanting to sing, pray or speak something not edifying (teaching) Paul told them to be silent and speak to God.

The purpose is to Teach and Comfort one another. That leaves 167 hours during the week to enjoy all of the music we wish. That would remove most of the discord.

 

[Shava]

As I said, just because the Bible doesn't specifically say there were not instruments doesn't mean there were not any. And because they were rare, doesn't mean in some fellowships, some upper class Greek woman didn't bring her harp or lute to accompany the music.

As Stilly already pointed out, the believers in Eph. 5:19 worshiped with Psalms, and the Psalms are replete with instruments, esp. in the final ones. David played a harp, and wrote those Psalms. As for the actual verses, a look at the Greek is VERY revealing!

"addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart," Eph. 5:19

According to The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament,** the word for singing, is in fact psalmois (ψαλμοῖς) which specifically means:

verb: primarily the plucking of the strings,
noun: used of sacred songs chanted to the accompaniment of instrumental music.

"[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God." Col. 3:16

Besides, the command in Col 3:16 are to "let the word of Christ dwell richly in you." The verb "dwell" is enoikeo (ἐνοικείτω) is in the Present Imperative Active 3rd person sing. That means the command is that the Word of God is commanded to dwell, live in, or take up one's home in us. But the other verbs, like teaching (διδάσκοντες), admonishing (διδάσκοντες), are present active participles, NOT in the command tense. As for the word "singing" which is a participle in English, it does not appear in the Greek at all! Instead, only the word psalmois (ψαλμοῖς,) once again appears and as we have already seen in Eph. 5:19, this word has the idea of a song WITH musical accompaniment!!!

So in other words, the entire basis of your theology of no instruments, is not scriptural. Paul knew the Greek well, he used the words that specifically expressed what he meant. Greek is a rich language, and these meanings do not come out in the English.

Suffice it to say, your entire theology, based on two verses is in fact not true. Paul used the word Psalmois ψαλμοῖς, because the word actually means singing with INSTRUMENTS!!

My thought is to get someone in your cult who understands the text in Greek, and then you won't make these ridiculous statements which are not based on the Biblical text!

** The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament, by Cleon L. Rogers Jr. & Cleon L. Rogers III, ZondervanPublishingHouse, Grand Rapids Michigan:1998.

First of all to make you more knowledgeable on who we are, we're definitely not a cult. You obviously know nothing about the Church of Christ if you choose to use the word cult. We are a non-denominational church being autonomous and came into existence in the year 33 A.D. We are the ONLY true church of the bible, and the only church that worships according to God, not man. Romans 16:16 Now maybe this info will help you in understanding Ephesians 5:19,

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[h=1]Ephesians 5:19 — Making Melody[/h] By Wayne Jackson

The inspired apostle admonishes the saints:

“And be not drunken with wine, wherein is riot, but be filled with the Spirit; speaking one to another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody [psalontes] with your heart to the Lord” (Ephesians 5:18,19).​

Psalontes is from the Greek psallo. Advocates of the use of instrumental music in Christian worship claim that the term means to “pluck,” and therefore it authorizes the use of an instrument in church worship.
Several things can be said in response to this argument:

1. Since “making melody” is a part of the command, if an instrument of music is included in the term, then every person in the congregation who sings is likewise obligated to play an instrument.
2. W.E. Vine writes:
   
   
   “The word psallo originally meant to play a stringed instrument with the fingers, or to sing with the accompaniment of a harp. Later, however, and in the New Testament, it came to signify simply to praise without the accompaniment of an instrument” (First Corinthians, p. 191).​
3. If psallo did retain some association with “plucking” in the first century, the instrument would have to be supplied by the context. F.F. Bruce, not an opponent of the instrument in worship, admits that “the melody with which [Paul] is principally concerned is the melody of the heart, which accompanies the vocal singing” (Questions Answered, p. 107). The heart is the spiritual instrument of this context; no mechanical instrument is implied.
4. McClintock & Strong observe that though some contend that psallein allows the use of the instrument, if such is the case it is strange that the early church fathers make no mention of instrumental music in their worship (Cyclopedia, Vol. VI, p. 759).

Underline the phrase “making melody with your heart,” and comment: No warrant for mechanical instrument; “heart” is the instrument.

 

[KSublett]

I wanted too long to edit to say that the translation into Greek, the Septuagint, used the PSAO type words because they understood that many of the Psalms are considered warrior chants: the Levites were under the King and Commanders of the army. For instance, the word PSALLO has the same root meaning as SOP meaning to grind something into a fine powder.

In truth PSALLO cannot be said to MEAN something: it all depends on how the word is used in context. The first and most important concept is something smitten with the fingers and never with a plectrum (guitar pick). I can never be used of anything plucked but in the primary sense making a bowstring twang to send forth a singing arrow.

When psallo type words are used in the Greek literature it never carries a musical or spiritual meaning.

Pluck means pluck: if you into to pluck a harp then it takes two words, or in the literature a compound word. If you want to sing to a harp Paul could have used PsalmODIA. In the Old Testament psallo (play or pluck) is always accompanied with what is to be plucked: a bow string, a harp string or the enemies hair.

Psallo itself has no "musical" content and it cannot be used of a wind or percussion instrument or a piano or organ.

 

[RedTent]

As a member of the Church of Christ I cannot believe what has happened in the last twenty years in which some Churches of Christ have decided to add instruments to their worshipping, which I feel is a sin. If you are a member of a Church of Christ who has instruments in your church, tell me where you got your authorization to do this? What has changed in the last twenty years to change how you have decided to worship with instruments when the Churches of Christ prior to the last twenty years were always instrument free .

To report something about God that scripture does not directly say is not right, if it isn't down right sinful.

You have also reported that instruments are condemned by God as not to be used to worship Him. You are also reporting that what God the Father, Your Creator has given you as scripture is not correct because it is in the wrong section of the bible, the Old Testament. You have reported that Christ said the Old Testament was not for us, that is not correct. You say it is right to cut yourself off from a large part of the word of God. That is not right for you to do.

While I sit at my piano playing hymns and praising God with the music and words, you are sitting there judging me. Even as our Savior gives instructions about how to pray, we are told that you cannot enter in the kingdom of God for this, for it is a barrier you erect between you and the Savior being able to forgive your sins when you sit in judgment of me for something God does not say He judges me for.

Also, you are adding your own conclusions to scripture, something that must never be done. When scripture talks of singing, you are adding the words "no instruments". You may not do this to scripture.

 

[Shava]

So it was a convenience factor, one of such importance that any church that has the means to afford instruments is hell bound?

No, I think if it can lead to spiritual death, there is a far better reason than that.

Actually it's a command factor. The problem I see is the lack of understanding Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3;16 which some are not interpreting it correctly. But you know if you have command by God to sing only, then just do it. Some on here think psalms means instruments only, which seems to confuse some people in believing that false doctrine.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Hopefully I will not get in knee deep in this discussion like I did in the last thread, and I am actually gonna try to be neutral in this one, but I am gonna ask if instrumental music meets NT criteria.

1. Does instrumental music mean one is worshiping in spirit and in truth? John 16:13
2. 2 Tim 3:16-17 says all good works are recorded in scripture. Is instrumental music in NT scripture?
3. Is instrumental music part of the "perfect law of liberty." James 1:25


Also, what is the history of instrumental music in churches? When did it begin? Is it worthy of God according to the NY or is it human tradition? Again. I am trying to be neutral here. Don't even consider what my views are.

 

[Shava]

To report something about God that scripture does not directly say is not right, if it isn't down right sinful.

You have also reported that instruments are condemned by God as not to be used to worship Him. You are also reporting that what God the Father, Your Creator has given you as scripture is not correct because it is in the wrong section of the bible, the Old Testament. You have reported that Christ said the Old Testament was not for us, that is not correct. You say it is right to cut yourself off from a large part of the word of God. That is not right for you to do.

While I sit at my piano playing hymns and praising God with the music and words, you are sitting there judging me. Even as our Savior gives instructions about how to pray, we are told that you cannot enter in the kingdom of God for this, for it is a barrier you erect between you and the Savior being able to forgive your sins when you sit in judgment of me for something God does not say He judges me for.

Also, you are adding your own conclusions to scripture, something that must never be done. When scripture talks of singing, you are adding the words "no instruments". You may not do this to scripture.

Instruments in worship isn't allowed because God says so, not I. He even gives you commands to sing only and you ignore that. There's nothing wrong with instruments, but it is when it comes to worshipping the way God commands, and he commands singing only, Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16 are our commands to sing only.

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[h=1]Do the Psalms Authorize Instrumental Music in Worship?[/h] By Wayne Jackson
“I realize that the law of Moses, which replaced the Patriarchal law, was annulled by Jesus’ death on the cross. I further understand that we have the law of Christ today. A favorite argument, however, of those desiring to use musical instruments in worship is to refer to Psalms. Since the Jews referred to the Old Testament in three areas — law, prophets (including history books), and psalms (including the Song of Solomon, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and Job) — how can we know that Psalms, and the other books of wisdom literature, were annulled along with the law and the prophets?”
While it is true that the Jews sometimes divided the Old Testament into three parts (e.g. – the law, the prophets, and the psalms – Lk. 24:44), it is also the case that at times the Old Testament was depicted by different, more abbreviated expressions. For example, it is called the “law and the prophets” (Mt. 5:17), or “Moses and the prophets” (Lk. 16:31) — in which case the poetic books were covered under one of these phrases.
More to the point, however, is the fact that the Psalms were sometimes referred to as “law.” In a discussion with the Jews, in which he contended for his own divine nature, Jesus said:
“Is it not written in your law, ‘I said you are gods’?” (Jn. 10:34).
The Lord is quoting from Psalms 82:6, yet he simply calls it “law.” Thus, the term “law” could embrace the entire Old Testament.
Finally, if the Psalms are binding as law today, then animal sacrifices are still an obligation, because the Psalms contain references to offering sacrifices (see Psa. 66:13-15). That conclusion would nullify the complete and permanent sacrifice of Jesus Christ on behalf of human sin.
One must not resurrect any Old Testament practice in an attempt to justify worship conduct under the New Covenant regime. If the use of instrumental music in Christian worship is to be sanctioned, there must be New Testament authority for such. And the reality is, there is none — a fact which some advocates of instrumental music now concede. A current ploy is that “authority” is an irrelevant issue. This is a disastrous conclusion of last resort.

 

[Shava]

Christ says he has "all authority" and the disciples were to teach the things He had commanded. (Matthew 28:18-20) Nowhere in the New Testament did the apostles teach or show an example of the use of instrumental music in worship of the church. ALL of the verses in the New Testament that talk about music in the church have SINGING as the type of music.

To use another type of music cannot be done from authority found in the New Testament because the New Testament nowhere authorizes its use. The authority to use instruments in the Christian church therefore does not come from God. If used, instruments must be authorized by men. If we follow a man's authority (teaching), does Christ still have "all authority" in our religious lives? Most is not the same as “all”!

One of the verses that teaches about music is Col. 3:16. This verse specifically tells us to sing. The very next verse (verse 17) says, "Whatever you do in word or deed, DO ALL IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS."

"In the name of" means by the authority of, or according to the instructions. Jesus and the apostles did not authorize the use of mechanical instruments in the New Testament church. You cannot play an instrument by the authority, according to the instructions of, or in the name of Christ because he did not instruct it.

The New Testament did specify "singing" as the type of music we are to use in worship. To do anything else is to follow the commandments (doctrine) of men rather than God. "Teaching as doctrine the commandments of men" makes worship “vain”, or useless in God’s eyes! (Matt. 15:9) Why not be satisfied to worship in the way God's word has authorized? “We ought to obey God rather than men”! (Acts 5:29)

When God told Noah to use "gopher wood", other types of wood were excluded. When Naaman was told to dip in the Jordan River, he knew other rivers were excluded (2 Kings 5:12). God has been specific about the music in the church, singing. Why add to his word?

Interesting, many of the founding fathers of denominations that now use instruments were opposed to their introduction. Among those against instrumental music were John Wesley, Adam Clark, John Calvin, and Martin Luther. So one should not question why we don't use them, the question should be "By what authority do you add them to your worship"? Why not be satisfied to simply worship as God's word instructs?

Some point out that David used instruments. As for David’s harp, He lived under the Law of Moses (Old Testament). We are now under the Law of Christ (New Testament). If you bind one part of the Old Law today, you are subject to keep the whole law.

In Galatians 5:3, some were trying to bind circumcision, an Old Testament commandment. Paul said if they bound this one item, they were “debtor to keep the whole law”. In James 2:10, if you keep the whole law, but miss one point, you are guilty of all.

If you try to bring over authority for David’s harp from the Old Testament, you must with the same authority bring over all of the animal sacrifices, feasts, Passover, the Sabbath day observance, yearly trips to Jerusalem, and the all of the other Old Testament commands. We must keep the whole law if we keep any part.

If we try to justify ourselves by the Law of Moses, we have “fallen from grace!” (Galatians 5:4)

God is not worshiped with men's hands (Acts 17:25) but with the heart. This verse talks about God not living in a temple made with hands, but it also applies this to hand-made worship, yet many say they worship on an instrument that was made with hands and played with the hands.

The instrument God wants is our heart.

Ephesians 5:19 instructs us to make melody in the heart. The verses in the New Testament also say the purpose of music in worship is to speak and teach.

An instrument cannot do this. In fact, it is more difficult to speak where there is background noise, therefore an instrument may interfere with these scriptural purposes of music in worship.

We should not add to or take away from God’s word. We should worship as he instructs! The New Testament does not instruct the use of a mechanical instrument in worship, so the church of Christ has no authority from the Bible to add it.

Yes it would seem that at times, God at least tolerated instruments in the Old Testament, but we now have a new covenant, the New Testament.

Also by the end of the Old Testament, God’s word says, “Woe to you… Who sing idly to the sound of stringed instruments, and invent for yourselves musical instruments like David” (Amos 6:3-5)

Does this sound like God now wants instruments?

Every verse in the New Testament that speaks of music in the church is listed below. Why not read what the Bible says, and do what the New Testament says in the way it says to do it?

______
Trinity: Yes the church of Christ believes in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are what makes up the Godhead. (The word "Trinity" is not in the Bible.)

Jesus referenced all three in Matthew 28:18-20. All three can are referenced at the baptism of Christ. (Matthew 3:16-17)

Notice 1 John 5:7: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." ("The Word" refers to Jesus - See John, chapter 1.)
[h=3]Source:[/h] Matthew 26:30
Mark 14:26
Acts 16:25
Romans 15:9
1 Corinthians 14:15
Ephesians 5:19
Colossians 3:16-17
Hebrews 2:12
Hebrews 13:15
James 5:13

 

[RedTent]

Instruments in worship isn't allowed because God says so, not I. He even gives you commands to sing only and you ignore that. There's nothing wrong with instruments, but it is when it comes to worshipping the way God commands, and he commands singing only, Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16 are our commands to sing only.

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Eph 5:19 speaking to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and making music from your heart to the Lord,

Col 3:16 Let the message about the Messiah dwell richly among you, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, and singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, with gratitude in your hearts to God.

You would have to add the word "no instruments" to these scriptures and it is sinful to add to God's word with your own words.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Eph 5:19 speaking to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, singing and making music from your heart to the Lord,

Col 3:16 Let the message about the Messiah dwell richly among you, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, and singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, with gratitude in your hearts to God.

You would have to add the word "no instruments" to these scriptures and it is sinful to add to God's word with your own words.

Wait, if the passages clearly say speaking and singing then wouldn't adding instruments to worship being adding to the teachings?

 

[1still_waters]

The OT shows music with singing.
Revelation shows music with singing in heaven.

In order for us to be lead to believe that music doesn't go with singing NOW, we'd need a very explicit command not to use it.
There is no explicit command to disassociate music from singing.

 

[Elizabeth619]

The OT shows music with singing.
Revelation shows music with singing in heaven.

In order for us to be lead to believe that music doesn't go with singing NOW, we'd need a very explicit command not to use it.
There is no explicit command to disassociate music from singing.

In other words stopping at TWO scriptures and refusing to intensely study the rest of scripture about a topic is a bad idea. I agree.

 

[kayem77]

Wait, if the passages clearly say speaking and singing then wouldn't adding instruments to worship being adding to the teachings?

We could do that with a lot of verses, not just this one. Just because the verse doens't mention musical instruments, doesn't mean it's forbidding them. Since musical instruments were used in the OT, it would make sense to think that it wasn't needed to state that people could use musical instruments in the NT also. If God had changed his mind, I think He would've made sure that there was a verse in the NT prohibiting the practice. But there isn't.

Also, this link provides a good answer : Are we supposed to use musical instruments in church?