Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[Elizabeth619]

We could do that with a lot of verses, not just this one. Just because the verse doens't mention musical instruments, doesn't mean it's forbidding them. Since musical instruments were used in the OT, it would make sense to think that it wasn't needed to state that people could use musical instruments in the NT also. If God had changed his mind, I think He would've made sure that there was a verse in the NT prohibiting the practice. But there isn't.

Also, this link provides a good answer : Are we supposed to use musical instruments in church?

We could use this argument for many things. Not just instruments. We are not bound by the OT. Many things happened in the OT that isn't permitted in the church today. I am just wondering are we picking and choosing what we WANT to practice or are we going by scripture?
Theres quite a few people in this thread that have made comments that amaze me. They're quick to defend "no it isn't outright mentioned in scripture but its ok" while in other threads speaking against the eating of certain foods, obvservation of holidays, and certain other practices Christians may be involved with.

 

[RedTent]

Wait, if the passages clearly say speaking and singing then wouldn't adding instruments to worship being adding to the teachings?

Yes it would, if we said that God said we must use instruments. It doesn't say this. It is the same way it does not support "you may not use instruments".

 

[RedTent]

We could use this argument for many things. Not just instruments. We are not bound by the OT. Many things happened in the OT that isn't permitted in the church today. I am just wondering are we picking and choosing what we WANT to practice or are we going by scripture?
Theres quite a few people in this thread that have made comments that amaze me. They're quick to defend "no it isn't outright mentioned in scripture but its ok" while in other threads speaking against the eating of certain foods, obvservation of holidays, and certain other practices Christians may be involved with.

When you go to the Old Testament, especially if you study it with a scholar who can help you tie it in with the NT, you will see that God is very precise about how and what Christ fulfilled, and by studying the OT you can see just what it was and how that Christ fulfilled it. Christ became our High Priest, scripture tells us so. If we check all of OT for what the High Priest was responsible for, it gives a clear picture of just how Christ fulfills this role for us. It is through Christ's blood we are saved, and if you study all the blood offerings of the OT, you see all that Christ does for us in the NT. If you study all about what God instructed about being clean in thought, word, and deed in the OT, and study how the food laws symbolized this, you will see why we are freed in our diet, but what we are to do spiritually. God is very precise, it is our understanding that isn't.

 

[kayem77]

We could use this argument for many things. Not just instruments. We are not bound by the OT. Many things happened in the OT that isn't permitted in the church today. I am just wondering are we picking and choosing what we WANT to practice or are we going by scripture?
Theres quite a few people in this thread that have made comments that amaze me. They're quick to defend "no it isn't outright mentioned in scripture but its ok" while in other threads speaking against the eating of certain foods, obvservation of holidays, and certain other practices Christians may be involved with.

What are those things? Because the only things that aren't permitted now are the thing that Christ fulfilled, like RedTent mentioned. The dietary laws, the blood sacrifices, the whole sacrificial system, the new moons,etc it was all fulfilled in Christ and the NT talks about that. However, there is no single verse where it says Christ did away with musical instruments, and there is also no reason to believe that, since musical instruments are worship tools, which have nothing to do with sacrificial systems or other ''shadows'' of the New Covenant.

 

[Elizabeth619]

When you go to the Old Testament, especially if you study it with a scholar who can help you tie it in with the NT, you will see that God is very precise about how and what Christ fulfilled, and by studying the OT you can see just what it was and how that Christ fulfilled it. Christ became our High Priest, scripture tells us so. If we check all of OT for what the High Priest was responsible for, it gives a clear picture of just how Christ fulfills this role for us. It is through Christ's blood we are saved, and if you study all the blood offerings of the OT, you see all that Christ does for us in the NT. If you study all about what God instructed about being clean in thought, word, and deed in the OT, and study how the food laws symbolized this, you will see why we are freed in our diet, but what we are to do spiritually. God is very precise, it is our understanding that isn't.

Am I wrong or haven't you spoke for food restrictions? It may have been someone else, but I want to say that you and I got in a pretty deep conversation in the past about how eating meat that is now clean was only symbolism and not literal and we were still bound to the laws. If it wasn't you then my apologies.

 

[Shava]

Interesting Quotes on Instrumental Music in Worship

John Calvin
Musical instruments in celebrating the praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting of lamps, and the restoration of the other shadows of the law. The Papists, therefore, have foolishly borrowed this, as well as many other things from the Jew. Men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in that noise: but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostles is far more pleasing to Him. (Commentary on Psalms 33)

John Wesley
I have no opposition to the organ in our chapel provided it is neither seen nor heard.
(Adam Clark’s Commentary, Volume 4, page 868)


Adam Clark
I am an old man, and an old minister; and I here declare that I never knew them to be productive of any good in the worship of God; and have had reason to believe that they were productive of much evil. Music, as a science, I esteem and admire; but instruments of music in the house of God I abominate and abhor.
(Adam Clark’s Commentary, Volume 4, page 686)

Charles Spurgeon
I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the understanding also, I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. I would as soon pray to God with machinery as to sing to God with machinery.

 

[Elizabeth619]

What are those things? Because the only things that aren't permitted now are the thing that Christ fulfilled, like RedTent mentioned. The dietary laws, the blood sacrifices, the whole sacrificial system, the new moons,etc it was all fulfilled in Christ and the NT talks about that. However, there is no single verse where it says Christ did away with musical instruments, and there is also no reason to believe that, since musical instruments are worship tools, which have nothing to do with sacrificial systems or other ''shadows'' of the New Covenant.

I am being neutral here. I am not condemning anyone that uses instruments. I explained a while back in another thread that I worship without instruments by choice, and I dont force my views on others about it.
Levitical law says alot that people harp on and judge others if they dont hold to them.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Interesting Quotes on Instrumental Music in Worship

John Calvin
Musical instruments in celebrating the praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting of lamps, and the restoration of the other shadows of the law. The Papists, therefore, have foolishly borrowed this, as well as many other things from the Jew. Men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in that noise: but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostles is far more pleasing to Him. (Commentary on Psalms 33)

John Wesley
I have no opposition to the organ in our chapel provided it is neither seen nor heard.
(Adam Clark’s Commentary, Volume 4, page 868)


Adam Clark
I am an old man, and an old minister; and I here declare that I never knew them to be productive of any good in the worship of God; and have had reason to believe that they were productive of much evil. Music, as a science, I esteem and admire; but instruments of music in the house of God I abominate and abhor.
(Adam Clark’s Commentary, Volume 4, page 686)

Charles Spurgeon
I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the understanding also, I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. I would as soon pray to God with machinery as to sing to God with machinery.

I don't know why you continue to make multipple threads about this issue. While you have been beebopping around this site the Church of Christ has come under attack by your false theologies. You are treating the church as a denomination and that is not what we are.
To tell others why we worship the way we do is fine, but you are telling everyone who is not CoC how they are wrong.

Because of your actions you have convinced people that we are a cult, that we are of the devil, and that we are pure evil. Im insulted by the accusations, and Im insulted by your accusations. Stop it!

 

[kayem77]

I am being neutral here. I am not condemning anyone that uses instruments. I explained a while back in another thread that I worship without instruments by choice, and I dont force my views on others about it.
Levitical law says alot that people harp on and judge others if they dont hold to them.

It's alright. Just trying to understand why some believe this way.

 

[Elizabeth619]

It's alright. Just trying to understand why some believe this way.

I am pretty well done with the conversation. I have been to a couple other Church of Christ bashing threads and as a member of the CoC that actually understands the doctrine where we have NO authority to condemn but ENCOURAGE I am pretty hurt by others comments. It's best I just walk away.

 

[Nautilus]

hmmm so on page one.... Shava said

Revelation says instruments in heaven, doesn't have nothing to do with now, just like O.T. doesn't either on this.

Jesus said in Matthew 6:10

your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.

So if there are instruments in Heaven and God's will is to be done on earth I would assume that INCLUDES instruments. Though backwards legalistic ideologies probably disagree.

 

[Shava]

Yes it would, if we said that God said we must use instruments. It doesn't say this. It is the same way it does not support "you may not use instruments".

Why would God have to say we must not use instruments in order for us to see that he doesn't want us to use instruments, when he tells us, commands us by scripture to sing.

 

[parablepete]

Can an Instrument Speak? Can and Instrument Sing? Can an Instrument make melody? Can an Instrument Teach? Can an Instrument Admonish?
[SUP]



Col.3:16[/SUP]Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

EPH. 5:19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;
- New American Standard Version (1995)


For those who make the STRONG Arguement that its not in the bible, or that it doesn't say not to do it.

Can someone please show me where it says not RAPE someone? Where does it say NOT to Molest someone? Where does it say not to GAMBLE? How about do not committ MANSLAUGHTER?

Its not in the bible maybe we can do these things?

We get our ATHOURTY from Christ and his Word. Not David, Moses. We know that Paul and Silas sing without them and their Worship was execptiable in Acts 16:25 why add something we have doubt about.

Oh one more thing, if this is talking about Instruments then everyone one of needs to play something.

 

[Shava]

I don't know why you continue to make multipple threads about this issue. While you have been beebopping around this site the Church of Christ has come under attack by your false theologies. You are treating the church as a denomination and that is not what we are.
To tell others why we worship the way we do is fine, but you are telling everyone who is not CoC how they are wrong.

Because of your actions you have convinced people that we are a cult, that we are of the devil, and that we are pure evil. Im insulted by the accusations, and Im insulted by your accusations. Stop it!

They didn't need me to think that, they already thought that, and far as what I do, I do to learn myself why this deal with instruments is happening and I personally felt that I hadn't enough info on this and that's why I am asking more questions on the subject. What info I given is truth and if you don't know that then maybe you need to study some more. You say you are insulted by my accusations, I am deeply sadden by your lack of defense for your heavenly father in spreading THE TRUTH and that's exactly what I have been doing. I have no respect for someone like you who attempt to tell others what to say and for that reason I would appreciate not commenting to me in the future.

 

[Shava]

When someone is wrong in what they believe it's a Christians duty to show them why there wrong and help them find the truth, so they can know the truth. If as a Christian you don't help those who are worshipping the wrong way, you will have to answer for that.

 

[Shava]

The Scriptural Record
The following list includes every reference to the type of music which the early New Testament church used in worship to God. An examination of these Scriptures make plain the kind of music which God designed for His church.
1) And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the Mt. of Olives - Matt 26:30; Mark 14:26.
2) And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God - Acts 16:25.
3) For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name - Romans 15:9.
4) I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also - 1Cor 14:15.
5) Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord - Eph 5:19.
6) Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord - Col 3:16.
7) In the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee - Heb 2:12. 8) Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms - James 5:13.

 

[Shava]

Many who favor musical instruments in the worship service turn to the book of Revelation and cite Scriptures which speak of harps in heaven and conclude that whatever is suitable in heaven should be permitted in Christian worship. In a typical passage, Rev 5:8, And when he had taken the book, the four beasts andfour and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of the saints. In the first place, Revelation is a highly symbolic book which draws aside the curtain of the future and gives us a picture of spiritual things in heaven. In the second place, even if the things mentioned here are literal, the fact remains that it would be very unsound reasoning to conclude that mechanical instruments of music should be used here because harps are used in heaven. This verse from Revelation also mentions beasts and golden vials full of odours (incense). If we follow the principle that what is acceptable in heaven is acceptable in the church, not only must we have harps, but we must also have beasts and incense. There will be no marriage or giving in marriage in heaven (Matt 22:30); shall we abolish it here? There will be no baptism or Lord's Supper in heaven, but Christ commanded both to be practiced in the church.

 

[Servant_of_Christ]

but why instrument free though, I thought it said praise him on an instrument of ten strings? just wondering.

 

[Agricola]

Reading a few posts it seems the issue is over Jews. God enjoyed the music in Old testament from the Jews, of course God has not really changed, he obviously still approves of music.

The problems now arise with this ridiculous notion we must totally reject the Old Testament and the Jewish side of God, therefore these people throw everything out, including the baby with the bathwater. Result is no music allowed as it was what the Jews did and we are not Jews. Ridiculous.

 

[SeaBass]

If I do not have to do what the NT says when it comes to singing, then there is no reason I have to anything/everything else the NT speaks about. If I can ignore what the NT says about singing, then why can't I ignore what the NT says about anything/everything else?