Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[eternally-gratefull]

won't be electric instruments in our worship in heaven, can hardly believe drums will be, but maybe. harps are nice, but in my ears the harp of the spirit is nicer. like someone said earlier in thread, different strokes for different folks. i don't think the Almighty is going to deny worship, from instruments, and from the spirit, or condemn someone for it, remember the Almighty see's our heart.

so you have seen heaven and know this?

In heaven we will not need electricity. But God can amplify our music any way he desires..

it will not be just singing, I know this.. we will be singing praises to the Lord as David said in psalms..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Worship was the purpose of coming together, preaching/teaching is a form of worship. Christians can worship at other times, but it is this corporate worship which the worship I refer to when the disciples come together on the first day of the week. So the issue remains, where did God authorize instruments for worship, either the corporate worship on the first day of the week or any other time?

no you still do not get it..

God did not command us to come together for corporate worship just one day, They did it ALL THE TIME in the new testament. do you think they did like today and just got together one day a week. and were by themselves the rest of the time?

Dude you can have that worship. I did that for years and could not comprehend why i could not grow. I finally found Gods truth, and we get together as often as we can. and I am growing in Christ,

if you want to hang out with the family of God only on sunday, and do like your firend and hang out with secular people of the world the rest of the time, and play any music you wish.. you prove your a hypocrite, and will never grow in christ, and will remain in legalism, because it is all you have.

 

[SeaBass]

and what sins under the law pertains to singing with instruments did Christ took out?

what singing with instruments was against them?[/SIZE]

Christ took away ALL the OT making it inactive and ineffective.

Justification for using instruments would therefore have to be found in Christ's NT.

so what do "harps" means?

First, heaven is a spiriutal realm not a phyiscal one. So if you make it to heaven, you cannot take your physical possessions with you, not even your physical body, as Paul says a change must take place, 1 Cor 15, from putting off mortal to putting on immortality.

Secondly, harps are being used figuratively. Example in Rev 14:1,2, if one tries to make literal, physical harps out of the context, then consistency requires he also literalize that there is just 144,000 in heaven.

Rev 14:2 says ASV "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers harping with their harps"

John uses the word "as"...AS the voice of water, AS the voice of thunder..AS the voice of harps..John is using similes.

the voice was as water> it was powerful,
the voice was as thunder> it was loud,
the voice was as hapers harping> it was melodic, sweet sounding

regarding Lord supper:
they used wine, the reason was those who drink to much get drunk:
1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
1Co 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

and we know that Jesus breaks bread to remember him.

Bread and wine were definitely there... If you would like to add peanut, and add orange juice or grape Juice...its up to you. (is it a sin...No)

Singing is very definitely commanded there in the NT.

But your argument was that the NT does not forbid using instrument. So likewise my arguemnt is the NT does not forbid peanuts and orange juice....the exact same argument as yours.


God told Noah to use gopher wood to build the ark, yet nowhere did God specifically forbid Noah from using oak. So could Noah have built the ark out of oak and yet still done as instructed by God?

 

[KohenMatt]

Christ took away ALL the OT making it inactive and ineffective.....

God told Noah to use gopher wood to build the ark, yet nowhere did God specifically forbid Noah from using oak. So could Noah have built the ark out of oak and yet still done as instructed by God?

It doesn't matter what Noah did. Apparently, "Christ took away ALL the OT making it inactive and ineffective."

The Noadic Covenant to not destroy the earth is inactive. You can't use Noah as an example.

 

[SeaBass]

Does someone in your church lead the singing every week? There's no command in the NT for that position.
Does your church had a pastor who preaches every week? There's no command in the NT for that position.
Does your church meet in a building other than a house? There's no command in the NT for that.
Does your church have specific songs you sing where words are written down on paper or on a screen? There's no command for that in the NT.

Gotta be careful with the standards you set against instruments. That same standard can get many of your practices in trouble.

Hi,

There is a difference between an "aid" and an "addition".

Example, nowhere did God tell Noah to use tools. Yet using tools AIDED Noah in building the ark, it did not add to and change the instructions God gave Noah.

A song leader AIDS in singing. Things are to be done decently and in order, therefore a song leader gets everyone on the same page, singing certain verses, starting and stopping at the same time. So the leader is an AID in carrying out singing and does not ADD to and change what God said about singing.


Acts 20:7, God brings the disciples together on the first day of the week. This obviously requires a place to "come together". It is a matter of expediency, an aid if they come together in a building, or tent, or someone's home and therefore the meeting place does not add to or change God bringing disciples together on the first day of the week.


So when God gives a command, as to Noah in building an ark, then it is implied in that command Noah can use what He needs to (as tools) in carrying out that commandand, and using tools do not add to or change the command.





Question: In the great commisson, Mt 28:19,20, Jesus commanded His disciples to "go". Yet in this context, nowhere did Jesus authorize a certain mode of transportation/communication. So what mode of transportation/communication could the disciples use since none was specifically authorized?

 

[KohenMatt]

Hi,

There is a difference between an "aid" and an "addition".

Example, no where did God tell Noah to use tools. Yet using tools AIDED Noah inbuild the ark, it did not add to and change the instructions God gave Noah.

A song leader AIDS in singing. Things are to be done decently and in order, therefore a song leader gets everyone on the same page, singing certain verses, starting and stopping at the same time. So the leader is an AID in carrying out singing and does not ADD to and change what God said about singing.


Acts 20:7, God brings the disciples together on the first day of the week. This obviously requires a place to "come together". It is a matter of expediency, an aid if they come together in a building, or tent, or someone's home and thereore the meeting place does not add to or change God bring disciples together.


So when God gives a command, as to Noah in building an ark, then it is implied in the command Noah can use what He needs to (as tools) in carrying out that commandand using tools do not add to or change the command.



Question: In the great commisson, Mt 28:19,20, Jesus commanded His disciples to "go". Yet in this context, nowhere did Jesus authorize a certain mode of transportation/communication. So what mode of transportation/communication could the disciples use since none was specifically authorized?

So instruments are an "aid" in worship, yes?

 

[SeaBass]

So instruments are an "aid" in worship, yes?

No. God commanded singing for His NT church. Using instruments adds to and changes that command.


God told Noah to use gopher wood. If he used gopher wood AND oak wood would he have done as God said? Could he say using oak was an aid in building the ark?

 

[SeaBass]

It doesn't matter what Noah did. Apparently, "Christ took away ALL the OT making it inactive and ineffective."

The Noadic Covenant to not destroy the earth is inactive. You can't use Noah as an example.

Christ did not, had not taken away the OT at the time of Noah, so it did matter what Noah did.


So the question remains: God told Noah to use gopher wood to build the ark, yet nowhere did God specifically forbid Noah from using oak. So could Noah have built the ark out of oak and yet still done as instructed by God?

 

[Shava]

no you still do not get it..

God did not command us to come together for corporate worship just one day, They did it ALL THE TIME in the new testament. do you think they did like today and just got together one day a week. and were by themselves the rest of the time?

Dude you can have that worship. I did that for years and could not comprehend why i could not grow. I finally found Gods truth, and we get together as often as we can. and I am growing in Christ,

if you want to hang out with the family of God only on sunday, and do like your firend and hang out with secular people of the world the rest of the time, and play any music you wish.. you prove your a hypocrite, and will never grow in christ, and will remain in legalism, because it is all you have.

They may have hung out all of the time because of the close proximity of everybody to each other, but when it came to worship it was designated to be every Lord's day, being Sunday. People had lives to live and jobs to tend to so they worshipped one day a week.

 

[SeaBass]

no you still do not get it..

God did not command us to come together for corporate worship just one day, They did it ALL THE TIME in the new testament. do you think they did like today and just got together one day a week. and were by themselves the rest of the time?

Dude you can have that worship. I did that for years and could not comprehend why i could not grow. I finally found Gods truth, and we get together as often as we can. and I am growing in Christ,

if you want to hang out with the family of God only on sunday, and do like your firend and hang out with secular people of the world the rest of the time, and play any music you wish.. you prove your a hypocrite, and will never grow in christ, and will remain in legalism, because it is all you have.

There is nowhere inthe NT that God brought the disciples together to worship other than the first day of the week to take the Lords Supper, Acts 20:7, to give, 1 Cor 16:2 to also sing, pray and teach/preach.

Can disciples meet on Wednesday nite or a Thursday morning to worship? Yes, but not to take the Lord's Supper or give for those are only for the first day of the week meeting. On Wednesday nite or Thursday morning they can worship God in song, pray and teaching.


But the issue remains unanswered: where did God authorize the use of musical instruments in worship to Him if that worship takes place on Sunday, Wednesday nite or Thursday morning?

 

[KohenMatt]

Christ did not, had not taken away the OT at the time of Noah, so it did matter what Noah did.


So the question remains: God told Noah to use gopher wood to build the ark, yet nowhere did God specifically forbid Noah from using oak. So could Noah have built the ark out of oak and yet still done as instructed by God?

So the Noadic Covenant is taken away though. It's ineffective because "Christ took away ALL the OT making it inactive and ineffective."

Just want to be clear.

 

[watcher2013]

Christ took away ALL the OT making it inactive and ineffective.

Justification for using instruments would therefore have to be found in Christ's NT.

How can you be justified if you cannot find sin in using instrument under the Law????

First, heaven is a spiriutal realm not a phyiscal one. So if you make it to heaven, you cannot take your physical possessions with you, not even your physical body, as Paul says a change must take place, 1 Cor 15, from putting off mortal to putting on immortality.

Secondly, harps are being used figuratively. Example in Rev 14:1,2, if one tries to make literal, physical harps out of the context, then consistency requires he also literalize that there is just 144,000 in heaven.

Have you not heard of the great multitudes, the elders... and those who were slain for the word of God?

Rev 14:2 says ASV "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and the voice which I heard was as the voice of harpers harping with their harps"

John uses the word "as"...AS the voice of water, AS the voice of thunder..AS the voice of harps..John is using similes.

the voice was as water> it was powerful,
the voice was as thunder> it was loud,
the voice was as hapers harping> it was melodic, sweet sounding

harp = melodic, sweet sounding, and you got it from where?
by the way...there is also a trumpet sound....what does this mean again?

Singing is very definitely commanded there in the NT.

and there is no question about it...

But your argument was that the NT does not forbid using instrument. So likewise my arguemnt is the NT does not forbid peanuts and orange juice....the exact same argument as yours.

I did not rejected your arguments..in fact I did said its up to you to add peanut and juices and it is not a sin.

God told Noah to use gopher wood to build the ark, yet nowhere did God specifically forbid Noah from using oak. So could Noah have built the ark out of oak and yet still done as instructed by God?

are you sure noah did not used any oak?
Did God instructed noah to use hammer?

 

[KohenMatt]

But your argument was that the NT does not forbid using instrument. So likewise my arguemnt is the NT does not forbid peanuts and orange juice....the exact same argument as yours.


God told Noah to use gopher wood to build the ark, yet nowhere did God specifically forbid Noah from using oak. So could Noah have built the ark out of oak and yet still done as instructed by God?

What verse was it again where God specifically forbid the use of instruments?

 

[SeaBass]

What verse was it again where God specifically forbid the use of instruments?

Next to the one where He specifically forbid the use peanuts and orange juice for the Lord's Supper.

Again, the argument from silence does not work and not valid.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Colossians 3;16 and Ephesians 5;19 are the commands for singing only. We that are serious comply to the commands God puts to us to obey. There are no commands for instruments to be used in the N.T. so why would I do anything other than sing? Do you know of other authorization for instruments to be used in N.T. time?

there is no command in the new testament to preach in english either...

i hope your church speaks hebrew and greek...

 

[SeaBass]

So the Noadic Covenant is taken away though. It's ineffective because "Christ took away ALL the OT making it inactive and ineffective."

Just want to be clear.

CHrist coming to earth and taking the OT laws making them inactive has nothing to do with Noah doing as God said. God instructing Noah happened LONG before Christ came to earth.

So the issue being avoided is could Noah have built the ark out of oak and still do as God said even though God did not specifcally fobid oak?

 

[Vernon]

So let me get this straight, all guitar and cello players are going to hell or is it just the brass section?

 

[jennymae]

So let me get this straight, all guitar and cello players are going to hell or is it just the brass section?

I wonder where the fiddle players are going.

 

[KohenMatt]

So, What verse was it again where God specifically forbid the use of instruments?

 

[KohenMatt]

So let me get this straight, all guitar and cello players are going to hell or is it just the brass section?

Actually, it's the clarinet and oboe players. They're the real offenders.