Dangers of Manism

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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#61
Every feminist has an agenda. In this case it's female supremacy to the point of maligning. This thread should rightfully be titled the BENEFITS of the men's rights movement (in the West's present feminist dominated political environment).

The liberal feminist states:

"Manism aims to prove that men are somewhat superior to women and seeks to oppress women by throwing claims like how it was better in the past, when women had no votes and no education. They resent a woman who works, and try to put down all women who do as those who do not care for their families. Some of them, come across as educated and claim fake titles as a means of explaining away feminism to women."

Wow. What an ignorant, disingenuous, mischaracterization of the men's rights movement. But then, we've certainly seen that behavioral trait from liberal feminists before so this should come as no surprise.

I believe Rational Wikipedia posits a much better definition:

"The men's rights movement (also known as men's rights activism (MRA), masculism or 'The Men's Human Rights Movement') is a movement that believes that social, legal and economic discrimination against men is present in society to the extent that fighting it deserves an organized effort mirroring feminism. Its membership is primarily male , though some women also identify with the movement and are sometimes known as 'fMRAs.'"

Men's organizations such as 'A Voice for Men' typically describe their movement in the following manner:

"The Men’s Rights Movement (MRM) is a grass roots, unfunded and loosely associated collection of human rights advocates focused on opposing the marginalization and vilification of men and boys in Western society. The MRM is a non-violent, non-political movement comprised of men and women who believe, based on a growing body of evidence that the human rights of males are being systematically removed by activists, lobbyists, politicians and academicians who cling to a misguided and wrongheaded belief that masculinity is fundamentally violent or harmful. This persistent myth is often referred to as cultural misandry."

A very typical mission statement for men's rights organizations can be found at 'A Voice for Men':

"The Men’s Human Rights Movement (MHRM) is a complicated and often misunderstood social phenomenon. We address a wide variety of issues that affect men and boys — and ultimately women, as well as the culture as a whole.

Additionally, there is a great deal of disinformation about this movement on the internet and in the mainstream media.

With that in mind, we suggest some or all of the following reading materials, as a simple mission statement is not sufficient to fully explain our purpose and objectives."

Indeed there is "a great deal of disinformation about this movement on the internet and in the mainstream media" and liberal feminists like Rachel are contributing to it.

In reality, these groups state that they align with 'The Equal Rights Amendment', written in 1923, to make freedom from discrimination based on sex a matter of Constitutional Law in the United States. Its wording is as clear as it is brief:

•Section 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex;

•Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article;

•Section 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification.

Obviously, liberal feminists like Rachel are disingenuously and deliberately maligning a movement that seeks to correct a blatant feminist imbalance in Western societies in which feminists agitate for a supremacy that is hurting both men and boys.
 
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AmberGardner

Guest
#62
It says BOTH men and women. Why are you only expressing a woman's rule?​



You're right! Because it's women's rule that is being completely denied.
 
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AmberGardner

Guest
#63
I think you are falling victim to God's declaration in Genesis 3:16 Then he said to the woman, "I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy, and in pain you will give birth. And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you."
I'm single and have no intentions of getting married. And that is a horrible translation.
 
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AmberGardner

Guest
#64
I think you are falling victim to God's declaration in Genesis 3:16 Then he said to the woman, "I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy, and in pain you will give birth. And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you."
That verse is when God judged Adam, Eve, and satan in the garden. God's judgment upon Eve was not that she was going to be a wreched person with no regard to God's order.

Genesis 3:17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life.
Genesis 3:16 He told the woman, "I'll greatly increase the pain of your labor during childbirth. It will be painful for you to bear children, "since your trust is turning toward your husband, and he will dominate you."
Genesis 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
God had MERCY on Eve, but not on satan, and Enmity was put between satan and the woman.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
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#65
You're right! Because it's women's rule that is being completely denied.
We also need to consider the context of the scripture you used. Mankind ruling over Gods creation says nothing about the roles between husband and wife. It pretty much states HUMANS are above the rest of Gods creation(cats, dogs, bugs....)
 
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AmberGardner

Guest
#67
:)............................

Genesis 1:27 So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
28 Then God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and govern it. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground."
- NLT
 

Elizabeth619

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2011
6,397
109
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#68
and where does that discuss the male and female role between each other?
 
Feb 8, 2014
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#69
I've been lurking on this post for a while now, and I gotta say, I'm feeling despair. Deep despair.

Let's start with the OP. You're painting with an awfully fat brush here. I mean, really? You have the opportunity to bring light into the world with your posts, and you write about a few dudes you likely don't even know who want to have their women pregnant and barefoot? Somehow these few men make a statement that you hold against all the men in the world that want to be treated equally? In your subsequent arguments, I'm not even sure you've made your point except to point out that primarily Muslim countries are the ones that behave this way. Ok. Dismissing in this conversation a religion that has nothing to do with "Christian Chat" can you tell me any predominantly Christian country that is passing policies/laws to subjugate women? I'll be interested in hearing the answer to that one as I haven't studied this subject matter, but might find it of interest.

I am married. I am a fan of men. I have five brothers, had 7 close uncles, and am very close to my father. Most of these are "manly men." Iowa farmboy types. They hunt and fish and spit on the ground and use coarse language. They talk about women in flattering and unflattering ways, and discuss their marriages openly. I grew up and still live among these men. At church and at school, in my friendships and life I have always been drawn to men instead of women because of their blunt honesty and their lack of ulterior thinking, which I find so prevalent in my own sex. Frankly, every knife I've had stuck in my back was put there by a woman who called herself my friend. In 42 years of living, and all the men I've ever been close to, I've only ever met one man who seemed intent to subjugate women, and he was an abusive lunatic who tried to use the bible as a club. Your broad brush is painting all men the same color as he is; that's a spirit of discrimination and untruth.


From what I read about the "manosphere" (silly name) these men mostly want the freedom to act like men and not be persecuted for that. Men are being judged. Their very nature is being attacked. The very thing that makes them special and unique is being bled out of them by women who say they only want "equal" treatment. This post and the subsequent female agreement with you demonstrate it perfectly. I see this happening in the world, and women like the OP and the other (apparently unmarried?) women on here advocating this sort of discrimination are feeding it. Man, as a sex has become the butt of every television joke and part of society. They are painted to be either a spineless weakling, a flamboyant homosexual, or an ugly misogynist. I, for one, refuse to participate, and will continue judging men each on their own character.

Instead of struggling against this premise of men being proud to be manly, you might try understanding it. You might try walking a mile in someone else's shoes. You might try a give and take relationship where you actually obey the Bible, instead of resenting it's teachings and finding reasons to twist them to your thinking. The bottom line is that either you believe the word or you don't. You can struggle against it's teachings if you want, but at the end of the day, it's either true or not. YOU get to decide.
 

Rachel20

Senior Member
May 7, 2013
1,639
106
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#70
Actually Mrs Rose,

If you read the OP carefully, it absolutely states that gender wars are ungodly. I think men and women should respect each other. In fact to anyone else who's reading this thread, that was the whole point of creation of this.

Call it a social experiment if you will, but by bringing out the other side of these debates about feminism, to other such movements was to judge how people react to it.

I should thank you MrsRoseTreasure for highlighting this very fact.

You speak about walking a mile in someone else's shoes... Well THANK YOU for doing that, so now you can understand how some women have felt.

They feel the exact same way you do, when you feel the need to protect all these poor helpless men, who are supposed to conform to social images, have no freedom and are so very oppressed.

Oh these poor men who use coarse language and spit on the ground, but they don't have any ulterior thinking like all these horrible women who want to see little girls educated.

(Let's paint all women with such fat brushstrokes too.)

AND FYI, none of the countries mentioned in the next posts, had anything to do with being Muslim. Muslims are a minority in India. Since you've are an expert and have studied these matters, you surely would know all that.


But anyway, thanks again for validating the point of this thread. Now the manists can sympathize with their feminist counterparts.
 

Rachel20

Senior Member
May 7, 2013
1,639
106
63
#71
Thanks for the thread Rachel.

I have actually experienced these ineffectual men on reddit.
I've had death threats and threats of violence from them. And I'm a fellow male. lol

They have an agenda to hurt women in general, although they won't say it.
David, these men and some women are those kinds that just don't want to see others prosper. They're probably jealous and insecure because they can't go against what God has done - that is give talents and gifts to EVERYONE.

Those people who utilize it succeed. Those who don't , go on internet forums, whining and complaining. Worse, some are frauds who claim high education but resort to second class plagiarizing.


Why are you for every Evil political movement there is?

David, are you surprised? I am not really.

These people have their own agendas and frankly, I am really sick of it.

If you wish, I can pass you the barf bag, I am holding.

 

Rachel20

Senior Member
May 7, 2013
1,639
106
63
#72
Well, that's it folks.

I think it's interesting to note how most of the posters, instead of talking about man-ism, the dangers of online bullying and harrassment of women, go back to feminism. (There's another thread on this forum, go and post in that or if you wish make your own thread about the benefits of manism. )

Also there are people throwing accusations around about personal convictions, so I think I'll clarify this about myself.

I follow the Bible very seriously, and if and when I meet a man who I wish to marry, I pray he will be a man of God who I will deeply respect and submit to.

I know he will respect me as well, because he will know that if he doesn't respect me, he doesn't deserve me.

He will also know that my submission to him is an act of love, in honour and reverance to Christ.

But as for everything else - I am glad God made me a woman in the country that I am in. It's a wonderful opportunity for me as a Christian woman to do the best I can in the field that I am in, to glorify his name amongst those who don't believe.


Actions speak much louder than words.

There's nothing to stop any woman from working hard and using the gifts and talents that God has given her to bring God glory.

And here's to encourage any man or woman -


Romans 8:31-39

31 What can we say about all this? If God is on our side, can anyone be against us? 32 God did not keep back his own Son, but he gave him for us. If God did this, won’t he freely give us everything else? 33 If God says his chosen ones are acceptable to him, can anyone bring charges against them? 34 Or can anyone condemn them? No indeed! Christ died and was raised to life, and now he is at God’s right side,[a] speaking to him for us. 35 Can anything separate us from the love of Christ? Can trouble, suffering, and hard times, or hunger and nakedness, or danger and death? 36 It is exactly as the Scriptures say,
“For you we face death
all day long.
We are like sheep
on their way
to be butchered.”

37 In everything we have won more than a victory because of Christ who loves us. 38 I am sure that nothing can separate us from God’s love—not life or death, not angels or spirits, not the present or the future, 39 and not powers above or powers below. Nothing in all creation can separate us from God’s love for us in Christ Jesus our Lord!


You are loved by God. He died for you and so don't let anyone in this world , either a man or a woman, ever take away your self worth.

You, dear woman/man of God are his child.

God bless all you loving, justice seeking people.

I have work to do, things to achieve and I need to prove with actions - so I shall be taking leave from this discussion.
Peace.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#73
The modern Men’s Rights movement began in the same soil that second-wave feminism did. But due to feminism's gradual transformation into a female supremacy movement that denigrates men and seeks systematic dominance over men and boys in every sphere of society, the Men’s Rights movement has emerged as a reactionary movement seeking to correct the imbalance brought by over reaching feminists.

Naturally, as a reactionary movement, the Men's Rights movement is concerned with balancing the inequities that modern feminism has wrought and ending sex discrimination against men.

The Men's Right movement is as distributed and divided as the feminist movement is and it's disingenuous to say feminism isn't but the Men's Rights movement is because it's observable and well documented that they both are.

The Men's Rights movement numerical growth is recent and late in the game but it is accelerating and maturing. The Genie is out of the bottle and he's not going back in.

Us Christians "are set apart" spiritually speaking from the world though we live and operate in it as salt and light. As a result, we should be approaching both movements from a different perspective than the secular atheist simply because of the revelation we have from God.

God never minimizes the unique significance to our individual personhood of our maleness our femaleness even when society and we, ourselves, do.

Christians are in a unique position to influence both movements with God's revelation toward a healthy understanding and hopefully a better society.

More later. Peace.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
#74
You're right! Because it's women's rule that is being completely denied.
I'm 100% with you there, women are to have as much dominion over the Earth as men are. Even though the bible states that the wife should submit to her husband, it never says the husband has dominion over his wife. I've always been of the opinion that submission is a choice and something that the woman is inspired and chooses to do, not something she HAS to do.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,164
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#75
I don't ever remember any man arguing that women do not have dominion over the fish, the birds of the air and the beast of the field. The problem is those who want to have dominion over men.
 
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AmberGardner

Guest
#76
I don't ever remember any man arguing that women do not have dominion over the fish, the birds of the air and the beast of the field. The problem is those who want to have dominion over men.​




Fortunately, Scripture also says that they are to be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth with people and govern it also. So not just have dominion over animals, but God ordained government in this verse as well, and He included women in the rulership.

Genesis 1:27 So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created THEM.
28 Then God blessed THEM and said, "Be fruitful and multiply. Fill the earth and GOVERN IT. Reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground."
 
Feb 8, 2014
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#77
You are judging me, and putting words in my mouth. Not a good habit and not conducive to group discussion.

Regarding my shoes, you really have no idea what you're talking about in terms of another person's experience, and your assumption of mine is not only rude, but small minded and hypocritical. I spoke directly from MY OWN experience, and gave anecdotal information from MY OWN life in terms of women's behaviors and MY OPINIONS. Your OPINION of my experience with other women and my own life experience is IRRELEVANT to the truth.

Yes, you say how ungodly the war is, and then you say how horrible these men are for wanting equality within that "ungodly" war. You contradict yourself in the same post, and you've done it throughout this thread.

The discussion about Muslim countries has come up several times in this thread, and specifically by you. What are you hiding? Why didn't you answer my question? What Christian nations are passing laws/policies to specifically oppress women?

I apologize for not being semantic enough for you. Let me absolutely correct in my speaking. The atrocities being done in India against women are being committed by a predominantly Muslim portion of the population, as is happening in other countries where Muslim oppression has become the norm against women. I wasn't trying to be an expert on anything. I thought I was having a conversation with fellow believers, in fact, so exact semantics wasn't required. My mistake.

What exactly have I proven for you? It seems like I have stated my own personal opinion. That doesn't make you right or wrong, neither does it make me right or wrong, but simply is what it is. Have I proven that my opinion differs from yours? Yes.

What you have proven is that you are insulting to those who disagree with you. In fact, what you have proven is the quality of your character. Shalom.

Actually Mrs Rose,

If you read the OP carefully, it absolutely states that gender wars are ungodly. I think men and women should respect each other. In fact to anyone else who's reading this thread, that was the whole point of creation of this.

Call it a social experiment if you will, but by bringing out the other side of these debates about feminism, to other such movements was to judge how people react to it.

I should thank you MrsRoseTreasure for highlighting this very fact.

You speak about walking a mile in someone else's shoes... Well THANK YOU for doing that, so now you can understand how some women have felt.

They feel the exact same way you do, when you feel the need to protect all these poor helpless men, who are supposed to conform to social images, have no freedom and are so very oppressed.

Oh these poor men who use coarse language and spit on the ground, but they don't have any ulterior thinking like all these horrible women who want to see little girls educated.

(Let's paint all women with such fat brushstrokes too.)

AND FYI, none of the countries mentioned in the next posts, had anything to do with being Muslim. Muslims are a minority in India. Since you've are an expert and have studied these matters, you surely would know all that.


But anyway, thanks again for validating the point of this thread. Now the manists can sympathize with their feminist counterparts.
 
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AmberGardner

Guest
#78
God is a heterosexual couple, meaning part of Him, is Her, and they rule. Mankind, Family, Marriage, is in the image of GOD.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
 
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Saint_Cecilia

Guest
#79
Woman was taken from man . . .
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; [SUP]22 [/SUP]And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

- Genesis 2:21-23
 
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AmberGardner

Guest
#80
What's your point? The Holy Spirit had to come from somewhere seeing as God the Father is the Most High. The Holy Spirit has always existed within Him.
 
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