Dangers of Manism

[presidente]

Presidente,

When you ask me to bring up examples from the manosphere, about hatred towards women with statements like no votes or no education, I will remind you of cases of online internet bullying against women like Kathy Sierra and Anita Sarkeesian. These statements were buzzing around the internet.

I'm not saying the manosphere is a wonderful place. There are a lot of 'dark' sites in the manosphere. The label applies to all kinds of sites that aren't that related to each other. Some of them are devoted to manipulating women into fornication. Other sites are about men's rights in divorce. Then there are Christians wanting to promote Biblical values in relation to marriage. I can think of one, but the comments on his site can be far from Christian. Some comments are from divorced men who seem bitter warning other men not to marry. There may be some young men who've caught on to this philosophy. So there are sites telling men to seduce women, and other sites saying not to marry. In a society full of promiscuous women. But some of the extreme views of the manosphere are the reaction to the damage caused by feminism and other liberal ideologies of recent decades.

I haven't read all that much of the 'dark' side of the manosphere. When I learned about it, I checked out a few sites to know what it was about.

But I can't remember anyone writing an article about how bad it was that women did not get the vote. Since you gave that as a specific example of manism, I wanted to know the source you were referring to.

They've got rape threats too.

Of course, that is a terrible thing. There are plenty of bad men out there.

It does happen, and there are scores of sites on the internet and blogs, and you'll just have to wade in the comments. There are too many such instances and I do not have the time to bring each one to your notice. There may be many more women subjected to online harrassment.

If you mean harassment of a sexual nature, there probably are more women harassed online. My wife often gets flirty or friendly messages from men on facebook. I rarely get them from women. Of course, she may just be a lot better looking than me. But men tend to be more aggressive about such things.

The manism term is for this -to bring up the hatred and resentment that many men feel against women in all forms of life. The manosphere is one aspect of it.

I mentioned this earlier. Why is it that a man who respects women is a 'feminist' in your terminology, as if 'feminism' is good, but 'manism' is bad. If you think feminism is good, then you should think manism is good, too. Of course, if Feminism is bad, and it is anti-male, then it makes sense that a Feminist would be against men.

Mansplaining too is really hurtful to women. It is condescension to women. It wounds.

'Mansplaining' sounds kind of like a sexist term, naming a condescending way of explaining things after men.

What if someone came up with a term 'womansplaining'-- which means talking for a really long time about a bunch of emotional stuff that doesn't really mean anything. Doesn't that sound sort of sexist?
It must not be that way and vice versa. Women shouldn't be doing this either. More so as Christians.

We ought to love one another. We ought to respect each other as human beings, and not for the way we look, or our positions in society. God made us all.

I agree. The way I use the term 'Feminism' is to refer to a philosophy that posits that the woes of womankind derive from an evil patriarchy. I don't believe patriarchy is inherently evil, since God is the Father and He gave many patriarchical laws in scripture.

 

[MarkMulder]

Dangers of Manism


I use the term Manism as an umbrella term for all the men's rights movements, misogynists etc that have taken up huge amount of space on the internet. The so-called Manosphere.

That's kinda racist, as if all feminists hate guys too...


oh wait... they do...

 

[Donkeyfish07]

Thanks for explaining that, but this thread wasn't just about the "manosphere" but the attitude of many men in general.

Hence the term man-ism.

Defining manism like you did probably wasn't a good idea if that's what you were getting at

"I use the term Manism as an umbrella term for all the men's rights movements, misogynists etc that have taken up huge amount of space on the internet. The so-called Manosphere."

Very confusing......then you continue to elaborate

"
Manism aims to prove that men are somewhat superior to women and seeks to oppress women by throwing claims like how it was better in the past, when women had no votes and no education.
They resent a woman who works, and try to put down all women who do as those who do not care for their families."

When that really has no relation to the attitude of the manosphere/MRA's (Even though many of them are misogynists, none of those things are any of their goals). It would be like me creating a term and saying "So called womanism, women's rights activists, misandrists, etc....that take up so much space on the internet. The so called feminism".

Then going on to define those groups like this

"They believe women are somewhat superior to men. They seek to oppress men by making it so men can not vote or have a right to an education. They resent a man that has a high paying job and puts down all men as if they do not care for their families".

Then just chalk it all up to the attitude of many women in general. See how accurately that reflects the attitude/beliefs/and sayings of the womens rights activists?

 

[AmberGardner]

You linked to a protest against pedophilia in relation to an Iraqi law. That would be oppression of little girls, not women. It doesn't make sense to me, why they would even want to legalize marriage for women who are not physically adults. I don't think 18 is the magic number necessarily. In my wife's country, adulthood is at age 17.

Most pedophiles are men. It's a man thing.

Pedophile and Child Molester Statistics - Yello Dyno

Nearly all the offenders in sexual assaults reported to law enforcement were male (96%).
- Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement, 7/00, NCJ 182990, U.S. Department of Justice

This law in Iraq is the removal of the right for women to protect their children. It is a removal of the authority and the rights of women. And it isn't just about legalizing the marriage of tiny girls, but the legalization of sleeping with tiny boys because that's what they do in Islam. Women are for baby making, little boys are for "love". In Rome the highest form of love was considered between men and little boys. Women had no rights, not even citizenship.

We have legalized homosexual marriage in America, which is mostly a MAN THING. In Sodom and Gomorrah we see men trying to rape men.

Genesis 19:4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."

.

Judges 19:22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, "Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him."

Lesbianism is a newer thing.

Romans 1:26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.

Homosexual marriage is about men far more than it is about women and is linked to pedophilia. It is the removal of woman from the family. The removal of the mama bear.

In Utah they have legalized bigamy and polygamy is in court.

'Sister Wives' case: Judge strikes down part of Utah polygamy law - CNN.com

The ruling late Friday by U.S. District Court Judge Clark Waddoups threw out the law's section prohibiting "cohabitation," saying it violates constitutional guarantees of due process and religious freedom.

All of this is ANTI-FEMALE.

2 Thessalonians 2:18 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

Isaiah 1:17 Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.

 

[Angela53510]

In general, no. But I wouldn't call it 'oppression' for a society to have sharper gender distinctions in work roles than the United States has. But I do think the US has gone way too far with doing away with gender distinctions. I think it is a good idea to keep women out of combat and definitely do not want to see women drafted. I'm a bit concerned the country could some day draft women based on the current philosophy as it applies to gender. I think employers should have more freedom in regard to who they hire, too, without interference from the government, mainly because of some of the 'gay rights' stuff going on. Public sentiment is a powerful enough force for those sorts of issues, IMO.

i dont believe in the draft for men or women. It is a sign of a war that should never be fought, Vietnam being a prime example. If the cause is right, men and women will volunteer, as they did in WWI and WWII.

Your comments on women not being in combat shows a paternalistic and overprotective attitude. From the WACs and WAVEs who fought in WWII, to today, women in the military have proven themselves to be every bit as competent as men. In Canada, the Armed Forces appointed a woman as a battleship commander 4 years ago, and she has excellent reports in that position.

On a personal level, my son joined the army reserves with a female friend back in the 90's. My son eventually dropped out, because of the challenge of engineering in University. But Mimi switched to the regular forces and is a career officer. When my son was doing artillery training, there were women commanders and teachers. Really, the only thing I can see wrong with a woman having a military career, is the amount of rapes of women that happen in the military! The lack of respect for women who choose to willingly defend their country, by THEIR OWN COUNTRYMEN is appalling!

As for some of the other posts, I am not, and have never been anti-men! I have been married now for 33 years, and while my husband did not understand at first why God called me to Seminary, he was graceful enough not to interfere with my schooling. When I became a chaplain, he really saw the calling, and how great the need was for spiritual care in long term care facilities. My feminism comes out of a strong sense of justice and a desire to stand against injustice in all forms, including against stereotyping men!

The problem with manism, whether secular or Christian, is that it does not acknowledge the talents, gifts and callings of women in our world. It's goal is to leave women as helpless, subservient dummies. Now that does not mean that a career as a mother and wife is not valid calling for a woman, but children do grow up, husbands can die, leaving a woman with few or no options.

When my children were small, I stayed home. When they reached school age, I resumed my teaching career, but still was home the same hours as my children, because I did prep and marking when they were asleep. I also worked as a specialist, so I didn't have to deal with the parents or paper work as much as a regular room teacher.

In an atmosphere of manism, I doubt I would have been able to do that! Instead, I was able to supplement our family income at a time when we needed it, and still care for my family, and nurture my children into responsible adults.

That is the good report about how feminism has helped me accomplish God's will for my life!

 

[AmberGardner]

Professional women should become integrated in the workplace, right?

They shouldn't be banned from it. Not every woman has men in her life. Not every woman has children.

Psalm 82:3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.

​

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1 Corinthians 7:8 Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.

 

[faroukfarouk]

They shouldn't be banned from it. Not every woman has men in her life. Not every woman has children.

I think it speaks volumes to have men and women integrated in the workplace. It's sensible and right to use everyone's talents. Besides, the need to earn is crucial.

Getty Images/Thinkstock - People waiting for job interview

 

[faroukfarouk]

I do think the picture, above, is very wholesome and instructive, too.

Blessings.

 

[presidente]

And it isn't just about legalizing the marriage of tiny girls, but the legalization of sleeping with tiny boys because that's what they do in Islam. Women are for baby making, little boys are for "love". In Rome the highest form of love was considered between men and little boys. Women had no rights, not even citizenship.

I did not read about that in the article. I've heard or read such comments about Arabs or Muslims. I disagree with a lot about Islam, but as far as I know, it is officially against homosexuality. I suspect you've been reading some 'prejudiced sources.'

We have legalized homosexual marriage in America, which is mostly a MAN THING. In Sodom and Gomorrah we see men trying to rape men.

A man thing? What is your point here? Is it to be anti-man, anti-male?

Lesbianism is a newer thing.

In the first century, 'for even their women did change their natural use to that which is against nature.'

I haven't read the stats. I wouldn't be surprised if being lesbians is much less common, but there does seem to be some sort of correlation between being a feminist and being a lesbian. You'd probably find a higher percentage of lesbians among feminists than among nonfeminists in the US, and more lesbians that are devout feminists than the rest of the population.

In Utah they have legalized bigamy and polygamy is in court.

'Sister Wives' case: Judge strikes down part of Utah polygamy law - CNN.com

All of this is ANTI-FEMALE.

The judge's ruling would probably allow a woman to shack up with multiple men. Boys and girls suffer in these Mormon offshoot households, not just the girls.

 

[biscuit]

Unbelievable !! Here we are in the 21st century, entering the latter days, last days and endtime, and we have a few so-called Christian women pulling a Power Play, mocking God. Instead of repenting and loving another, some women posters are stirring up the pot and spewing false doctrines and evil. Thank God that Jesus is returning home and will fix this mess, and I am sure He will take notice of those who worship feminism first before Him. As I stated on a different thread there are about 6 hardcore feminists who have declared war on God's institution of marriage, and man's right to rule over his household.

 

[presidente]

This thread does seem like a battle of the sexes. A few women who don't have feminist tendencies have posted, but the ones who post a lot tend to be feminists or have certain feminist beliefs. The women who hold to a more traditional belief (like what most Christians held to on the topic for about 1900 years) posted briefly. There are plenty of Christian women who believe that wives should submit to their husbands who wouldn't call various patriarchal law given by God unjust. But they seem to let the men debate a lot of the points on threads like this.

Just to reiterate, the problems I see with feminism are:

1. It promotes rebellion against the God-ordained order of the family where the man functions in the role as head of the wife, and the wife submits to her husband.

Sometimes promoting rebellion takes the form of arguing what the scriptures or the Greek words 'really' mean.

2. it leads to the conclusion that God gave unjust laws in scripture.

 

[faroukfarouk]

This thread does seem like a battle of the sexes. A few women who don't have feminist tendencies have posted, but the ones who post a lot tend to be feminists or have certain feminist beliefs. The women who hold to a more traditional belief (like what most Christians held to on the topic for about 1900 years) posted briefly. There are plenty of Christian women who believe that wives should submit to their husbands who wouldn't call various patriarchal law given by God unjust. But they seem to let the men debate a lot of the points on threads like this.

Just to reiterate, the problems I see with feminism are:

1. It promotes rebellion against the God-ordained order of the family where the man functions in the role as head of the wife, and the wife submits to her husband.

Sometimes promoting rebellion takes the form of arguing what the scriptures or the Greek words 'really' mean.

2. it leads to the conclusion that God gave unjust laws in scripture.

So you're sure you don't think 20 babies for one woman to bear is a good idea after all (from what I eventually gathered you were saying earlier)?

Blessings.

 

[sc81]

this seems like a thread purely to create antagonism because of the feminism thread.

look it's really simple if you want to be a christian female feminist who thinks biblical submission to her husband is degrading and men are oppressors etc. etc. Then simply don't marry, you can live your life according to your desires or even devote more time to God, you will never have to live under the oppressive control of a husband. Just like not every woman is the mothering type and probably shouldn't have children, neither is every woman the wife type and should remain single

 

[presidente]

So you're sure you don't think 20 babies for one woman to bear is a good idea after all (from what I eventually gathered you were saying earlier)?

Blessings.

I never said a woman had to have 20 babies. My own personal philosophy is that 'multiply' in the Genesis blessing means that two people should have three or more kids. Two is replacing. Say a widower or widow with a couple of kids remarried a virgin. Two more kids would be multiplying for the new partner who hadn't had kids before.

I see aspects of patriarchy in the Bible, especially since God is the Father, but I don't necessarily adhere to all the beliefs of any particular 'patriarchy' movement.

 

[faroukfarouk]

I never said a woman had to have 20 babies. My own personal philosophy is that 'multiply' in the Genesis blessing means that two people should have three or more kids. Two is replacing. Say a widower or widow with a couple of kids remarried a virgin. Two more kids would be multiplying for the new partner who hadn't had kids before.

I see aspects of patriarchy in the Bible, especially since God is the Father, but I don't necessarily adhere to all the beliefs of any particular 'patriarchy' movement.

Don't you think that the 'multiply' thing is more Jewish and Old Testament in character?

 

[presidente]

Don't you think that the 'multiply' thing is more Jewish and Old Testament in character?

Was Adam Jewish?

 

[Angela53510]

This thread does seem like a battle of the sexes. A few women who don't have feminist tendencies have posted, but the ones who post a lot tend to be feminists or have certain feminist beliefs. The women who hold to a more traditional belief (like what most Christians held to on the topic for about 1900 years) posted briefly. There are plenty of Christian women who believe that wives should submit to their husbands who wouldn't call various patriarchal law given by God unjust. But they seem to let the men debate a lot of the points on threads like this.

Just to reiterate, the problems I see with feminism are:

1. It promotes rebellion against the God-ordained order of the family where the man functions in the role as head of the wife, and the wife submits to her husband.

Sometimes promoting rebellion takes the form of arguing what the scriptures or the Greek words 'really' mean.

2. it leads to the conclusion that God gave unjust laws in scripture.

I find it so interesting all this woman bashing. Now, if you had ever posted more than one verse of the Bible, defended it in the Greek, I might find this all to be of interest. Yet you have yet to answer my post in the Greek about the origins of the roles for men and women after the fall, as a consequence of sin. You have no answers to the Greek in 1 Tim 2:12, to say nothing of understanding cultural differences between Bible times, and today. While God's word is forever, there are passages that God was addressing in both Corinth and Ephesus in particular, and those statements were specific to those churches.

I have discussed repeatedly these issues, and not one of the men in either this thread or the feminism thread have answered me. For that matter, when I was discussing this in the BDF last summer, when it was a hot topic, I got no answers but the literal English, being the truth of God's Word, instead of reflecting the translation biases of the Catholic Church, back to the Latin Vulgate mistranslations to enforce the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

It is obvious that most of the men in this thread and the other one, throw out pat answers and make dogmatic statements without ever ONCE backing them up with exegetical knowledge or any understanding of hermeneutics.

I have discussed these issues with fellow Seminarians, and got the same blank answers. One man, a Reformed Baptist pastor did a paper on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, and I critiqued him with a 10 page response paper using the original languages. Even he had no answers for me from the Word of God. He eventually dropped out of Greek because he could not handle it, and stayed out of Seminary for 3 years, basically till I graduated. Now I do not believe I caused him to drop out, but not being able to learn Greek, in Seminary, told me he was basing his manism convictions on handed down traditions and not on the Bible.

When any of you men can properly exegete the Greek in these matters, then let me know. I would love to discuss the issue in a scholarly manner, not with plagiarized texts, and with reference to the actual texts and a real knowledge of the Bible, not just the patriarchy.

I am a proud feminist who loves and serves God with all my heart. On Judgment Day, I think God will be giving some people a real talking to for their refusal to look at the facts of the Bible, and understand God's purposes and mission of both Jesus Christ and for us today in our society. And that is to spread the gospel, not chain more than half the church into submissive roles (read subservient roles!) which do not acknowledge their gifts and talents, let alone let them share the gospel.

As for unjust laws, God is totally just. It is just the bad interpretations and translations that have distorted a few texts, obscuring the fact that God wants justice and equality for both genders, and roles were a result of the Fall!

 

[David_1]

Thanks for the thread Rachel.

I have actually experienced these ineffectual men on reddit.
I've had death threats and threats of violence from them. And I'm a fellow male. lol

They have an agenda to hurt women in general, although they won't say it.

 

[David_1]

If I am correct the OP country flag is of India, where less than 3% worship Christ. That's where the core of the problem is. The same can be said of those countries she mentioned.

Have you ever heard: He who is without sin, cast the first stone.

Please stop talking like your country has any 'moral authority'. Don't get me started on the sins of the USA. It would be like me pretending that Australia can speak about dealing with refugees.

3% of India is still a LOT of Christians.

 

[biscuit]

[h=3]Galatians 1:7-9[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.