Repentance Vs Eternal Security

[SeaBass]

not true.

a disciple is one who follows. many follow but never trust. they were never saved, because they never trusted.

In my post #208 I gave three proofs from the bible that Judas was in a saved position when Christ first chose him to be an apostle.

 

[SeaBass]

You can wash an unbeliever by sending him to church but he will soon return to the mire of this world. A man who has been in the presence of Jesus Christ and has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit can never go back to what he was before. The old man dead in trespass and sin is made a new creation in Christ Jesus. New creation in Christ can never go back. Can the butterfly go back?

The problem here is that you think that washing a sow makes it something other than a washed sow. Jesus makes a new man from the old dead one. Newness of life in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Then Peter's example of the dog returning to its vomit and the washed sow returning to the mire make no sense.

Nowhere does the ibble say it is impossible for one to quit believing.

1 Tim 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,"


It is not possible for one to depart from the faith if he never had faith.

It would not be possible for you to depart from NYC if you've NEVER been to NYC.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In my post #208 I gave three proofs from the bible that Judas was in a saved position when Christ first chose him to be an apostle.

1. he was never chosen to be an apostle. He was called to walk with him, Which is a disciple.
2. Your proves are invalid. They do not prove anything.

Again, Why are you in opposition to yourself. Yo claim a person has to repent of sin to be saved. Scripture PROVES judas never repented, and was a thief from day one. And you want us to believe a man who did not repent was ever saved?

You only want to believe this because you need to back your belief up. Give it up. It does not support your belief.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then Peter's example of the dog returning to its vomit and the washed sow returning to the mire make no sense.

Nowhere does the ibble say it is impossible for one to quit believing.

1 Tim 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,"


It is not possible for one to depart from the faith if he never had faith.

It would not be possible for you to depart from NYC if you've NEVER been to NYC.

it makes perfect sense.

A dog represents an unbeliever. He returns to his own vomit, because he was ALWAYS an unbeliever. he may have tried new tricks (to walk with believers as a believer) but he never was made a new creation. he was always a dog. (unbeliever)

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I was just commenting, anyway.

I do wonder how deap-seated his repentance was. It culminated in suicide; not an act of faith. Again, the parable of the sower can be a good guide to the existence of superficial religious experience. In Acts 1.25 it says that Judas 'went to his own place', which sounds ominous.

Blessings.

I believe he really meant it when he repented. We all know that Judas loved money but he wanted no part of those thirty pieces of silver, of course it was after the fact. I believe that he condemned himself so badly that he couldn't take it anymore but that is speculation on my part . . . Judas was buried in potter's field; the land that the priest purchased with the "blood money", aka The field of blood. Other than that it doesn't say where Judas went.

 

[notuptome]

Then Peter's example of the dog returning to its vomit and the washed sow returning to the mire make no sense.

Nowhere does the ibble say it is impossible for one to quit believing.

1 Tim 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith,"


It is not possible for one to depart from the faith if he never had faith.

It would not be possible for you to depart from NYC if you've NEVER been to NYC.

You continue to evade the truth. No one can depart from grace.

To walk by faith is to follow sanctification. Salvation is by grace sanctification is through faith. One does not become sanctified until one has first been saved by grace. No merit of my own but Christ loved me forgave me my sin and made me His very own.

Without the new nature we receive through salvation one can only remain in the darkness and hopelessness of condemnation. The natural man cannot know what is freely given to the Spiritual man in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

A saving faith includes repentance, not void of repentaance.

Jn 3:16 Jesus tied believing to perishing
Lk 13:3,5 Jesus tied repentance to perishing


Jn 3:5------believeth>>>>>>>>>>>not persih/sasved
Lk 13:3----repent>>>>>>>>>>>>>not perish/saved

Since there is just one way to be sved, and the bible does not contradict itslef,the a saving belief includes repentance.

All the belief only in the world will never save an impenitent person.

James said the devils believe and tremble, but their belief only does not include repentance.
Beleif/faith s a wrok, Jn 6:27-29. So in Eph 2:8,9 when Paul sid "not of works" he not excluding the work of belief/faith but was excluding works of merit.

So from Eph 2:8 we see the Epeshians were sved through faith...faith saves.

Eph 2:8-----------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
LK 13:3-----------repentance>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves/not perish
Rom 10:9,10-----confession>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1 Pet 3:21--------baptism>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>saves

Again, only one way to be saved - no alternatives and the bible does not contradict itself, so a saving faith includes repentance, confession and baptism....unless anyone is willing to argue an impenitent,denier of Christ who still in his unremitted/unforgiven sins can be saved?

Yes, we must repent - Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 I don't believe anyone is saying to NOT repent. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. Believing in the only begotten Son of God is faith and that is what brings about salvation - we could even say that repentance and faith go hand and hand.

Once I believe in the only begotten Son of God - I have faith . . . . I confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead - I have faith - I believe the written word of God - I have faith - faith comes from hearing the word of God - I repented - I changed my mind from being an unbeliever to being a believer - I have repented. That is what it means to repent - to change one's mind. So I am saved by the grace of God through my faith in Jesus Christ. Now, if I sin, which I will, I ask forgiveness.

Will works result from my salvation - yes. Do I have to work for my salvation? NO . .

What must we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

"denier of Christ" a denier of Christ is not saved until he has a change of mind - repents.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

That is simply NOT the case with Judas.


Lk 6:13-16 Judas was as much a believing disciple as the other 11 that were chosen.

In Matthew chapter 10, in what some call the "limited commission" that Jesus gave to His apostles, everything said in that chapter is said about ALL the apostles including Judas. For example in verse 40 it was said to Judas "He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." So receiving Judas the apostle was the sme as receiving Christ and God who sent Christ. Verse 19,20 Judas had the Holy SPirit in him enabling Judas to preach inspirationally.

Lastly we are told in Acts 1 that Judas fell by transgression. What did he fall from? If he was "always a sinner" then he was "always fallen". An already fallen person cannot fall. Judas therefore MUST have been in a saved position as an apostle where his transgressions were being forvgiven and yet fell from that saved position.

There is one important difference - Judas was not born again - he was not filled with holy Spirit. He was not part of the twelve on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was first given. . . .so he was not "sealed with that holy Spirit of promise which is our inheritance UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION" . . . . . we are!

Also - the following shows an act of contrition and repentance on Judas' part:

Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Matt. 27:3

 

[john832]

I believe he really meant it when he repented. We all know that Judas loved money but he wanted no part of those thirty pieces of silver, of course it was after the fact. I believe that he condemned himself so badly that he couldn't take it anymore but that is speculation on my part . . . Judas was buried in potter's field; the land that the priest purchased with the "blood money", aka The field of blood. Other than that it doesn't say where Judas went.

I agree and the example of Judas that is much overlooked is that there comes a time when it is too late.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is one important difference - Judas was not born again - he was not filled with holy Spirit. He was not part of the twelve on the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was first given. . . .so he was not "sealed with that holy Spirit of promise which is our inheritance UNTIL THE DAY OF REDEMPTION" . . . . . we are!

Also - the following shows an act of contrition and repentance on Judas' part:

Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, Matt. 27:3

I think the difference is. Judas had worldly sorrow. Because he knew he turned in an innocent man, And they promised not to kill him.

where as Peter when he was confronted. had Godly sorrow. But still had to be shown by CHrist that he could be used by him (feed my sheep, lambs etc)

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I think the difference is. Judas had worldly sorrow. Because he knew he turned in an innocent man, And they promised not to kill him.

where as Peter when he was confronted. had Godly sorrow. But still had to be shown by CHrist that he could be used by him (feed my sheep, lambs etc)

Hi EG,

I see that he repented and returned the thirty pieces of silver - he confess that he had sinned and that he had betrayed innocent blood. That is what scripture says so that's all I have to go by. I can't comment on his intent nor what kind of sorrow drew him to repent for how do I know the intent of his heart? I don't know the intent in the heart of any man.

 

[guestno2]

IF one has a faithful obedience to Christ, keeps Christ works and is faithful unto death, Rev 2:10,26 he can know he is saved.

Well, I am still alive and yet I have certainty that I am saved. Hah, I mean what is wrong with me?
[FONT=&quot]The true is, that I don’t know, if I tomorrow will have this certainty, but I also don’t know, if I tomorrow will be alive. But for right now I have certainty of my salvation.[/FONT]

IF a Christian remains impenitent of his sins, that is, quits walking in the light per 1 Jn 1:7, he can know he will be lost.

If it means that what Jesus said about 5 virgins in Mat 25. than I agree. But we know, that this parable is variously explained (for me all 10 was born again, but 5 of them were outside meaning lost connection with Lord, but most of luth, reform, calv. wouldn’t agree with this explanation) so… I leave this one open

Lk 13:3,5 Jesus said repent or perish. These words do not fit well with UNCONDITIONAL eternal security for Jesus words makes savlation CONDITONAL upon one repenting. SO the man made eternal security is mutually exclusive to biblical repentance.

Hmmmmmmmm… What about babies … and I know, that regardless of my penance, it was still solely and only God grace, Iam sure of it… ye I repent, but hmmm..I don’t think that there is some kind of … I mean it is not directly proportional (repentance and my salvation) I still believe, that salvation is only matter which pertains to God (Creator and Jesus and work of HS)

Have you been watching how the faith only crowd is trying to get an impenitent person into heaven still in his unforgiven, unpardoned sins?

Yes, it is sad and wrong and misguided, and I know what are you talking about. Agree with you. Especially those kind, who just chorally recites two sentences how they believe in the grace of God and than “Christians” painted them with lies, that they are saved now and they do not need to worry about nothing because it is written in Bible (no personal experience, no repentance, no nothing) just sad…

Will those that fail to keep God's command to repent have a right to the tree of life? No.

Agree

be blessed

 

[dcontroversal]

1. he was never chosen to be an apostle. He was called to walk with him, Which is a disciple.
2. Your proves are invalid. They do not prove anything.

Again, Why are you in opposition to yourself. Yo claim a person has to repent of sin to be saved. Scripture PROVES judas never repented, and was a thief from day one. And you want us to believe a man who did not repent was ever saved?

You only want to believe this because you need to back your belief up. Give it up. It does not support your belief.

Did not Jesus say that He had chosen the 12 and one was or is a devil...that the scriptures may be fulfilled....Judas never was saved and was a devil form the beginning. (LOST that is)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi EG,

I see that he repented and returned the thirty pieces of silver - he confess that he had sinned and that he had betrayed innocent blood. That is what scripture says so that's all I have to go by. I can't comment on his intent nor what kind of sorrow drew him to repent for how do I know the intent of his heart? I don't know the intent in the heart of any man.

I think he proved by what he did after. He commited suicide. This shows he had worldly sorry. not Godly Sorrow. He still did not understand God forgave him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Did not Jesus say that He had chosen the 12 and one was or is a devil...that the scriptures may be fulfilled....Judas never was saved and was a devil form the beginning. (LOST that is)

yes, this is exactly what he said..

 

[SarahM777]

yes, this is exactly what he said..

Where does the Bible say Judas was a devil from the beginning? Chapter and verse please.

 

[SeaBass]

1. he was never chosen to be an apostle. He was called to walk with him, Which is a disciple.
2. Your proves are invalid. They do not prove anything.

Again, Why are you in opposition to yourself. Yo claim a person has to repent of sin to be saved. Scripture PROVES judas never repented, and was a thief from day one. And you want us to believe a man who did not repent was ever saved?

You only want to believe this because you need to back your belief up. Give it up. It does not support your belief.

Lk 6:13 "And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;"

Lk 6:14 "Simon, (whom he also named Peter,) and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,"

Lk 6:15 "Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,"

Lk 6:16 "And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor."


Judas is called "His disciple...whom He also named an apostle"


Judas was not a thief/sinner from day one. As Lk 6 shows he was one of CHrist's own disciples that was named to be an apostle.

 

[SeaBass]

it makes perfect sense.

A dog represents an unbeliever. He returns to his own vomit, because he was ALWAYS an unbeliever. he may have tried new tricks (to walk with believers as a believer) but he never was made a new creation. he was always a dog. (unbeliever)

2 Pet 2:

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."

"For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."

"But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."


-------------

The dog and the sow represents those that had escaped the pollutions of this world thru the knowledge of Jesus Christ, but become again entangled with the world.


The knew the way of righteousness but turned from it.

--------------

How can they become AGAIN entangled if they were ALWAYS entangled?

How could they TURN from the way of righteousness and holy commandment delivered unto them if they NEVER had or NEVER known the way of righteousness or the holy commandment?

How could the sow be washed if it was NEVER washed and ALWAYS wallowing in the mire?

 

[SeaBass]

You continue to evade the truth. No one can depart from grace.

To walk by faith is to follow sanctification. Salvation is by grace sanctification is through faith. One does not become sanctified until one has first been saved by grace. No merit of my own but Christ loved me forgave me my sin and made me His very own.

Without the new nature we receive through salvation one can only remain in the darkness and hopelessness of condemnation. The natural man cannot know what is freely given to the Spiritual man in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Gal 5:4 the Galatians had fallen from grace.

2 Cor 6:1 grace can be received in vain.

Again, 1 Tim 4:1 plainly says one can "depart from the faith". So nowhere does the bible teach it is impossilbe for one to quit believing.

 

[SeaBass]

Yes, we must repent - Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 I don't believe anyone is saying to NOT repent. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. Believing in the only begotten Son of God is faith and that is what brings about salvation - we could even say that repentance and faith go hand and hand.

Once I believe in the only begotten Son of God - I have faith . . . . I confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead - I have faith - I believe the written word of God - I have faith - faith comes from hearing the word of God - I repented - I changed my mind from being an unbeliever to being a believer - I have repented. That is what it means to repent - to change one's mind. So I am saved by the grace of God through my faith in Jesus Christ. Now, if I sin, which I will, I ask forgiveness.

Will works result from my salvation - yes. Do I have to work for my salvation? NO . .

What must we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

"denier of Christ" a denier of Christ is not saved until he has a change of mind - repents.

I do think some here are saying the Christian does not have to do the work of repenting of his sins, else he is trying to earn his salvation.

From what you posted, you see that one must repent BEFORE he can be saved. Must confess BEFORE he can be saved. SO you have these righteous works coming BEFORE salvation - which is correct.


But then you posted "Will works result from my salvation - yes."


So here you go in reverse and say one is FIRST saved, THEN he does the workd or repetnace and confession.

You posted "Do I have to work for my salvation? NO"


So you do not have to FIRST do the works of believing, repenting confessing and submitting to baptism BEFORE you are saved?

Until one does works, he remains an unbeliever, impenitent, denier of Christ and lost in his unremitted/unforgiven sins.