Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[Elizabeth619]

There's nothing wrong with the thread, as it does provide information on the truth. Telling others if they continue on this thread they are guilty, guilty because they choose to want to know something or tell something related to the thread, that is quite pathetic to tell people this, who in the world are you to tell us what to do, grow up. If you don't like it go to another thread, you know you have been given the ability to choose, use it.

I believe you told me not to speak to you anymore. That goes both ways.

 

[GraceRevelation]

Hmmm...lol...I just have to giggles at this thread...silly to me.

 

[Apostol2013]

They have ceased, they were used to bring attentIion to the ministry of Jesus, pretty much like a public relations tool.. Tongues that some use today isn't what was used back then, this is a man made thing of doing nothing but making a noise that has no meaning. Tongues that the Apostles used was the ability to talk to others in their own dialect, language as their were many from different areas that spoke different languages, that's the true tongues that the Apostles had the ability to do, not the way it's used now by some.

Now the promise of the gifts are for all generations the word of God says so now i just asked to see your foundation i wanted to see why you continue like this i know your church inside and out bht the point is it is pointless to be in this thread so i leave you a scripture

 

[Apostol2013]

12 A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary.

13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, all that forsake you shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters.

 

[Apostol2013]

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spoke he of the Spirit, (o. pneuma) which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit (o. pneuma) was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[Apostol2013]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and all of you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (o. pneuma)

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are far off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call

 

[Shava]

Now the promise of the gifts are for all generations the word of God says so now i just asked to see your foundation i wanted to see why you continue like this i know your church inside and out bht the point is it is pointless to be in this thread so i leave you a scripture

You know my church inside and out, so why are you asking me a question you already know the answer to? I was going to ask you if you believed in speaking in tongues or miracles and the other gifts the Apostles were able to do, but since you're leaving you don't have to answer the question. Since you already know about the Churches of Christ, which means you know what we believe it takes to be saved, I wish you the best.

 

[watcher2013]

Ksublett is that your correct age -83?

Eph 5:19 (KJV) Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Does the above verse shows the Use of Instruments in worship?
Let us first begin with “psalms”:
A. Greek Meaning
From bible software program “sword”
The Original greek - ψαλμός
Transliteration: psalmos
Phonetic: psal-mos'
Definition: From G5567; a set piece of music, that is, a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp or other instrument; a “psalm”); collectively the book of the Psalms: - psalm. Compare G5603.
The two meanings
1. Set piece of music accompanied with voice, harp or other instrument.
2. Book of psalms
The greek meanings clearly shows that it may mean a music accompanied with voice, harp or instruments.
B. Book of Psalms
Luk_24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
In this particular verse Jesus was clearly referring to the following:
1. Law of Moses- refers to the five books of the torah…
2. The Prophets – refer to the books of written by the prophets (i.e. Isaiah, Ezekiel,Jeremiah..etc)
3. Psalms –refer to the book of psalms
Another verse:
Col_3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Comparing the above verse to Ephesian 5:19, we can see that they are both speaking of the same psalms…
Eph 5:19 (KJV) Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Admonishing one another in psalms, and speaking to youselves in psalms…

But what psalms was AVAILABLE TO THEM?

Both the above letters were from Paul, So Paul can give us the true reference:
Psalms quoted by Paul in his preaching:
Act_13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. (Ps 2:7)
Act_13:35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (ps 16:10)
We can see here that when Paul preached and talks about psalms he was referring to the book of Psalms:
In verse 33 we can see the he particularly mentioned the (second psalms) which what we now know as the second chapter of Psalms…
While In verse 35 he did not specify which psalm (it could be from chapter 1 to chapter 150), thou he has the idea what he was quoting, which we can be found in Chapter 16 of psalms.
Was Paul indeed quoting the book of psalms?
Eph 5:19 (KJV) Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Here are just some verses
Psa 105:2-3 Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him: talk ye of all his wondrous works. Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
Psa 111:1 Praise ye the LORD. I will praise the LORD with my whole heart, in the assembly of the upright, and in the congregation.
Not only it sounds like from the book of psalms but that was the AVAILABLE psalms at that time…
Is this for the House of Israel ONLY? ITS FOR ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH...

ALL THE EARTH HAVE SEEN THE SALVATION OF GOD, SING UNTO THE LORD WITH HARP:
Psa 98:3 He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.
Psa 98:4 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.
Psa 98:5 Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.
Psa 98:6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.
THAT IS HOW ALL THE EARTH SHALL MAKE A JOYFUL NOISE BEFORE THE LORD, THE KING

Maybe you (SHAVVA AND CoC) were taught of the
Bad side of using instruments:
1. Instruments in IDOLATRY
Dan 3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Here the instruments were used in Idolatry but the instruments itself is not the sin but the Idolatry.
2. Instruments as tools for murder
Any musical instruments can be used in Murder, but the instrument itself is not the sin but the one who committed Murder.

If you have not heard of the good side of musical instruments, surely this will result you in condemning the use of Musical instruments.

But do not forget the good side:
1. David played the Harp to heal Saul who was troubled by an EVIL SPIRIT
1Sa_16:15 And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.
1Sa_16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
1Sa_16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
2. Hezekiah was Heard and the Lord healed the people.
2Ch 29:27 And Hezekiah commanded to offer the burnt offering upon the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD began also with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israel.
2Ch 29:28 And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished.
2Ch 30:20 And the LORD hearkened to Hezekiah, and healed the people.
2Ch 30:21 And the children of Israel that were present at Jerusalem kept the feast of unleavened bread seven days with great gladness: and the Levites and the priests praised the LORD day by day, singing with loud instruments unto the LORD.

Musical Instruments can be used sinfully in aid to Idolatry but it can also be used in praising the true God.
Musical instruments indeed produces NOISE…BUT IT CAN ALSO BE A JOYFUL NOISE TO THE LORD.

 

[KSublett]

Ksublett is that your correct age -83?

Yes and on the way to 84: I have done all of the roles in 'church' beginning about 72 years ago but when the "praise sangers flailing flittingly" hit the stage and the musical group GREW the church from about 350 to about 150 I decided that making an "investment with the LORD" was not a good idea since for the third time people with a hidden agenda said that eminent domain gave them the right to DIVERT the lord's house and flock into musical idolatry. Silly me, I had read that you cannot fool an earthworm three times in a row.

Then, I finally learned how to read BLACK text on BROWN paper. I decided it would be more honorable if I invested with that Nigerian widow who promised me 15 million. I told her forget it: I never invest with Nigerian Widows or Fleecers for less than 20 million.

Now: the lexicons never DEFINE a word but show how that word is used in the text. Psallo and Psalm like SOP were most often warrior chant. The Psalms are POETRY and poetry tends to be poetic. Nothing in the Bible is metrical and you cannot sing as in "sanging Fanny Crosby."

Psa 98:5 Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.

Psa 98:6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.

The Jews had been "turned over to worship the starry host" because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The godly people were limited in travel and thereby quarantined from the Civil-Military-Clergy in Jerusalem. Calling and therefore using the ALARM as "vocal or instrumental rejoicing" when they met to REST, Read and Rehearse the Word. Singing is not a pretty thing: Jesus cast the musical minstrels out "more or less violently" so that HIS FAME spread and could not be attribued to the Minstrels (almost always female).

H7891 shı̂yr shûr sheer, shoor The second form being the original form, used in (1 Sam. 18:6 ); a primitive root (rather identical with H7788 through the idea of strolling minstrelsy); to sing

H7788 shûr shoor A primitive root; properly to turn, that is, travel about (as a harlot or a merchant):—go, sing.

Notice that Psalm does not MEAN sing and play: when the Spirit wants to hint about singing with an instruments even common people understood that He would have used a compound word which was different for each instrument, style of playing or whether singing was included. I will post a few and I believe the links to a better resource will work.

Psalms 98:5 [1] Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the [2] harp, and the [3] voice [bleating, crackling, cry, yel] of a [4] psalm.

Psalm is not metrical and that is why people of the East hear the loud abrasive-to-many singing as "screeching or screaming." If you SANG a Psalm (fingers on a string only) this passages proves that you are just making a noise: God always uses the noise word.

1Samuel 18:6 And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick.

This was to provoke jealousy and DELIBERATELY SOWING DISCORD. These SOUNDS as in Revelation 14 create PANIC and the angel to the LIVING warned that this was a sound of JUDGMENT so time is short "preach the gospel to ALL nations." They cannot be attracted with music better received for free from Jimmy Swaggart when they are mostly singing.

The good news is 'you are only as old as you feel'. The BAD NEWS is that it is TRUE.

 

[posthuman]

praise God who has blessed you with so many years!

1Samuel 18:6 And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick.

This was to provoke jealousy and DELIBERATELY SOWING DISCORD.

this too?

And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand;
and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances.
And Miriam answered them,

Sing ye to the Lord, for he hath triumphed gloriously;
the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.

​

(Exodus 15:20-21)

 

[watcher2013]

Yes and on the way to 84:

You have good eyes and steady hand considering you are 83 years old. You have been blessed with long life and probably good health, good for you.

Are you a deacon or elder in a CoC?

Now: the lexicons never DEFINE a word but show how that word is used in the text. Psallo and Psalm like SOP were most often warrior chant. The Psalms are POETRY and poetry tends to be poetic. Nothing in the Bible is metrical and you cannot sing as in "sanging Fanny Crosby."


The Jews had been "turned over to worship the starry host" because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The godly people were limited in travel and thereby quarantined from the Civil-Military-Clergy in Jerusalem. Calling and therefore using the ALARM as "vocal or instrumental rejoicing" when they met to REST, Read and Rehearse the Word. Singing is not a pretty thing: Jesus cast the musical minstrels out "more or less violently" so that HIS FAME spread and could not be attribued to the Minstrels (almost always female).

H7891 shı̂yr shûr sheer, shoor The second form being the original form, used in (1 Sam. 18:6 ); a primitive root (rather identical with H7788 through the idea of strolling minstrelsy); to sing

H7788 shûr shoor A primitive root; properly to turn, that is, travel about (as a harlot or a merchant):—go, sing.

Notice that Psalm does not MEAN sing and play: when the Spirit wants to hint about singing with an instruments even common people understood that He would have used a compound word which was different for each instrument, style of playing or whether singing was included. I will post a few and I believe the links to a better resource will work.

Psalms 98:5 [1] Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the [2] harp, and the [3] voice [bleating, crackling, cry, yel] of a [4] psalm.

Psalm is not metrical and that is why people of the East hear the loud abrasive-to-many singing as "screeching or screaming." If you SANG a Psalm (fingers on a string only) this passages proves that you are just making a noise: God always uses the noise word.

1Samuel 18:6 And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick.

This was to provoke jealousy and DELIBERATELY SOWING DISCORD. These SOUNDS as in Revelation 14 create PANIC and the angel to the LIVING warned that this was a sound of JUDGMENT so time is short "preach the gospel to ALL nations." They cannot be attracted with music better received for free from Jimmy Swaggart when they are mostly singing.

The good news is 'you are only as old as you feel'. The BAD NEWS is that it is TRUE.

Reading your response, you concentrate only on the bad side use of the instruments, And I do agree that instruments can be used wrongfully.

But there are also good used

Another good side, remember Joshua...destroyed the wall of Jericho by the sound of trumpets.

NOISE CAN IRRITATE YOU BUT THERE ARE ALSO JOYFUL NOISE...

 

[KSublett]

I have served as a deacon and elder: when we returned to Murfreesboro, Tn in 1980 a large liberal church of Christ put me on the approved teaching list and I did a bunch of it. I thought that maybe I was a token conservative. I put the whole church through a review of the Old Testament after some complained that "we have gone through marriage relations three times." The preacher has been trying to follow Max Lucado with "daughter churches" and saying that God commands instrumental music: He uses the pattern of the Cane Ridge Revival (witchcraft) and says he wants to sing, clap, playing instruments, hug and even kiss (not me buster). He is what you would call a Strongly Delusional creature where lying wonders are all of the performance type religious observations to which Jesu said the kingdom does not come.

He wants unity in diversity but I tried to show him that the ELDERS are to eject the cunning craftsmen or Sophists meaning self-speakers, singers and instrument players.

That's True: Joshua gave a sound of JUDGMENT but God probably brought the walls down. Church is a School of Christ and not a making warfare word. It is interesting that those who invade happy churches with instruments seem to boast about WORSHIP WARS.

So, when you hear the sounds-like (Revelation) followed by the warning of JUDGMENT and the command to preach the gospel to all nations, maybe you are INSIDE the walls?

Remember how Rahab was saved when the sounds destroyed her city and its inhabitants?

 

[KSublett]

And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand;

Miriam wasn't attending the Synagogue which was ADDED after the fall at Mount Sinai.

Don't forget that God slapped Miriam with a dose of leprosy when she claimed that she was a PROPHET and therefore speaking for God. We don't hear much about her. In fact, Miriam would have been considered a "princess" and therefore automatically a Prophetess of Hathor as the female part of Apis the golden calf at Mount Sinai.

Ex 15:20 And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand;
and all the women WENT OUT after her with timbrels and with dances.

Thus saith the Law:

Here is what Miriam really did:
Yaca (h3318) yaw-tsaw'; a prim. root; to go (causat. bring) out, in a great variety of applications, lit. and fig... break out, ..be condemned, departure), draw forth, escape, exact, fail, fall (out), fetch forth (out), get away.. lead out, pluck out, proceed, pull out,

And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.Ge.4:16

Here is what God thought of her "revelations."

Take heed in the plague of leprosy, that thou observe diligently, and do according to all that the priests the Levites shall teach you: as I commanded them, so ye shall observe to do. Deut 24:8
Remember what the Lord thy God did unto Miriam by the way, after that ye were come forth out of Egypt. Deut 24:9

Here is what Miriam did which was common did what the Israelites did in Egypt and never ceased to do.

Sistrum, a metallic rattle which was used by the Egyptians in celebrating the rites of Isis, and in other lascivious festivals,.Ov. Am. 2, 13, 11 By the Jews, Vulg. 1 Reg. [Samuel] 18, 6 .--Hence sarcastically, as if used for a war - trumpet by the wanton Cleopatra Verg. A.8.696 Luc. 10.63

-Prophe-ta I. a foreteller, SOOTHSAYER prophet... oraculorumque interpretes, sacerdotes Aegyptiorum, quos prophetas vocant, [Priestess of Egpt prophetess call out] Aegyptius, propheta primarius

PHRASE: Aegyptius, propheta primarius 1. Aegyptius,
2. Prophetai
3. PrimariusI. one of the first, of the first rank, chief, principal, excellent, remarkable, primarius parasitus,

The word PARASITE in Greek defines people who see "godliness as a means of financial gain." Preaching is a dangerous thing unless you are comfortable with the promise of Jesus that, like Him, you will be hated and despised if you obey the command to SPEAK or teach that which has been taught. No form of music was commanded for the synagogue or church.

Christ ordained the Qahal, Synagogue, Ekklesia or Church of Christ (the Rock) in the wilderness. The weekly assembly to REST is DIFFERENT from Miriam causing the women to escape and they just repeated as MANTRA one of the phrases. Moses and Aaron RECITED the Song which would be SUNG later as judgmental proof that they rejected Grace.

Thank about: a ladies band of singers and instrument players in the Easter Parade.
is NOT the same as
A Church which is defined as A SCHOOL OF THE WORD where the commanded practice is "to use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning. A Disciple is a learner commanded to learn that which Christ ordained in the PROPHETS and APOSTLES. None of the Law of Moses or David's Law of the abandoned Monarchy had LEARNING THE WORD as its Driven Purpose.

Nothing to the cross I bring: we be students and the flow of information is one way. "come before him in silence" applies to both men and women so we can "all be saved and come to a knowledge of the TRUTH-the Word, Logos, Regulative principle.

 

[dcontroversal]

Lets take this obtrusive reasoning to a whole new level...you say that the bible doesn't say to use musical instruments in way of worship, because it is not found explicitly in the N.T.?....RIGHT?

Do you have a church building that you worship in?.....Show me scripture that tells us to build church buildings in the N.T.
Do You pass a plate for money (offering).....which verses command us to (pass the plate)....quote if you will!
Do you have any programs and or the American flag or so called Christian flag flying in your (non called for church building)
what scriptures do you use to justify the flags if you have them or the programs
Do you put up ex Pagan idols in celebration of the Birth of Christ as in trees and lights? Read Jeremiah 10 and then justify the tree if you use it.....or show me scriptures....

Your reasoning is flawed and your religion was started by a man whose last name was not Christ!

There are multitudes of things that ALL CHURCHES do that are not found explicitly in scriptures and yet are biblical as God allows boundaries within the word of God and as long as we remain within the boundaries we are acceptable unto Jesus!

 

[Shava]

The bible commands singing, which has no need for musical instruments to be explicitly noticed in the N.T. Christmas is a man made day to celebrate Christ in which isn't authorized. Celebrating Christmas as a Santa Claus day is what I believe in, so trees are fine to put your gifts to exchange to one another. Church buildings are a necessity in today's society due to the amount of functions that can be performed in a church, such as preachers office, library, baptismal, different classrooms for different ages, meetings, and on and on There's a big difference between an aid and an addition.

 

[watcher2013]

I have served as a deacon and elder: when we returned to Murfreesboro, Tn in 1980 a large liberal church of Christ put me on the approved teaching list and I did a bunch of it. I thought that maybe I was a token conservative. I put the whole church through a review of the Old Testament after some complained that "we have gone through marriage relations three times." The preacher has been trying to follow Max Lucado with "daughter churches" and saying that God commands instrumental music: He uses the pattern of the Cane Ridge Revival (witchcraft) and says he wants to sing, clap, playing instruments, hug and even kiss (not me buster). He is what you would call a Strongly Delusional creature where lying wonders are all of the performance type religious observations to which Jesu said the kingdom does not come.

He wants unity in diversity but I tried to show him that the ELDERS are to eject the cunning craftsmen or Sophists meaning self-speakers, singers and instrument players.

he wants to sing, clap, playing instruments, hug and even kiss...
(I thought that you have issues only to the use of Musical instruments but it seems that there are many, and you consider this unbiblical because you called the preacher STRONG DELUSIONAL CREATURE)

And automatically brand all those who sing with instruments on the same category... (like King David)

That's True: Joshua gave a sound of JUDGMENT but God probably brought the walls down. Church is a School of Christ and not a making warfare word. It is interesting that those who invade happy churches with instruments seem to boast about WORSHIP WARS.

There is no question about God bringing down the walls of Jericho...He's the one who commanded Joshua.

Biblically there is no sin if you worship with instruments or without ...The sin is who Is he you worship...The True God or an IDOL.

]So, when you hear the sounds-like (Revelation) followed by the warning of JUDGMENT and the command to preach the gospel to all nations, maybe you are INSIDE the walls?

Remember how Rahab was saved when the sounds destroyed her city and its inhabitants?

Rahab was inside the walls and yet she and those who were with her were saved from the slaughter, while the rest perished.

That sound brought judgment to those who destined to perished and salvation to those who are not...

Again..instruments can be used to evil...and it can be used to good.

 

[dcontroversal]

The bible commands singing, which has no need for musical instruments to be explicitly noticed in the N.T. Christmas is a man made day to celebrate Christ in which isn't authorized. Celebrating Christmas as a Santa Claus day is what I believe in, so trees are fine to put your gifts to exchange to one another. Church buildings are a necessity in today's society due to the amount of functions that can be performed in a church, such as preachers office, library, baptismal, different classrooms for different ages, meetings, and on and on There's a big difference between an aid and an addition.[/QUOTE]

Really...talk about double talk and hypocrisy hahah wow!....SHOW ME SCRIPTURES IN THE N.T. THAT TEACHES US THAT WE NEED CHURCH BUILDINGS TO WORSHIP GOD IN.......your hilarious and you are applying a double standard here which is obvious....Jesus didn't need a church building and he ministered just fine to the 5000 and 4000 without the above...

What a double standard.....

AID and ADDITION....whether building or instrument they are one and the same to aid and or in addition of singing....in aid or addition to for a capacity to worship...

 

[Elizabeth619]

I have served as a deacon and elder: when we returned to Murfreesboro, Tn in 1980 a large liberal church of Christ put me on the approved teaching list and I did a bunch of it. I thought that maybe I was a token conservative. I put the whole church through a review of the Old Testament after some complained that "we have gone through marriage relations three times." The preacher has been trying to follow Max Lucado with "daughter churches" and saying that God commands instrumental music: He uses the pattern of the Cane Ridge Revival (witchcraft) and says he wants to sing, clap, playing instruments, hug and even kiss (not me buster). He is what you would call a Strongly Delusional creature where lying wonders are all of the performance type religious observations to which Jesu said the kingdom does not come.

He wants unity in diversity but I tried to show him that the ELDERS are to eject the cunning craftsmen or Sophists meaning self-speakers, singers and instrument players.

You must be talking about Rubel Shelly. I know my mother said he went very liberal, and Lipscomb University has never recovered from his teachings.

f course I am a "rival" of Lipscomb. I went to Freed-Hardeman University.

P,S,. I live about an hour and a half from Murfressboro

 

[Alligator]

You must be talking about Rubel Shelly. I know my mother said he went very liberal, and Lipscomb University has never recovered from his teachings.

f course I am a "rival" of Lipscomb. I went to Freed-Hardeman University.

P,S,. I live about an hour and a half from Murfressboro

Rubel Shelly baptized me, before he went off the deep end. We attended the Whitehaven Church of Christ where he preached. We became good friends. The last I heard, he was president of Rochester Univ. in Michigan.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Rubel Shelly baptized me, before he went off the deep end. We attended the Whitehaven Church of Christ where he preached. We became good friends. The last I heard, he was president of Rochester Univ. in Michigan.

Mom and I were talking about him earlier today. She thought he had already passed away.

I had a cousin who went to Lipscomb back when he was big there. He really messed her up. Her and her family has now converted to Catholicism.