Repentance Vs Eternal Security
- Thread starter SeaBass
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol. I am not talking about what happens AFTER a person gets saved.
I am talking about HOW a person gets saved.
if your not saved, ANY work you do will be like filthy rags handing them to God. they will be rejected.
UMM sorry but I think with you said here can cause problems with HOW it was stated
All we have to do is sit still and trust him, and say Yes Lord, I want your gift. He does all the heavy lifting (work)
By the way my Bible says that what we must to be saved is to REPENT and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Biblical repentance is defined as this
(2.) Metanoeo, meaning to change one's mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge. This verb, with (3) the cognate noun _metanoia_, is used of true repentance, a change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised.
Repentance is also ACTIVE not PASSIVE.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
So you disagree this is how one gets saved, recieves eternal life, Is adopted into the family of God. Is justified, Is washed and regenerated? Is made a new creature in Christ. is .... (I can go on and on and on) that is a scary thought. And you should be scared you would even suggest anything different.
My Bible says it is the work of God that we believe in the one he sent. If it is the work of God we believe, And we CAN NOT believe UNLESS we repent, Then God must have done the work which allowed us to repent in the first place..
Who is it that "carried the heavy load" of work, which allows us to repent in the first place? YOU??
Where did I say it was OUR work? What I said is it is NOT PASSIVE but active.
And again WHERE did I ever OUR WORKS SAVE US?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol..
You need to read all your posts again, From the first time you asked me to show where God did all the heavy lifting to save us.
How else would I take what you say than to say you must add your own work to help save yourself.
EG I think you missed what I was asking about?
Where is this in the Bible?
All we have to do is sit still and trust him, and say Yes Lord, I want your gift. He does all the heavy lifting (work)
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
and I will ask you. HOW ELSE CAN ONE GET SAVED?
I am talking HOW ONE GETS SAVED. Not what one does AFTER he is saved.
and you wonder why I think you teach works?? If you think salvation is ANY OTHER WAY, you believe in a works based gospel..
B
BradC
Guest
Why do so many make repentance a sole issue of turning and abstaining from sin? First, it is the goodness of God through the conviction of the Spirit that leads us to repentance in the first place. That conviction takes us to the cross where our sins were paid for and put away by Jesus Christ. It opens the eyes of our understanding so that we can see that we have sinned and that our sin has separated us from God who loves us. The sin we have is not the righteousness of God and our own righteousness that we have trusted in falls short and is nothing more than filthy rags. This conviction draws us to the One who did a work on our behalf that we might be forgiven and cleansed and be able to receive God's righteousness by faith through believing upon His Son.
When we believe and trust in Christ, we are turning from ourselves and everything we trusted in and we lean, trust and believe in the righteousness of God. We turn from sin (or self) through the goodness of God and receive eternal redemption that was obtained for us through the finished work of Jesus Christ crucified. Salvation we receive by grace through faith is not based upon our repentance of sin but upon the cross that put away our sin so that we could trust in the righteousness of God by faith. To repent and believe is to turn from self unto God and believe upon the one whom God sent to take away our sins. When we believe, we are instantly made clean and righteous and we are put in right standing with God all through faith in what Christ for us and not in our repentance. Our repentance is when we change our mind about who we are in Adam (the old man) and agree with God that Adam was crucified along with the sin of Adam.
When we believe we become new creatures in Christ, old things passed away and all things become new because we have been accepted and placed IN CHRIST, the second Adam (the new man). In Christ we are justified, sanctified, imputed with God's righteousness and sealed by the eternal Spirit until the redemption of our bodies. No man, not even God can or will break that eternal seal nor will we ever be rejected or forsaken by the One who has redeemed us with His own precious blood.
When we believe and trust in Christ, we are turning from ourselves and everything we trusted in and we lean, trust and believe in the righteousness of God. We turn from sin (or self) through the goodness of God and receive eternal redemption that was obtained for us through the finished work of Jesus Christ crucified. Salvation we receive by grace through faith is not based upon our repentance of sin but upon the cross that put away our sin so that we could trust in the righteousness of God by faith. To repent and believe is to turn from self unto God and believe upon the one whom God sent to take away our sins. When we believe, we are instantly made clean and righteous and we are put in right standing with God all through faith in what Christ for us and not in our repentance. Our repentance is when we change our mind about who we are in Adam (the old man) and agree with God that Adam was crucified along with the sin of Adam.
When we believe we become new creatures in Christ, old things passed away and all things become new because we have been accepted and placed IN CHRIST, the second Adam (the new man). In Christ we are justified, sanctified, imputed with God's righteousness and sealed by the eternal Spirit until the redemption of our bodies. No man, not even God can or will break that eternal seal nor will we ever be rejected or forsaken by the One who has redeemed us with His own precious blood.
You're NOT getting what I am saying,both to repent and to believe are what we are to DO. Neither is SITTING STILL. To repent and believe comes BEFORE being saved. Both are ACTIVE not PASSIVE. God told us to DO BOTH and we would be saved.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol.
No, You do not get what I am saying
BOTH of those are works of God. Can you repent and believe in something that has no power. has no redemptive value, has no guarantee of being succesfull? NO.
It is ALL of Gods work.
John 6:[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
Sorry EG,,
You do not get what to repent and to believe is. In order for one to be able to repent and to believe one has ALREADY been given the measure of faith for one to do so. One is ACTING on the measure of faith one has been GIVEN. They are not ACTS OF WORKS but of faith.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No sis, You do not get it.
My faith came from the work of God
My repentnance came from the law of God (condemnation) and the promise of God (salvation)
Thus they are works of God.
I trusted God. A called out to him. HE DID THE HEAVY LIFTING (ie the cross)
B
BradC
Guest
Yes, both repent and believe are in the active voice for the subject who is responding. They are also passive because of what was initiated to them through the gospel. They would not be able to actively repent and believe unless the gospel was preached to them and that is passive, or they received the action of the gospel being preached to them. The subject receives the action of the message of the gospel preached to them and the conviction of the Spirit that comes with that gospel. The subject then in turn responds by initiating the action of turning from what they presently believe (repent - they change their mind and agree with the gospel) and put their trust (or believe) in the gospel message that includes the cross of Christ crucified. Their sins are forgiven and cleansed through the shed blood of the gospel of Christ, they are instantly justified and put in right standing with God by receiving God's imputed righteousness through faith when they believed. Salvation is not the by product, but is the means and result of what takes place through faith and is given to the subject as a unmerited gift of grace. We are saved by grace, through faith and not of ourselves or of works, but it is a gift of God.
Sorry EG,
But it DOES not appear that you are even reading what I am saying. When one is given a measure of faith whose work is it? The faith does not come from us does it? Repentance and belief COME out of the measure of faith that God gave us. The Bible plainly tells us WITHOUT faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. How can one even REPENT and have it pleasing to God WITHOUT FAITH? Faith is the work of God.
You fail to explain:
How can they become AGAIN entangled if they were ALWAYS entangled?
How could they TURN from the way of righteousness and holy commandment delivered unto them if they NEVER had or NEVER known the way of righteousness or the holy commandment?
How could the sow be washed if it was NEVER washed and ALWAYS wallowing in the mire?
You are posting under the ASSUMPTION Judas was always lost. which he was not. I already gave soem biblcal proof he was not always lost: here are some additional proofs Judas was not always lost:
(1) The identical phraseology is employed to describe the enrollment of Judas into Christ’s service as that used of the other eleven: “And he [Christ] called unto him his twelve disciples, and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of disease and all manner of sickness” (Matthew 10:1; emphasis added). Where is the evidence that eleven belonged to Christ, but one was Satan’s? All twelve were his (cf. Acts 1:17).
(2) Judas happily accepted the office. There is no evidence he was forced to be a pawn in the plan of redemption. What would have motivated a charlatan to accept a position that involved no material gain but only sacrifice and significant persecution? Jesus discouraged the insincere from following him (Luke 9:57-62).
(3) After more than three years of association, the disciples entertained no suspicion of Judas’ duplicity, but had confidence in him. He served as their treasurer; and as noted earlier, they apparently yielded to his influence. At the final supper, none suspected him of being the traitor; they each asked, “Is it I?” (Matthew 26:22).
(4) Jesus’ love for Judas was manifested to the very end, one indication of which was that he was given the premier seat at the last supper. The Lord obviously reclined next to Judas, in “his bosom” so to speak, just as John was situated with reference to Jesus (cf. John 13:23). For a study of this obvious seating configuration (see Edersheim 1947, 494).
(5) One of the most compelling arguments against the theory that Judas was never saved is grounded in an incident in Matthew 12. As noted in Matthew 10:1, 8, Judas possessed the same miraculous powers as the other eleven (as Sumner conceded [see above]). Jesus healed a man who was possessed by a demon (Matthew 12:22ff). In response, the Pharisees charged that he cast out demons by the power of Beelzebub. With brilliant logic, Christ pointed out that “every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation.” If Satan were casting out Satan, he would be divided against himself!
No rebuttal was offered because none was adequate to the task! If the Lord had enlisted a child of Satan as an apostle, would he have empowered the man with the ability to cast out demons? Would not such have been wholly inconsistent with his argument against the Pharisees?
(6) John 17 contains the prayer uttered by the Lord en route to Gethsemane. The prayer falls into three sections: (a) a petition for himself (vv. 1-8), (b) prayer for his disciples (vv. 9-19), © prayer for the future church (vv. 20-26). We focus momentarily on the petition for his immediate disciples.
While the prayer obviously was on behalf of the eleven remaining apostles, reference is made nonetheless to the original twelve. It therefore is not correct to contend that the language of the Lord has no relevance to Judas; it certainly did.
Note these crucial points, beginning with verse six: (a) Christ “manifested” (aorist tense, relating to a past situation, i.e., his ministry period) himself unto the men God gave him “out of the world” (v. 6). They belonged to God and were given to the Son. That included Judas. (b) Jesus conveyed the words of God unto these men and they “received them” (v. 8a). © They “believed” the Son was sent from the Father (v. 8b).
Of the twelve, the Lord subsequently said: “While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction” (v. 12, ESV). Focus on the term “except” in the last phrase. It translates the Greek ei me. Baptist scholar A. T. Robertson stated that “this phrase marks an exception,” and he cites this passage (1919, 1188). In his commentary, Word Pictures in the New Testament, he says Judas was a “sad and terrible exception” (1932, 278). This constitutes positive proof that “the men” of verses six through eight embraced the full complement of the twelve. Jesus “lost” Judas. The traitor’s lostness resulted from his wrong choices, and he “fell away” (Acts 1:17, 25).
Wayne Jackson
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/1480-judas-iscariot-from-apostle-to-apostate
Sarah is correct.
Coffman Commentary:
One of you is a devil ... does not mean that Judas had been a devil from the beginning, or that he was a devil when Jesus selected him as an apostle. Judas "by transgression fell, Acts 1:25, and it is impossible for one to fall from an eminence he does not have. Some considerable time had passed since Judas was chosen; and, during that interval, the fall had taken place, hence Jesus' use of the present tense, "is a devil."
I found it...thank you. I have studied and learned at the feet of many other people more knowledgeable than I.
A