What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?

[peacefulbeliever]

Shadows are cast because of light. In darkness there is no shadow. A shadow is cast because something is there. Take the substance away, and there is to shadow. Take the light away and there is no shadow. You cannot have one without the other.

I think you are trying to read much more into something than is necessary. I know what causes a shadow but I don't think that is what is meant every time the word is used. There is also another meaning of "shadow" - hint of something: a slight suggestion or hint of something. When Abraham was to sacrifice his only son it was a "shadow" or "hint of something to come" and that was God's sacrifice of his only begotten Son. So in the New Testament that shadow was brought to light by the crucifixion of God's only begotten Son.

Colossians 2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon or of the sabbath Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is Christ

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

ALSO:

2 Corinthians 3:3-17 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by the reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

 

[Grandpa]

You have labeled me as not being a Christian in my estimation, because I do as the Pharisees did, being under the law. One can't be under the law and a Christian at the same time. I am however subject to the law.

The Galatians were Christians. Acts 15 says that there were Pharisees which believed. Christians do have errors in what they do and what they think. It doesn't make them not Christians. As long as they see the error of their way and come to Christ in repentance.

I haven't labeled you. You have been too vague for me to label. But you seem like you are on the same path of error as the Galatians. *seem* I don't know for sure. Its just certain liberties you have taken with your interpretations that have led me to think this. God sees the heart. I don't.

Perhaps if you described what being subject to the law entails...

 

[RedTent]

But to those who are following Christ. The law has no value. Only love and hope and following the spirit has value. [/COLOR]

Following the spirit, love, and hope IS following the law. The law is putting these things into terms that we can understand and still be in our physical bodies. None of these can work separate from the other until we pass on to the next world. Law without spirit and love is only empty. Spirit and love without the doing that is explained in law is dead. If the law was nothing, if it had no value, then it would have to follow that much of scripture is for nothing and has no value.

You have said this very thing in your posts, but "the law has no value" does not agree with what you teach.

 

[just-me]

The Galatians were Christians. Acts 15 says that there were Pharisees which believed. Christians do have errors in what they do and what they think. It doesn't make them not Christians. As long as they see the error of their way and come to Christ in repentance.

I haven't labeled you. You have been too vague for me to label. But you seem like you are on the same path of error as the Galatians. *seem* I don't know for sure. Its just certain liberties you have taken with your interpretations that have led me to think this. God sees the heart. I don't.

Perhaps if you described what being subject to the law entails...

I see no error in esteeming all of God's word as relevant. I'm on the right path. That includes the law like Passover, the exodus, the giving of the law on the same day as Pentecost, the Passover lamb taken on the same day Jesus entered Jerusalem before His Crucifixion, celebrating the three feasts in spirit, and on and on. That's just for starters in what I have learned from the law and how it relates to Christ Jesus. How can I not want to share that because of grace and faith, and a new way through Christ Jesus. I have just started, and it's all positiveness. I am subject to that. I think you were listening to E g's thoughts more than mine.

2 Corinthians 1:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

 

[just-me]

Following the spirit, love, and hope IS following the law. The law is putting these things into terms that we can understand and still be in our physical bodies. None of these can work separate from the other until we pass on to the next world. Law without spirit and love is only empty. Spirit and love without the doing that is explained in law is dead. If the law was nothing, if it had no value, then it would have to follow that much of scripture is for nothing and has no value.

You have said this very thing in your posts, but "the law has no value" does not agree with what you teach.

If there were no value in the first, there would be no value in the second.

 

[Grandpa]

Grandpa and EG: You both understand so much. You know that it is through the spirit we live, it is the spirit we are to listen to. You know that the spirit leads you to Christ, and Christ leads you to doing right and to forgiveness. But you balk at the written word if that word gives instructions on living, you call it law and both of you are solidly against it.

Do you think, in the old testament, that God wasted time giving law to the Amorites or Hittites? God gave the law to those who were His. You think it is something to be used only for gaining salvation, and that is a misuse of the law. It would be like using water to make clothes dry. Law is to be used for the walk in Christ after salvation, it is no good before that.

You are not hurting yourselves with this preaching against law, you are hurting the church. Your understanding of God and His ways protect you. But a preaching against all that the 119th Psalm says about law is very harmful to those who are babies in Christ. Accepting sin in lives acts as a barrier so God cannot reach them, and by your teaching you speak against getting rid of this barrier to God's grace.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
[SUP]6[/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

The letter of the law kills. But the Spirit gives Life.

So let's go back to the fruit of the Spirit, again. I think we will be going back to this alot...

Which of the fruits of the Spirit will cause a person to break your instructions for living? Even baby christians. How will the fruit of the Spirit cause anyone to stumble at living?

I'm not against the law. The law has its purpose. Its just not for the Christian after Salvation. It is for bringing people to the knowledge of their sin and their need for a Saviour. Once a person is free from the yoke of bondage it is important that they not be entangled again.

God will bring His People to Salvation. There must be a time in a Christians life when they find out that they are no longer under the law. There must be a time when a Christian trusts in Christ more than they trust in themselves and their work at the law.

 

[just-me]

I think you are trying to read much more into something than is necessary. I know what causes a shadow but I don't think that is what is meant every time the word is used. There is also another meaning of "shadow" - hint of something: a slight suggestion or hint of something. When Abraham was to sacrifice his only son it was a "shadow" or "hint of something to come" and that was God's sacrifice of his only begotten Son. So in the New Testament that shadow was brought to light by the crucifixion of God's only begotten Son.

Colossians 2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon or of the sabbath Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is Christ

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

ALSO:

2 Corinthians 3:3-17 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by the reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

And to carry on our conversation the physical temple made by hands is/was the shadow of the spiritual temple that we are, made by Christ. All that happened in the old temple is to be seen through the spiritual eyes He has given to us. Like the caul, or if you will, the gallbladder that stores the bile that comes from the liver, and aids in digestion, and the fat and kidneys. They all mean something spiritually because they are destroyed by fire like Jesus Christ baptizes with fire.

 

[danalee]

You endorse some good points. Why did Jesus quote the law to Satan, was it the law of Christ, or was it that Jesus has/had the power over the adversary outside of the law?

Hebrews 4:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Deuteronomy 8:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Matthew 4:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Please explain, I'd love to learn why...

 

[just-me]

I'm not against the law. The law has its purpose. Its just not for the Christian after Salvation. It is for bringing people to the knowledge of their sin and their need for a Saviour. Once a person is free from the yoke of bondage it is important that they not be entangled again.

God will bring His People to Salvation. There must be a time in a Christians life when they find out that they are no longer under the law. There must be a time when a Christian trusts in Christ more than they trust in themselves and their work at the law.

Further from my last post to you. In studying the feast of tabernacles, it becomes clear to me that the attitude of the people who celebrated this should be the same attitude for the churches today. I think it has some very good illustrations. You might ask if I keep that feast physically. the answer would be no because I don't go out and cut vegetation for the week of the feast. Every branch of foliage used in this feast has spiritual meaning in a very profound way, and the persuasion of the feast is to live our salvation in remembering what God has done for us, giving us the hope in Him for our future. If we are to minister to the lost, as you have said that the law has it's purpose, one needs to know it and use it for the sake of the lost. That's some of loving your neighbor as yourself.

Romans 8:24-28 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

[Grandpa]

Sorry I have to piggyback on your post because it's so good.

Jeremiah 4:4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, circumcise your hearts, you people of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem, or my wrath will flare up and burn like fire because of the evil you have done-- burn with no one to quench it.
Jeremiah 9:25 "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh--
Jeremiah 30:6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

And we all know He promised the new covenant through Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Acts 7:51-53 You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered, you who received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.”

And here we see how the Jews were uncircumcised in heart and ears and how they resisted the Holy Spirit here - they received the law as delivered by angels and did not keep it.

What does this tell us?

It tells us that you, just-me and john832 think you are somehow stronger and better than Gods chosen people who couldn't follow the law in their own strength.

It tells us that there is a lot of pride in the power of the will and flesh.

Thank God for Jesus. He helps us to overcome even our own selves. Our feelings of strength and superiority and pride.

What you missed was the power of God in those scriptures. God Himself will circumcise the heart and the heart of our offspring so that we will love the Lord our God with all of our hearts and souls, so that we will live.

How? Through the Spirit which gives Life.

The Great Equalizer. God is not a respecter of persons. Why? Because none of us can keep His Law by some special ability or strength of our own. Each and every one of us must come to Him in honesty and Truth. That is what subjecting yourself to the Holy Spirit is. Stepping out into the light... Admitting to yourself and to God that you are not His Subjects but that you wish to be. Appealing to His Mercy and Grace. That's how you stop resisting the Holy Spirit. Not by thinking in your carnal mind that you are keeping His Perfect Law by your flesh and will.

 

[just-me]

You endorse some good points. Why did Jesus quote the law to Satan, was it the law of Christ, or was it that Jesus has/had the power over the adversary outside of the law?

Hebrews 4:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Deuteronomy 8:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Matthew 4:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Please explain, I'd love to learn why...

Jesus warded off Satan with the words of His Father. All three times Jesus was quoting the law that His Father gave to Moses.
Deuteronomy 8:3 is already explained. I will give the other 2 references. The reason Jesus quoted the law is because God's word has power against the adversary. It is written for us to see, and know that. The word of God lasts forever. Jesus is given power through His Father, and by Him we also have power through Christ. Victory.

Matthew 4:5-7 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Deuteronomy 6:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

Matthew 4:8-10 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Deuteronomy 6:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

The quotation are not identical because of the differences in translation between Greek, and Hebrew.

 

[Grandpa]

I see no error in esteeming all of God's word as relevant. I'm on the right path. That includes the law like Passover, the exodus, the giving of the law on the same day as Pentecost, the Passover lamb taken on the same day Jesus entered Jerusalem before His Crucifixion, celebrating the three feasts in spirit, and on and on. That's just for starters in what I have learned from the law and how it relates to Christ Jesus. How can I not want to share that because of grace and faith, and a new way through Christ Jesus. I have just started, and it's all positiveness. I am subject to that. I think you were listening to E g's thoughts more than mine.

2 Corinthians 1:19-20 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

I don't see any error in esteeming Gods word as relevant either.

Neither did the Galatians.

Neither did Judaism.

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 

[danalee]

You endorse some good points. Why did Jesus quote the law to Satan, was it the law of Christ, or was it that Jesus has/had the power over the adversary outside of the law?

Hebrews 4:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Deuteronomy 8:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.

Matthew 4:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


Jesus warded off Satan with the words of His Father. All three times Jesus was quoting the law that His Father gave to Moses.
Deuteronomy 8:3 is already explained. I will give the other 2 references. The reason Jesus quoted the law is because God's word has power against the adversary. It is written for us to see, and know that. The word of God lasts forever. Jesus is given power through His Father, and by Him we also have power through Christ. Victory.

Matthew 4:5-7 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Deuteronomy 6:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

Matthew 4:8-10 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Deuteronomy 6:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;

The quotation are not identical because of the differences in translation between Greek, and Hebrew.

Ahhh....I'm happy for this knowledge. I do quote those passages when I feel challenged...and now will for sure continue to do so. Thanks for paying attention and answering my question.

 

[just-me]

Galatians 3:23-29 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Many misunderstand what a schoolmaster was during Paul's day. They were young men in their late teens who lead the young children to school for safety with the route that was best. When the children were more mature, they would go to school without a leader, and eventually be a leader themselves.

Without this understanding, one can easily misunderstand and say that faith and the law don't mix. On the contrary, when we are mature enough to know the way to school, and also lead others to see the route that needs to be taken that lead us to Christ. Now days it is evident that some are saying that there is another way to get to school and the youngsters have no idea that it isn't the route God laid out before hand. They may never get there.

Jesus was the first schoolmaster, and that's why He said "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." in Matthew 5:17-18 (KJV)

He also said "It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones." Luke 17:1-2 (KJV)

 

[just-me]

I don't see any error in esteeming Gods word as relevant either.

Neither did the Galatians.

Neither did Judaism.

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

The hearing of faith. I thought I made that clear. Without faith I would have no motivation for what I relayed in my previous post to you. Faith is the spiritual motivation for my desire to see the magnificent glory of God. Without them I would be ever learning and never coming to the knowledge of the truth I have found so far. Through Christ Jesus, God is seen as great beyond all things. More that I ever imagined years ago !!!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I thought you said if you focused on the law it was condemning to you. I take that as concentrating on the don't's. That's what the Pharisees did to Jesus. Don't do this and don't do that, and they were trying to condemn Him. didn't work though.

Actually, I did not say that God said it.

I focus on the dos. The spirit of love and self sacrifice. You have not explained how if one does this, They would need to focus on the do nots. Why would they? If they are focused on giving, there is no room for self now is there?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Without the 10 commandments and go straightly to love in our own ways these would happen:
1. I love You but I also love others. If I'm busy make out with others it doesn't mean I don't love You. If You love me you would understand.
2. I love You so much when I make out with others I would imagine it's you.
3. I love You so much Your name is always on my lips even when I'm making out with others.
4. I love You so much You are always in my heart so we don't really need to spend time together.
But see what He said through Hosea.

lol

That person does not need the ten commandments. He is focused on self. He is lying to himself. He does not have love, Thus he is not looking to the spirit. So he is fulfilling the lust of the flesh.

If you gave him the ten commandments, He would say, Yep I believe them, and keep on doing it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Following the spirit, love, and hope IS following the law.

It is? So serving our neighbor is thou shalt not? Helping our friend is thou shalt not? Loving our wife or huband is thou shalt not?

This makes no sense whatsoever.

The law is putting these things into terms that we can understand and still be in our physical bodies. None of these can work separate from the other until we pass on to the next world. Law without spirit and love is only empty. Spirit and love without the doing that is explained in law is dead. If the law was nothing, if it had no value, then it would have to follow that much of scripture is for nothing and has no value.

You have said this very thing in your posts, but "the law has no value" does not agree with what you teach.

lol. Again. Loving is not thou shalt not. Loving is DO UNTO OTHERS.

Thou shalt not leads us to Christ. Because we DO THE THINGS WE ARE TOLD NOT TO DO..

 

[just-me]

Actually, I did not say that God said it.

I focus on the dos. The spirit of love and self sacrifice. You have not explained how if one does this, They would need to focus on the do nots. Why would they? If they are focused on giving, there is no room for self now is there?

Read what I have said to grampa, and you will see that we are finally starting to understand each other? Maybe you will see that I'm not advocating things that you have assumed of me. And then maybe you will continue to see me as a prideful self righteous slob. Hard tellin. Could it be that you are starting to see the law as beneficial to your Christlike life?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Read what I have said to grampa, and you will see that we are finally starting to understand each other? Maybe you will see that I'm not advocating things that you have assumed of me. And then maybe you will continue to see me as a prideful self righteous slob. Hard tellin. Could it be that you are starting to see the law as beneficial to your Christlike life?

The law was beneficial to me BEFORE I came to Christ.

It has no benefit to me now. If I focus on the law. I will (as grandpa rightly said) do nothing but praise myself for being a good little Christian (which would be an outright lie) Not be focused on doing the things God wants me to do (serve others) or give up trying to work so hard. Because I realise the truth. I just can;t keep the law, And that is required by God. so why bother.

I have done all three of these things, And seen so many other people do these things in my 20 years at a legalistic church. No growth No life. No happiness. Just fear (people were so afraid to even admit their struggles. afrad they would get judged which they would in that church)

Sorry, I must side with Grandpa on this one. I have experienced being under subjection to the law. There is no life in that. And I will never go back to that again.