What makes it impossible for a carnal mind to be subject to the law?
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In subjection, submissive, and subject are all the same Greek words in context. Which one will you choose if any? If one is submissive to God through Christ Jesus, you esteem all that God have ever said, and all of His righteous judgments. Fear, my friend fear, not scared. being under the law is being scared. being lifted up is fearing the Lord by His Spirit.
Hebrews 4:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Context.
Hebrews 2:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
Context
1 John 4:17-21 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]We love him, because he first loved us.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
Comes right back to love doesn't it?
Hebrews 4:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Context.
Hebrews 2:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
Context
1 John 4:17-21 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]We love him, because he first loved us.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
Comes right back to love doesn't it?
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Its not me that undermines and abolishes but you and the other workers at the law. Just like the Pharisees before you.
Faith in Christ establishes His Law.
By the production of Spiritual Fruit in our lives.
If you are busy working at His Perfect Law then you aren't having faith in Him and Trusting in Him with your whole heart.
If we have faith in Him and Trust in Him and Abide in Him He produces these spiritual fruit.
Which of these fruit of the Spirit are offensive to God or the keeping of His Law?
Faith in Christ establishes His Law.
By the production of Spiritual Fruit in our lives.
If you are busy working at His Perfect Law then you aren't having faith in Him and Trusting in Him with your whole heart.
If we have faith in Him and Trust in Him and Abide in Him He produces these spiritual fruit.
Which of these fruit of the Spirit are offensive to God or the keeping of His Law?
If you think I am on the side that says they are no more you are wrong.
All of you workers at the law have not been taught the principle that was to be taught to you by the schoolmaster.
The schoolmaster will never be gone until every single one of the people who God has drawn have come to Him.
Even though you yourselves have not been taught the principle, you still uphold the schoolmaster. Then it just takes someone or something else to expound on what happens after the role of the schoolmaster has been fulfilled.
Only Christians who have come to Faith in Christ are no longer under the law. Because they have been made righteous by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Matthew 5:17-18
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
All of you workers at the law have not been taught the principle that was to be taught to you by the schoolmaster.
The schoolmaster will never be gone until every single one of the people who God has drawn have come to Him.
Even though you yourselves have not been taught the principle, you still uphold the schoolmaster. Then it just takes someone or something else to expound on what happens after the role of the schoolmaster has been fulfilled.
Only Christians who have come to Faith in Christ are no longer under the law. Because they have been made righteous by the Lord Jesus Christ.
Matthew 5:17-18
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
2nd Timothy 3:2-4, “...lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.”
This is a picture of people in the last days. This is a picture of people who go to churches without law. We have Christians who believe in the living by the law but calling the law they live by only the spirit not the law, who are teaching this to others.
Nothing of scripture is working to change the mind of these people, as you can see by this post. They use selected scriptures that they make say these things are right, and no scripture telling them differently helps, for they say Christ did away with any scripture that disagrees with their position.
They say we are not to listen to scripture that was about anything before Christ, one pointed out that there was plenty of instructions in the NT, why would we include anything written in the Old?
A very favorite is "we are not under law". It is a direct quote of scripture and they stand firm on their interpretation of that. They say that means that God didn't want us to listen to any law unless it was written after Christ, and they are firm about their interpretation. It is sort of a "don't bother me with the facts" stand. That takes care of all law. Any scripture that says anything different than how they interpret this is waved off as of no account.
They say all scripture is inspired by God, then they add their except this scripture and that scripture with anything God gave Moses as the first to be in the "except" place.
They say to get rid of anything the word says, just listen to the Holy Spirit. I was in the same room with a drunk once who spoke like that. As he wove and mumbled he told everyone that he just loved everyone. Then he started to cry. Giving any of scripture actual words, they say, is to be tossed aside for it is the spirit only to be listened to. They insist they are just as right about everything as that drunk I watched felt he was right.
They are quick to explain law to anyone who will listen. They pick out any purpose it has that seems to fall in with their purpose of getting rid of the entire idea. If you tell them of any good scripture tells of it they wave that aside, won't even listen. The idea that the law is Holy just doesn't fit in with their picture of law so they get rid of it.
And the crowning point is that the fruits of the spirit trumps and is the law.
Then!! they say that these things are so if you live through Christ. Anything Christ said about it is swept aside as of no count and they quote scripture to prove their point.
So the church is ushering in the last days.
This is a picture of people in the last days. This is a picture of people who go to churches without law. We have Christians who believe in the living by the law but calling the law they live by only the spirit not the law, who are teaching this to others.
Nothing of scripture is working to change the mind of these people, as you can see by this post. They use selected scriptures that they make say these things are right, and no scripture telling them differently helps, for they say Christ did away with any scripture that disagrees with their position.
They say we are not to listen to scripture that was about anything before Christ, one pointed out that there was plenty of instructions in the NT, why would we include anything written in the Old?
A very favorite is "we are not under law". It is a direct quote of scripture and they stand firm on their interpretation of that. They say that means that God didn't want us to listen to any law unless it was written after Christ, and they are firm about their interpretation. It is sort of a "don't bother me with the facts" stand. That takes care of all law. Any scripture that says anything different than how they interpret this is waved off as of no account.
They say all scripture is inspired by God, then they add their except this scripture and that scripture with anything God gave Moses as the first to be in the "except" place.
They say to get rid of anything the word says, just listen to the Holy Spirit. I was in the same room with a drunk once who spoke like that. As he wove and mumbled he told everyone that he just loved everyone. Then he started to cry. Giving any of scripture actual words, they say, is to be tossed aside for it is the spirit only to be listened to. They insist they are just as right about everything as that drunk I watched felt he was right.
They are quick to explain law to anyone who will listen. They pick out any purpose it has that seems to fall in with their purpose of getting rid of the entire idea. If you tell them of any good scripture tells of it they wave that aside, won't even listen. The idea that the law is Holy just doesn't fit in with their picture of law so they get rid of it.
And the crowning point is that the fruits of the spirit trumps and is the law.
Then!! they say that these things are so if you live through Christ. Anything Christ said about it is swept aside as of no count and they quote scripture to prove their point.
So the church is ushering in the last days.
I forgot one of the down with the law people use for their point, it is the word fulfill. They love it. It is what Christ did, they say. Once Christ came and fulfilled, then everything before Christ could be wiped out for anything fulfilled is over and done with. That idea is used over and over, and there is no fact about it that makes even a dent in their determination, not even what Christ Himself said about it. They, according to them, are the authorities on the subject and they are just listening to scripture, Christ said it was all over. Fulfilled so we can dump it all out.
What you fail to grasp is how we commune with God.
What is the whole point of the whole Bible, and pretty much every religion on Earth? Communion with God.
Men could not commune with God because they were afraid that because of their sin they would die instantly in His Presence.
The Law points out that sin over and over without fail and without mercy.
But the Lord Jesus Christ has come to fulfill that law so that we may come to Him. Communion with God through Christ.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Hebrews 4:16 [SUP] [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Otherwise all we have is empty religion and ritual. You can keep all of that. I have always wanted the real thing.
What is the whole point of the whole Bible, and pretty much every religion on Earth? Communion with God.
Men could not commune with God because they were afraid that because of their sin they would die instantly in His Presence.
The Law points out that sin over and over without fail and without mercy.
But the Lord Jesus Christ has come to fulfill that law so that we may come to Him. Communion with God through Christ.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Hebrews 4:16 [SUP] [/SUP]Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Otherwise all we have is empty religion and ritual. You can keep all of that. I have always wanted the real thing.
Really?
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Here Christ shows us that harboring ill will in one's heart toward another is to break the sixth Commandment. The Law has always been Spiritual (Rom 7:14). It has always been sin to hate, harbor ill will or think evil thoughts toward another...
Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
So how does this stack up against the sixth Commandment...
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Here is Lucifer sinning against God and being cast out of heaven. Along with this cam a name change from Light Bringer to Adversary.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Here Christ shows us that harboring ill will in one's heart toward another is to break the sixth Commandment. The Law has always been Spiritual (Rom 7:14). It has always been sin to hate, harbor ill will or think evil thoughts toward another...
Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
So how does this stack up against the sixth Commandment...
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Here is Lucifer sinning against God and being cast out of heaven. Along with this cam a name change from Light Bringer to Adversary.
Full is good, and one needs to have it filled to be full. Good description.
Psalm 23:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psalm 119:97 (KJV)
[SUP]97 [/SUP]O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Psalm 23:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Psalm 119:97 (KJV)
[SUP]97 [/SUP]O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
OK then, how do you feel about obeying the Law?
So pretty much what you are saying is that if I ignore a Law that is...
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
And don't bother to adjust my behavior according to it, I will produce wonderful fruit? By doing whatever I DECIDE is lawful, not what God says is lawful, I will be pleasing to Him because I will produce fruit form self will?
So pretty much what you are saying is that if I ignore a Law that is...
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
And don't bother to adjust my behavior according to it, I will produce wonderful fruit? By doing whatever I DECIDE is lawful, not what God says is lawful, I will be pleasing to Him because I will produce fruit form self will?
You mean this Word?
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Perhaps you can go through here verse by verse and show us how these verse actually condemn the Commandments.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Perhaps you can go through here verse by verse and show us how these verse actually condemn the Commandments.
Here you are changing many of scripture, and yet I, you say, am not grasping communing with God? Isn't understanding God a big part of communing? How can you hear someone talking when you deny much of what that someone is saying to you? Communing is also listening, without that you are not communing. God speaks through scripture, and we can't choose what scripture to listen to, or tell that person (God has being!!) who He is and what you want Him to say.