the Law before moses

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Apostol2013

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
39
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Many proffesing christians today say that there was no law before the torah but here is a scripture before to get us started , i ask not because i dont know but because there is a need to study this as a church that the whole body may be educated this scripture shows there was sin and how can sin be imputeth if there is no Law but here it is i believe God's original laws were more than just the ten sinaitic commanents that were introduced but thar God allways had a Law that He upholds that even in eden sin already existed because of satan but lets look
 
6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
 
Sin isn't just to do with laws.
Sin is falling short of the glory of God, anything we do that falls short of God's glory is sin.
 
Romans 1

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, [SUP]21 [/SUP]because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing to be wise, they became fools

[SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
 
For those who have never heard Jesus' voice, this has always applied per Jesus:

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy." Matt 5:7

followjja---follow just jesus always
 
"The Law" deals with more than sin. Every word that God speaks is law. That means that when He said to plant your garden and eat from it for six years and let the land rest the seventh year, it was law. (Exodus 23:10-11)

If there were no law before Moses, how did Noah know which animals were clean and unclean when he gathered them into the ark?
 
6 When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws.
 
Hashe said:
Sin isn't just to do with laws.
Sin is falling short of the glory of God, anything we do that falls short of God's glory is sin.
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OK, but not what Paul says...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

And then Satan is said to have broken the ninth and the sixth Commandments...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
 
d:

20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.
 
john832 said:
OK, but not what Paul says...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

And then Satan is said to have broken the ninth and the sixth Commandments...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
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ok. But cained murdered abel. How could he be charged with sin, if it was not yet written in stone.
 
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Word for Law here is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

Just because the Word, the Eternal, the One who became Jesus Christ, restated the Law for a group of people on Mt. Sinai, who had lost track of most all things in 200 years of slavery, does not mean it did not exist.

To say that the stating of the Law on Mt Sinai was thefirst time it ever existed is like saying the first time I ever heard of the Roman Empire was in the 1960's so therefore it just came into being. That is actually a pretty vain statement.
 
Apostol2013 said:
There God mentioned sin and acording to most christans there was no laws
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Those who claimed there was no laws probably see law in the letter and see letter not spiritual.
The bible says law is spiritual.
From my point of view it's the law that is written.
From their point of view it's something not written, concluded in love and anything not out of love is not spiritual.
So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance; truth has stumbled in the streets, honesty cannot enter. Truth is nowhere to be found, and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey.
 
Man was made in the image of God...His reflected nature/law is included in that image.
 
7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.

8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;

9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?
 
The law proceeds from heaven but God's spiritual law is a law with no flaw but the flaw is in human understanding
 
crossnote said:
Man was made in the image of God...His reflected nature/law is included in that image.
Click to expand...

Well, I would respectfully disagree here...

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Note here that the creation of man is a two part creation...

1) Let us make man in our image

2) after our likeness

Now how much and which part of that was completed at creation?

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Only part one. Part two is not completed until the resurrection...

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Read this verse carefully, it doesn't yet appear what we WILL BE like, future tense but when He appears (the second coming: His return) we will be like Him.

Part two of the creation, becoming like God, does not happen until the resurrection at His return.
 
john832 said:
Well, I would respectfully disagree here...
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Seems as if Paul would disagree with you..

Romans 1: [SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,



last I looked. Creation week was a few thousand years before the giving of the law. Seems that if the written law was required. they would have an excuse of being ignorant of Gods law.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Seems as if Paul would disagree with you..

Romans 1: [SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,



last I looked. Creation week was a few thousand years before the giving of the law. Seems that if the written law was required. they would have an excuse of being ignorant of Gods law.
Click to expand...

Again, that is a pretty arrogant statement. "I wasn't told of this so therefore it didn't exist."

Joseph knew adultery was sin...

Gen 39:7 And it came to pass after these things, that his master's wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; and she said, Lie with me.
Gen 39:8 But he refused, and said unto his master's wife, Behold, my master wotteth not what is with me in the house, and he hath committed all that he hath to my hand;
Gen 39:9 There is none greater in this house than I; neither hath he kept back any thing from me but thee, because thou art his wife: how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God?

Job knew that idolatry was sin...

Job 31:26 If I beheld the sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness;
Job 31:27 And my heart hath been secretly enticed, or my mouth hath kissed my hand:
Job 31:28 This also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge: for I should have denied the God that is above.

Job knew that taking God's name in vain was sin...

Job 1:5 So it was, when the days of feasting had run their course, that Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, "It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." Thus Job did regularly.

Murder was a sin...

Gen 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."
Gen 4:8 Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.
Gen 4:9 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" He said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"
Gen 4:10 And He said, "What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries out to Me from the ground.
Gen 4:11 So now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.

Stealing...

Gen 44:8 Look, we brought back to you from the land of Canaan the money which we found in the mouth of our sacks. How then could we steal silver or gold from your lord's house?
Gen 44:9 With whomever of your servants it is found, let him die, and we also will be my lord's slaves."

Actually, one can easily find all Ten Commandments prior to Mt. Sinai as sin. Just because this was not told to you, does not mean it did not happen.
 
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