Repentance Vs Eternal Security

[JGIG]

Awesome post! Good use of verses to make your point.

Thanks!

 

[dcontroversal]

You cannot, with integrity, believe both your first sentence and your last paragraph at the same time. In your first sentence you say that one sin, unrepented of, can keep one out of heaven (polite way to say they lose their salvation and go to eternal damnation).

In your last sentence, you misquote, out of context, a small part of Hebrews 6. Let's look at it in context:

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.​

Out of context, some use that passage to support conditional security, but in so doing, they doom the backslider, or in your case, the believer who sins even one time, to eternal damnation.

In context, Hebrews 6 (along with Hebrews chapters 4-10) tells how in the New Covenant, which is vastly superior to the Old, because one is so secure in Christ (because of His perfect Sacrifice and His Permanent, Perfect, High Priesthood) that it's impossible to repent again unto salvation. Repentance for the believer is done all the time - repent means to change one's mind and heart (G3341 - metanoia), and has to do with the renewing of the mind (Rom. 12:1-2) and the maturity of the believer.

But that is not what Hebrews 6 is talking about.

All sin was dealt with at the Cross. Sin can no longer separate the believer who has received the gift of forgiveness and the Righteousness of God in Christ from God (Rom. 5, 2 Cor. 5).


Read the following carefully:


It's impossible to bring the believer back to repentance (unto salvation, which, in context is what this passage is talking about - coming into the New Covenant), because even when the believer sins, because ALL of their sins were dealt with completely at the Cross, it is NOT NECESSARY, and therefore IMPOSSIBLE, for them to be BROUGHT BACK TO a place where they ALREADY ARE in Christ.

Why?

Because to do so would mean that Christ would have to provide more forgiveness.

Has God dealt with the sins of the world?
​

Yes.​

How many times did He deal with it?
​

Once.​

Have your sins been judged?
​

Yes. ​

Where were they judged?
​

At the Cross.​

What was the verdict?
​

Guilty.​

What was the punishment?
​

Death.​

Who took it?
​

Jesus.​

How much of it?
​

All of it.​

How much is left for you?
​

None.
​

(You can hear the above highlighted in purple in a teaching HERE. Another excellent teaching regarding Hebrews 6:4-6 can be found here: Hebrews 6:4-6 Can You Lose Your Salvation?)
​

​

Here's the thing:

A) You claim that unrepentant believers will go to hell, and must repent to salvage their salvation (there's a concept completely foreign to Scripture), and then

B) You quote, out of context, a Scripture that says that it's impossible for someone who's fallen away to repent.
​

To believe both of those things at the same time is doublemindedness and goes against the clear Truths of the Gospel.

-JGIG

Amen and I agree....

 

[cfultz3]

Question for you. How then do you deal with self murder? Didn't Jesus plainly say this

Matthew 12

31"Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32"Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Jesus is very clear that ANY SIN AND BLASPHEMY SHALL BE FORGIVEN EXCEPT blasphemy against the Spirit. Now self murder is NOT blasphemy against the Spirit,since it is NOT that it shall be forgiven. So what is at the heart of whether it is forgiven or not? If it not forgiven that person then it MUST be because of unbelief,if one believes then one would be forgiven of it.

Thats right, any sin will be forgiven man. But we learn from other scriptures that the sin must be repented of and we must confess our sins (I John 1:9-10).in order to be forgiven (Luke 13:3). Unfortunately, when you commit the sin of murder, it is too late to repent.
G

Here we have two Scriptural concepts which seem to contradict themselves.

One concept says that all sins will be forgiven except the blasphemy against the Spirit.

The other says that if we were to confess our sins, He will forgive them and unless we repent, we shall perish.​

The question is: how is sin forgiven?

Taken what is said above, it would seem that in order to be forgiven of any sin or blasphemy except against the Spirit, one would need to acknowledge (agree, confess) that what they are permitting is a sin and then He will forgive. But, if we do not repent (change our minds) about that sin, we will perish.

If one does not repent, then it would seem that they are not forgiven, seeing that the one who does not repent will perish.​

The question remains: how can the dead confess and repent of his murdering act, seeing that once we are dead, it is to late to confess and repent (Salvation being offered only to the living)?

 

[cfultz3]

Just to add,

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.​

 

[SarahM777]

Here we have two Scriptural concepts which seem to contradict themselves.

One concept says that all sins will be forgiven except the blasphemy against the Spirit.

The other says that if we were to confess our sins, He will forgive them and unless we repent, we shall perish.​

The question is: how is sin forgiven?

Taken what is said above, it would seem that in order to be forgiven of any sin or blasphemy except against the Spirit, one would need to acknowledge (agree, confess) that what they are permitting is a sin and then He will forgive. But, if we do not repent (change our minds) about that sin, we will perish.

If one does not repent, then it would seem that they are not forgiven, seeing that the one who does not repent will perish.​

The question remains: how can the dead confess and repent of his murdering act, seeing that once we are dead, it is to late to confess and repent (Salvation being offered only to the living)?

AHHH But that leaves out one thing and how are we JUSTIFIED? How are we declared righteous?

 

[cfultz3]

AHHH But that leaves out one thing and how are we JUSTIFIED? How are we declared righteous?

How are we justified (found not guilty and not worthy of death)? We are justified from that adverse sentencing of the Law by faith in the Christ. It is also presented in Scripture that we must acknowledge our sin, repent of that sin. If these things be true, then they also must be taken into consideration when presented, seeing that even the Hebrews had to repent of their sins before they were forgiven.

How are we declared righteous (right standing before God)? By faith in the Christ. As our Lord (Master), we must obey what Jesus says and that is, repent, or else, perish, just as told us in the Old Testament.

Since you both presented Truths from Scripture, and they seem to be contradictive, then we, as seekers of Truth, out of necessity, must harmonize what is presented.

Although speaking to the Hebrews, God, nevertheless, meant this to all who would return to Him while He could yet be found:

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.​

 

[SarahM777]

How are we justified (found not guilty and not worthy of death)? We are justified from that adverse sentencing of the Law by faith in the Christ. It is also presented in Scripture that we must acknowledge our sin, repent of that sin. If these things be true, then they also must be taken into consideration when presented, seeing that even the Hebrews had to repent of their sins before they were forgiven.

How are we declared righteous (right standing before God)? By faith in the Christ. As our Lord (Master), we must obey what Jesus says and that is, repent, or else, perish, just as told us in the Old Testament.

Since you both presented Truths from Scripture, and they seem to be contradictive, then we, as seekers of Truth, out of necessity, must harmonize what is presented.

Although speaking to the Hebrews, God, nevertheless, meant this to all who would return to Him while He could yet be found:

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.​

So then HOW does one reconcile the seeming paradox since God CAN NOT lie and Jesus plainly said there is only one sin that will NOT be forgiven of men and that one needs to repent to be forgiven? Both are true so what it is that God is trying to get through to us? If that person is NOT forgiven of that sin then that makes Jesus a liar and on the other side if the person does NOT repent and is saved it makes God out to be a liar. So how are they reconciled so that both are no longer in conflict? What is at the heart of what God is telling us? Remember God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are higher then our thoughts.

 

[Daley]

In Luke 23:34 when Jesus was on the cross he prayed, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." Here was a request made by Jesus. Did the Father honor that request, or did Jesus' prayer actually go unanswered? Now, if you think the Father forgave them, ask yourself this: did they repent before they were forgiven? Just thought that was an interesting question to put in the mix.

 

[cfultz3]

So then HOW does one reconcile the seeming paradox since God CAN NOT lie and Jesus plainly said there is only one sin that will NOT be forgiven of men and that one needs to repent to be forgiven? Both are true so what it is that God is trying to get through to us? If that person is NOT forgiven of that sin then that makes Jesus a liar and on the other side if the person does NOT repent and is saved it makes God out to be a liar. So how are they reconciled so that both are no longer in conflict? What is at the heart of what God is telling us? Remember God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are higher then our thoughts.

Will/ will not....implies it has yet to be forgiven or not forgiven.

How are sins forgiven? Confess and repent to the Lord (Jesus) and He WILL forgive. However, that same Lord also said that if one does not repent (but continues in that sin), they shall perish. As our Lord taught us in prayer, 'forgive me my sins', and He will be merciful and WILL forgive.

And Jesus said all sins and blasphemies except against the Spirit will be forgiven. So, confess and repent and Jesus will be found to be true to His words and will forgive you.

If one does not repent, then Jesus Himself said, 'or perish'. And God will be found to be true to His words and will pardon the one who returns (repents) to Him.

Just as the Hebrews were not permitted to walk contrary to the Voice of the Lord (who we know as Jesus), neither are we. And as the LORD, in essence, said to them, 'forsake your ways and return to me and I will have mercy and will pardon', so says He as Jesus, 'repent or perish'.

 

[SarahM777]

Will/ will not....implies it has yet to be forgiven or not forgiven.

How are sins forgiven? Confess and repent to the Lord (Jesus) and He WILL forgive. However, that same Lord also said that if one does not repent (but continues in that sin), they shall perish. As our Lord taught us in prayer, 'forgive me my sins', and He will be merciful and WILL forgive.

And Jesus said all sins and blasphemies except against the Spirit will be forgiven. So, confess and repent and Jesus will be found to be true to His words and will forgive you.

If one does not repent, then Jesus Himself said, 'or perish'. And God will be found to be true to His words and will pardon the one who returns (repents) to Him.

Just as the Hebrews were not permitted to walk contrary to the Voice of the Lord (who we know as Jesus), neither are we. And as the LORD, in essence, said to them, 'forsake your ways and return to me and I will have mercy and will pardon', so says He as Jesus, 'repent or perish'.

So in essence you are saying that self murder CAN NOT and will not be forgiven?

 

[JGIG]

Here we have two Scriptural concepts which seem to contradict themselves.

One concept says that all sins will be forgiven except the blasphemy against the Spirit.

The other says that if we were to confess our sins, He will forgive them and unless we repent, we shall perish.​

The question is: how is sin forgiven?

Taken what is said above, it would seem that in order to be forgiven of any sin or blasphemy except against the Spirit, one would need to acknowledge (agree, confess) that what they are permitting is a sin and then He will forgive. But, if we do not repent (change our minds) about that sin, we will perish.

If one does not repent, then it would seem that they are not forgiven, seeing that the one who does not repent will perish.​

The question remains: how can the dead confess and repent of his murdering act, seeing that once we are dead, it is to late to confess and repent (Salvation being offered only to the living)?

No, the question is HOW MUCH sin is forgiven? Some or all?

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
​

and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (from 1 Jn. 1)​

And how many sins does God hold against us?

18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. ​

-JGIG

 

[MsLimpet]

Repent metanoeō :

Thayer's Lexicon:

--To change one's mind,

--Used esp. of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent on obtaining God's pardon

--To change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

--Conduct worthy of a heart change and abhorring sin

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...gs=G3340&t=KJV


Matthew 3:8 "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"

Acts 26:20 "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."

Luke 13:3,5 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".



Can a Christian commit a sin such as theft, keep the stolen property yet maintain his salvation? Or must he do "works meet for repentance" by making reparation by returning the stolen property to its rightful owner or else be lost?

If you are repenting, you must repent which includes a work of returning the stolen item. Works without repentance is in vain.
James 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Faith, apart from works, is faith only. Such a faith is "barren," (argen, unproductive), because it is dead. That which is dead is incapable of producing; and is thus barren. Earlier, and in much detail, James shows that faith, without works, is dead; here, he indicates that it is without the outward evidence of life (productivity) which demonstrates that life exists. (James 2:17, 20.)
The kind of faith described here—faith apart from works,—is the kind which the denominational world urges is that which saves.

 

[cfultz3]

In Luke 23:34 when Jesus was on the cross he prayed, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." Here was a request made by Jesus. Did the Father honor that request, or did Jesus' prayer actually go unanswered? Now, if you think the Father forgave them, ask yourself this: did they repent before they were forgiven? Just thought that was an interesting question to put in the mix.

When one does not hold an offense against someone, then that which has been pardoned will not be held against that one. Jesus forgave them for killing Him and will not hold it against them (us), whether or not they (we) repented and walked a different path.

It also says that we need to confess and repent to be forgiven of a sin and it also says that if we forgive someone then it is forgiven by Him also. In harmonizing this, it seems that sins can be forgiven if one is pardoned by the one who was offended (forgive me my sins as I forgive those of others), or if we do works of repentance (acts to show we are remorse and seek forgiveness).

 

[kennethcadwell]

The scriptures show that once you are saved if then sin you will feel convicted, so you must repent to be forgiven of that sin. If you do not then you are not truly sorry for what you did. To put it in human terms when any of us were a kid how many times did you go to your parents and say you were sorry just to get out of your punishment even though you were not really sorry. The same goes for sin, you must repent and I mean truly repent of your sin to be forgiven cause the difference between your human parents and your Heavenly Father is He knows where your heart truly is.

 

[cfultz3]

No, the question is HOW MUCH sin is forgiven? Some or all?

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins​

and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (from 1 Jn. 1)​

And how many sins does God hold against us?

18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.​

-JGIG

So then, if we confess (acknowledge) our sins and repent (change our minds) from it, then He is faithful and just to forgive us and cleans us from every unrighteousness...THAT we confess and repent of. And He says also, 'repent or perish'.

Jesus is the same Lord who said:

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.​

One must repent (return) to the Lord and then He will have mercy and give a pardon, seeing that it was even a requirement of the Hebrews to turn from their sins and return to the Lord before He would be their God again.

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Glad you brought up 2Cor 5:18-19. It is true that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing (counting, taking into account, making account of) their trespasses to them, seeing that Jesus said, 'God sent not His Son into the world to judge....'. True, Christ came to reconcile and not judge when He came into this world.

However, this still stands:

One concept says that all sins will be forgiven except the blasphemy against the Spirit.

The other says that if we were to confess our sins, He will forgive them and unless we repent, we shall perish.​

 

[kennethcadwell]

For a believer all sins are forgiven. Scholars have attributed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as non-belief. The reason is the scripture where Jesus says, " him who confesses me before man, I will confess him before God, he that denies me before men, I will deny him before God

 

[PeaceAF]

Hello All, I have repent
I'm so hurt I can't cry
I have to make my self cry to release the deeper pain or else the pain build up stays in me! Please all pray for me!

 

[cfultz3]

Hello All, I have repent
I'm so hurt I can't cry
I have to make my self cry to release the deeper pain or else the pain build up stays in me! Please all pray for me!

You have my prayer. Know this, you have repented and now have His forgiveness. Dwell on this forgiveness and see joy and not sadness.

 

[cfultz3]

So in essence you are saying that self murder CAN NOT and will not be forgiven?

How can the dead repent?

 

[kennethcadwell]

How can the dead repent?

The way I look at it is that in the old and new testament it says those who purposely sin will not be forgiven. And by new studies that have come out on studying the brain, those that commit suicide are compared to those who suffer from other mental illnesses and are not in their right mind and thinking. So it will not be accounted on them.