Is there such a thing as an atheist?

[nl]

The Apostle's Creed is an early resolution of the Christian church. I memorized it when I was younger and part of the Roman church. I still endorse it today when I consider myself to be part of the catholic or universal church although not part of the Roman church.

Reference Note: Despite its name, the Apostle's Creed does not have an apostolic origin but dates from the eighth century, although portions of it date from the third and fourth centuries

Apostles' Creed

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
11. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

 

[Cycel]

Atheists claim to disbelieve in God yet they hang out at Christian venues all the time. Its like a hobby for them.

Yup.

If politics meant nothing to you then you would not hang out in political forums, right?
If they really disbelieved in God they would not care to post here or debate with Christians.

Then Republicans only debate Democrats because they are actually really Democrats themselves?

Oh, and anti-abortionists only debate abortionists because they themselves are really abortionists at heart?

Sorry Dan, but I don't believe this argument you propose works too well; and by the way, you will also find Christians hanging out at atheist sites because they want to argue with atheists. They are not visiting those forums because they are atheists at heart.

 

[Cycel]

Sorry that should have read 'Do Not Deny'. I really should get a proof reader on my posts

LOL! I almost posted a rebuttal to that line. That was the one point of yours I disagreed with. Glad I waited.

 

[Timeline]

Sorry for the repost but I ran out of time to edit my original post:

The question is invalid but a philosophical debate is not an attack. It is merely an invitation to question the things around you and confirm your confidence in the topic. Debate is a democratic process and any system which puts itself beyond debate is acting as an intellectual, social and spiritual dictatorship. Secondly, to accuse a group of people who do not believe in a mythological deity of being followers of another is a bit silly! Finally, the topic of why we are on here has come up many times before.

I am not trying to be ugly, but I think that what I said still stands. You seem to be out to be convinced (or are searching) for something. I would even consider being as bold as to say you probably have a pretty good idea that God is real. But if you are searching you are not an atheist. An Atheist is certain that there is not a God. And I cannot understand why someone who "knows" that there is not a God would waste any time at all trying to convince me otherwise. I do not like cooked spinach, but I am not going to waste any time trying to convince you not to like it.

 

[Percepi]

Atheists claim to disbelieve in God yet they hang out at Christian venues all the time. Its like a hobby for them.

If politics meant nothing to you then you would not hang out in political forums, right?
If they really disbelieved in God they would not care to post here or debate with Christians.

So if a Christian devotes their time protesting abortion clinics, then that means they're actually pro-choice?

There are many reasons why an atheist might hang around Christian forums. Instead of assuming they believe in God, why don't you listen to them? If you don't understand why they're here, why don't you ask them?

An atheist that actively attacks Christians seems pretty close to a satanist. Why would care if we are wasting our time? What does it matter to an atheist if I waste my time? If you are not a satanist, then you are trying to find someone to convince you of something.

An atheist that attacks Christians seems pretty close to a Satanist? The only similarity between the two is that many people from both groups tend to be outspoken against religion. That's one, single, similarity. And, more importantly, you don't have to speak out against religion to be an atheist.

That's like saying, "Christians who light candles are an awful lot like Satanists."

Finding a single similarity between a group doesn't make them one and the same. This is a common fallacy I run into around these forums and it's quite degrading.

 

[JesusLives]

Almighty God is a God of Love but also a God of Justice. Excellence of character requires that He be full of both love and justice.

God loves righteousness and hates iniquity (sin, wickedness, etc.). See Psalm 45:7, Hebrews 1:9. Almighty God has many excellent attributes and love is one but justice is another. It is good to communicate the whole story and all the attributes of God.

I look at it more from a standpoint of the individual who chooses not to believe and has said no to God and the gift of salvation offered through Jesus... thinking from their point of view they would hate it in heaven if they did not want to get to know God here on earth they would be miserable in His presence in heaven therefore it is more of a merciful act to do away with sin, evil and wickedness because God and evil don't exist in the same place. It is not a God who is vengeful just waiting for you to mess up so He can Zap you out of existence.

 

[JesusLives]

We all will "live" forever. Some in Heaven and some in hell.

But God says the wages of sin are death not eternal life in hell.

 

[JesusLives]

Atheists claim to disbelieve in God yet they hang out at Christian venues all the time. Its like a hobby for them.

If politics meant nothing to you then you would not hang out in political forums, right?
If they really disbelieved in God they would not care to post here or debate with Christians.

Why try and chase them off? Were there is life there is hope.

 

[deepthought]

I am not trying to be ugly, but I think that what I said still stands. You seem to be out to be convinced (or are searching) for something. I would even consider being as bold as to say you probably have a pretty good idea that God is real. But if you are searching you are not an atheist. An Atheist is certain that there is not a God. And I cannot understand why someone who "knows" that there is not a God would waste any time at all trying to convince me otherwise. I do not like cooked spinach, but I am not going to waste any time trying to convince you not to like it.

I'm sorry but you seemed to have missed my point. Firstly, when it comes to issues like this, atheists are not certain of anything which is unknown. They merely have a strong opinion that based upon their personal experiences and evidence available, there are no supernatural intelligent forces acting upon or lives or world. We can only be certain about not being certain

If I had an opinion and refused to have my opinion swayed by outside forces, then I could never hold confidence that what I believed to be true would withstand rational argument or debate. I could have a similar debate on a humanist forum, but I have found that the only theists who frequent those boards tend to be the more extremist variety who prefer to do 'drive-by preachings' as opposed to rational debate. In that way, I am no more trying to convert you than I am myself and every other atheist who frequents this board. Looking at it from your view, why would we as a intelligently designed species be given somthing as remarkable as free will and logical minds if it were not expected that we would use them?

 

[Percepi]

I look at it more from a standpoint of the individual who chooses not to believe and has said no to God and the gift of salvation offered through Jesus... thinking from their point of view they would hate it in heaven if they did not want to get to know God here on earth they would be miserable in His presence in heaven therefore it is more of a merciful act to do away with sin, evil and wickedness because God and evil don't exist in the same place. It is not a God who is vengeful just waiting for you to mess up so He can Zap you out of existence.

Numerous people have explained to you how they came to be atheists. I feel like you didn't listen to them. I feel like you didn't listen to me.

Time and time again, how often must we say it? We don't say "no" to God, we don't believe in God. You don't say "no" to Muhammad, because you don't believe in Muhammad. Sure, you might reject the notion of Muhammad, but you don't reject Muhammad himself because he's a fictional character.

Furthermore, you assume atheists wouldn't be happy in the presence of God. This is based off the idea that atheists hate God - again, atheism is a lack of belief. If atheists discovered there is a God - then many of them would embrace him. Sure, some atheists might not like God, but to assume all atheists would be that way is just silly.

It's also funny you said atheists would be miserable in God's presence, justifying why they are sent to hell. Isn't hell supposed to be a miserable place of eternal torture? God could easily create a place for atheists who don't want to be with him or in heaven that isn't a place of eternal pain and torture. And before you say he can't, remember he's God - he can.

 

[Timeline]

I'm sorry but you seemed to have missed my point. Firstly, when it comes to issues like this, atheists are not certain of anything which is unknown. They merely have a strong opinion that based upon their personal experiences and evidence available, there are no supernatural intelligent forces acting upon or lives or world. We can only be certain about not being certain

If I had an opinion and refused to have my opinion swayed by outside forces, then I could never hold confidence that what I believed to be true would withstand rational argument or debate. I could have a similar debate on a humanist forum, but I have found that the only theists who frequent those boards tend to be the more extremist variety who prefer to do 'drive-by preachings' as opposed to rational debate. In that way, I am no more trying to convert you than I am myself and every other atheist who frequents this board. Looking at it from your view, why would we as a intelligently designed species be given somthing as remarkable as free will and logical minds if it were not expected that we would use them?

You said "given something as remarkable as free will and logical minds." Give into what you already know. God loves you and you will fit right in with all of the other stubborn Christians.

 

[Timeline]

You said "given something as remarkable as free will and logical minds." Give into what you already know. God loves you and you will fit right in with all of the other stubborn Christians.

I am included in the stubborn Christians, in case that wasn't understood.

 

[deepthought]

You said "given something as remarkable as free will and logical minds." Give into what you already know. God loves you and you will fit right in with all of the other stubborn Christians.

Sorry I was trying to explain it from the perspective of a theist. I assure you, I hold no opinion that we were 'given' any of our attributes beyond genetics and environmental influence. Though in school my teachers did use the word 'Stubborn' To describe the younger me all those years ago. I'm happy with that title

 

[JesusLives]

How, exactly, do you imagine this will happen? My great grandmother, the Jehovah's Witness, shared this same belief and my aunt remembered her father teasing his mother about this. Once, at the supper table, he suggested Jesus was waiting till everyone owned their own TV before returning. Her indignant reply was that Jesus wouldn't need televisions for everyone to see his return. Was she right? How will Jesus make himself known to all the world?

Of course I know how both of you came to this belief, for it is written, “Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him, and among them those who pierced him; and all peoples of the world shall lament in remorse. So it shall be. Amen” (Rev. 1:7 NEB).

I recognize that most versions translate ‘peoples’ as ‘tribes’. So possibly tribes is closer to the original meaning, though now-a-days there are not so many tribes anymore. I would point out that the author of Revelation includes ‘those who pierced him’ among future witnesses of his return. I suspect this may mean those who drove in the nails as well as he who thrust his spear in Christ’s side. I believe this shows the author expected Christ would return during the lifetime of those who placed him on the cross, unless you prefer to demonstrate otherwise?

I would ask you to explain how, “Every eye shall see him, and among them those who pierced him” if this event occurs two thousand years after their deaths?

The God I believe in - there is nothing impossible for Him to do. He brought back Lazarus from the dead and I believe He will cause those who killed Him to rise from the dead to view His triumphant return.

Revelation 6:14 The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place. 15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?"

The bible tells us the sky will roll back like a scroll, I know there will also be a great earthquake - who knows if the earth will rip apart and lay out flat? So that every eye will see Him? I don't know how God plans to do this but if He said Every Eye Will See Him I believe it.

The bible also says when Jesus will return - No it does not give the date and the hour, but it says [h=3]Matthew 24:14[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So once everyone has heard the gospel and had an opportunity to make a decision then the end will come and Jesus will return.

 

[Timeline]

I'm sorry but you seemed to have missed my point. Firstly, when it comes to issues like this, atheists are not certain of anything which is unknown. They merely have a strong opinion that based upon their personal experiences and evidence available, there are no supernatural intelligent forces acting upon or lives or world. We can only be certain about not being certain

If I had an opinion and refused to have my opinion swayed by outside forces, then I could never hold confidence that what I believed to be true would withstand rational argument or debate. I could have a similar debate on a humanist forum, but I have found that the only theists who frequent those boards tend to be the more extremist variety who prefer to do 'drive-by preachings' as opposed to rational debate. In that way, I am no more trying to convert you than I am myself and every other atheist who frequents this board. Looking at it from your view, why would we as a intelligently designed species be given somthing as remarkable as free will and logical minds if it were not expected that we would use them?

I would like to say that evolution is not an acceptable theory, even if I was not a Christian. You know that there would be billions of fossils showing the stages of evolution, if it were real. Not only that, but one would need to explain how we have many of the "beginning" species and the "currently last evolved" species, but do not have allof the variations still alive today.

 

[JesusLives]

You have to already believe there's a God to believe John 3:16 to be true.

And the fact remains that whether you choose to believe there is a God or not He still loved you enough to do what was written in John 3:16 & 17 just for you had you been the only sinner on the earth. God is faithful towards us even when we are not faithful to Him.

 

[Cycel]

[*]Where did we come from?
[*]Where are we going?
[/LIST]


The answers are important, particularly if we will live forever.

But if we ain't going to live forever then we have wasted our lives wondering about 'what ifs, whens and whys'

Why is it a waste of time to wonder about our origins? Richard Dawkins, for example, has devoted his lifetime to this question, as has every evolutionary scientist. The only people I know who don't wonder about this question are those who have no interest in science. I am deeply interested.

NL's last point, 'Where are we going?' is, as he suggests, of little concern to most atheists. Most of us think the question is resolved, but some atheists are inclined, nonetheless, to think about an afterlife. They don't buy into notions of heaven or hell, and they don't think rewards and punishments come into play, but they are not all prepared to abandon completely prospects of continued existence after death.

 

[JesusLives]

Numerous people have explained to you how they came to be atheists. I feel like you didn't listen to them. I feel like you didn't listen to me.

Time and time again, how often must we say it? We don't say "no" to God, we don't believe in God. You don't say "no" to Muhammad, because you don't believe in Muhammad. Sure, you might reject the notion of Muhammad, but you don't reject Muhammad himself because he's a fictional character.

Furthermore, you assume atheists wouldn't be happy in the presence of God. This is based off the idea that atheists hate God - again, atheism is a lack of belief. If atheists discovered there is a God - then many of them would embrace him. Sure, some atheists might not like God, but to assume all atheists would be that way is just silly.

It's also funny you said atheists would be miserable in God's presence, justifying why they are sent to hell. Isn't hell supposed to be a miserable place of eternal torture? God could easily create a place for atheists who don't want to be with him or in heaven that isn't a place of eternal pain and torture. And before you say he can't, remember he's God - he can.

Last night I did view the Julia Sweeny video - 2 hours long time to commit. So I am trying to make headway on your response to my blog and I do understand that an atheist does not believe there is a God. But it is like sitting on a fence and a big truck is coming right at you. One must decide if they will hop off the fence to not get hit or sit there and see what happens. So by not making a choice you really are.

I like hanging out on this thread with you guys sometimes you are nicer to me than some of the Christians and I am sad to have to say that not the hanging with you guys, but the way the Christians treat people they don't understand. I wish more of us Christians would really be more like Jesus as He knew how to reach people on their level. That is what I strive for myself.

 

[Timeline]

So if a Christian devotes their time protesting abortion clinics, then that means they're actually pro-choice?

There are many reasons why an atheist might hang around Christian forums. Instead of assuming they believe in God, why don't you listen to them? If you don't understand why they're here, why don't you ask them?



An atheist that attacks Christians seems pretty close to a Satanist? The only similarity between the two is that many people from both groups tend to be outspoken against religion. That's one, single, similarity. And, more importantly, you don't have to speak out against religion to be an atheist.

That's like saying, "Christians who light candles are an awful lot like Satanists."

Finding a single similarity between a group doesn't make them one and the same. This is a common fallacy I run into around these forums and it's quite degrading.

Apples and Oranges. What is your goal? A Christian that devotes their time to protesting abortions is trying to stop the murder of babies, not support it. I guess my question is what is your pay off? Are you trying gather information or just make people upset. If a Christian tries to convert an Atheist, it makes sense. But I guess I don't understand why an Atheist would want to convert a Christian. Are you trying to save us time? More people to hang out with? Get backing on a ridiculous ideas like big bang and evolution?

 

[Cycel]

And the fact remains that whether you choose to believe there is a God or not He still loved you enough to do what was written in John 3:16 & 17 just for you had you been the only sinner on the earth. God is faithful towards us even when we are not faithful to Him.

However, as Percepi points out, the promise is irrelevant to the nonbeliever. “It was not to judge the world that God sent his Son into the world, but that through him the world might be saved” (John 3:17 NEB). How does this help members of remote Amazonian tribes who, to this day, have not heard of Christ? Will they not be saved? Might it be that when John wrote his text he was not aware that large parts of the world were too remote to receive the message?