Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[SeaBass]

The receiving grace through faith produces works, that's genuine faith.

Not, faith and works produce grace.

Can a faith that NEVER produces any work save?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

If you have to do works to receive salvation, then how are the people that make death bed confessions saved?

 

[SeaBass]

This is false and misleading doctrine. It is the way that seems right to man but the end thereof is destruction.

Salvation cannot be earned nor can it be kept by mans own merits.

Grace excludes any possible contribution by man. God has done it all and done it with perfection that man cannot even imagine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Eph 2:10; Rev 2:10 are not false doctrines.


And you post that false strawman that SeaBass is saying salvation can be earned.


You post "Grace excludes any possible contribution by man."

Naaman was healed by grace. Did God's grace EXCLUDE or INCLUDE Naaman's obedient work in going and dipping in the river?

 

[SeaBass]

You are giving your opinion on "it is finished". Please note the Christ did not say "I am finished". It is the height of hypocrisy to say that man could have any part in the restoration of our souls to God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Christ did not say MAN's work is finished....Heb 5:9 Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that OBEY HIM.

 

[BenFTW]

Still waiting SeaBass...

Has anyone even considered how arbitrary SeaBass' works based salvation is? Let me explain something to you, and also ask SeaBass something.

If someone accepts Christ and one opportunity(a good work) presents itself and the person does it, is he saved(and dies after)? SeaBass, you will say, "Yes." Right?

Now, if the same person has the opportunity presented to do a good work and doesn't do it, and dies, is he saved? SeaBass, you will answer, "No." That is, if you hold true to your works salvation. If you say, "Yes." then works are arbitrary. If you say, "No" that means that God requires perfection after one is saved (Why did Christ come again?).

Now, lets push this example even further. Say "Joe" accepts the Lord and has one year to live. Through out the year he is presented two opportunities to do good works. He does the first but doesn't do the second work. Is he saved, after the year is up and he dies? If you answer "Yes" then everyone is saved, because we will all unintentionally do a good work, out of who we are and the fruits of the Spirit. If you say, "No, he is not saved" then what you are saying is, again, that God requires perfection. To which I reply, "Why was Jesus sent again?" Oh, and if you say, "Yes" you've also shown that works are arbitrary because he did one and didn't do one.

PS: Is there a ratio of good works to missed good works to be saved? 50/50? 100% good works, with no missed opportunities? Who can do that?

 

[SeaBass]

You are basically asking, 'Can a Christian walk contrary to the leading of the Spirit and still be saved (walking on the narrow path)?' ..... No, they cannot have two masters at the same time.

The refute to that is that if they are being led by the Spirit then they would want to hearken to the Spirit....However, if they are being led by the Spirit, then they are still free willed beings having a choice to either follow or not. And hence, the warning in Hebrews to watch over each other so that a heart of stubbornness would not be found in us.

More simply: Can a man NEVER DO ANY WORK AT ALL in his ENTIRE LIFE and yet still be saved?

Even if I ASSUME for a moment a man has to do NO WORKS to OBTAIN salvation, have you noticed how the faith only proponents are trying to KEEp HIM saved WITHOUT doing any works? Without helping his fellow Christian, without walking n the light, with any good works, Eph 2:10?

 

[BenFTW]

More simply: Can a man NEVER DO ANY WORK AT ALL in his ENTIRE LIFE and yet still be saved?

Even if I ASSUME for a moment a man has to do NO WORKS to OBTAIN salvation, have you noticed how the faith only proponents are trying to KEEp HIM saved WITHOUT doing any works? Without helping his fellow Christian, without walking n the light, with any good works, Eph 2:10?

Yes. Those incapable of doing good works due to specific situations, such as but not limited to, immediate death upon acceptance of Christ, death within a short period of time upon acceptance of Christ, a person in a coma, someone lost at sea, someone lost on a deserted island, someone bedridden(with no visitors), and someone confessing Christ while being put to death(such as a man on a cross, being stoned to death, free falling from an airplane, etc). As you can see, this list isn't exhaustive, but it shows a variety of scenarios in which a man is saved without works. Therefore refuting any such argument of works based salvation, or maintenance based salvation(through works).

/end of topic

PS: If there is some spiritual rule/law that excludes these people from having to work(to be saved), then it is in the best interest of ALL humanity to seek to be in such scenarios. These scenarios include... the list above.

 

[cfultz3]

If you have to do works to receive salvation, then how are the people that make death bed confessions saved?

By that active verb of 'to believe'.

 

[Spokenpassage]

Can a faith that NEVER produces any work save?

Then you would have to question if they are truly saved. Grace comes through faith alone, when the believer receives both then works follow after. In no way does salvation wait for works, rather salvation produces works. If you have "faith" and live the same old lifestyle, then it wasn't really a faith but possibly a mere belief. One may merely convert, but another is born again. But one can truly have faith in Christ without works and be eternally saved. Eternal security is not a product of works at all.

 

[cfultz3]

More simply: Can a man NEVER DO ANY WORK AT ALL in his ENTIRE LIFE and yet still be saved?

It would seem he would need to hearken to the Spirit's guidance or fall in the 'wilderness'.

Even if I ASSUME for a moment a man has to do NO WORKS to OBTAIN salvation, have you noticed how [edited: some] are trying to KEEp HIM saved WITHOUT doing any works? Without helping his fellow Christian, without walking n the light, with any good works, Eph 2:10?

'to believe/trust' is an active verb.
'to hearken' is an active verb.

I will, therefore, put my trust in the LORD and hearken to His Voice. And God says that the one who trusts Him shall not be made ashamed.

Indeed, faith alone saves, but without works done in conjunction with the Spirit (hearkening: hear and obey), then that faith is nothing more than a falsehood.

We are certainly free to obey or not to obey and it was by disobedience the Hebrews fell. It also says that it is by faith, choosing to trust the Voice of the Lord and by which, heed Him on His path, that we do enter into His rest. Faith without that heeding is a dead faith indeed.

 

[BenFTW]

By that active verb of 'to believe'.

What part of "no boasting" don't you understand? Can a man say, "Whoo hoo! I am so smart! I believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you didn't! My great wisdom, logic and reasoning capabilities lead me to believe!"? Or was it the Holy Spirit who convicted you of sin, righteousness, and judgement? Was it you or the Holy Spirit that lead you to Christ?

Someone can believe that water quenches thirst but if they don't drink it they will surely die. So, what action or "work" is there in believing (as an active verb)? Surely it is not a work to believe, unless one is forcing oneself to believe in something they do not believe to be true. The Christian "believe" means to "trust in the finished work of Christ." It is to cease from what you're working at(which you can never attain) and be in His rest.

Hebrews 4:9-10

King James Version (KJV)
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


Even if one concludes it is a work, they are saying that salvation is based upon works, and not faith which is contrary to the Word of God. If its a work, it isn't one a believer does, but one the Lord does on the inside of you.

[TABLE="width: 523"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519, align: center"]Then said they unto Him, "What work shall we do, that we[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519, align: center"]might work the works of God?" And Jesus answered them,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519, align: center"]"This is the work of God: That you believe on Him whom He[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519, align: center"]has sent." (John 6:27-29)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

As it says on some site I am citing:[TABLE="width: 523"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]He, Himself, was to finish all the work of[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]God. He would not ascend to heaven leaving any of us to finish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]it. So when the people asked Him, "What work shall we do, that[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]we might work the works of God," He could not tell them[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]anything to DO. He could only tell them what to believe: They[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]needed to believe and rest in HIS finished work.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]So what does that leave me to do? Just what Jesus said:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]Believe. My "work" is to believe and rest in HIS finished work.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]How simple a thought. So simple we miss it. I am not to trust[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]in my works, but in HIS finished work. I am not to try to "do for[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]God," but to rest in what He has done. I am not to try to "win the[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]victory," but am to rest and stand in HIS completed victory. This[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]is the gospel of grace[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

He says his "work" is to believe, and yet it is God's work the verse says. A doctor can incite the placebo effect by telling a patient that a pill (that is just sugar) will help lower their cholesterol and the person trusts in the doctor. They take the pill and their cholesterol lowers. The pill actually cant do that, its just sugar. I think its just silly to argue that "believing" is our work, to argue a works based salvation. Its annoying to be quite honest. I will also add, no one can say "Jesus is Lord' unless by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:3

King James Version (KJV)

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost



Heres another point.

Romans 11:6


6 oBut if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

You can't say your belief is a work in the sense of works[based salvation], because it would go contrary to this verse. Any work, and it is no longer grace.


Edit: Not to mention this too. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44).

 

[ladylynn]

10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.​

11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.

14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. (from Heb. 10)
​

As believers we are sanctified as well as are being sanctified.

It is not for us to wonder about the state of sanctification of other believers. We are to love them and build them up in who they are in Christ:

For those of us who aren’t dealing with the big, obvious sins (other than spiritual pride, arrogance, and judgementalism, that is), we need to be actively aware of the struggling believer’s secure position in Christ in the midst of their condition in the flesh. That active awareness should translate into gently lifting up those who struggle with their condition in the flesh, establishing them in the reality of their position in Christ, reminding them of the Throne of Grace that they/we can approach in Christ in their/our time of need. That’s talking about help when it comes to sinning, folks, and the Throne spoken of is not a throne of judgement (from the Law), but the Throne of Grace!

Apparently, the Thessalonians were really good at this:

​

1 Thessalonians 5:11-24
11Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.
12Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you. 13Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other. 14And we urge you, brothers, warn those who are idle, encourage the timid, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else.

16Be joyful always; 17pray continually; 18give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.

19Do not put out the Spirit’s fire; 20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.

22Avoid every kind of evil.

23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.​

It is important to understand that the Gospel does not place any condition on the wounded and broken except to believe on the One God sent. The command to love one another is ultimately fulfilled through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as He produces His Fruit through us – we bear that Fruit; it is a by-product of life in Him. Our sins - past, present, and future, along with the sins of the whole world, were paid for at the Cross, Christ Jesus having taken the wrath of God upon Himself to spare us that wrath. If we receive that forgiveness, we receive the Life of Christ, sealed with His Holy Spirit, adopted as sons through Christ Jesus and co-heirs with Him, Who then begins His work of healing and restoration in us.

Dear Believer, read through the letters to the early Body of Christ.

Read them out loud.

Discover who God says you are in Christ.​

Lift up those areas of weakness and sinning in your life – “Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.” (Hebrews 4:14-16)

Grace recognizes that for a lot of people, it’s not so neat and tidy; it can take longer for some than for others, for all - a lifetime, and it can be messy. But where sin increased, grace super abounded, and God is faithful:

May God Himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through.
May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless
at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
The one who calls you is faithful and He will do it!

​

-JGIG

Amen sister!! How true that we christians need to know who we really are IN Christ. I went for many years not knowing about what God's opinion was of me. Instead I kept my own and other people's opinions or atleast what I thought they were. I was a saved born again child of God under false condemnation from self and the enemy.

I lived like a ragged child when all along it was a child of the KING. I became the righteousness of God in Christ when I first accepted Jesus Christ as Saviour but didn't know it was my inheritance and identity! Even when first hearing that phrase it was appauling to my religious senses at the very idea of the word "righteous" as it applied to ME!!?? But God's Word clearly tells us in Hebrews and other Scripture as you posted JGIG

Hebrews 10:10 And in accordance with this will of God, we have been made holy consecrated and sanctified through the offering made Once for all of the body of Jesus Christ the Anointed One.

14... For by a single offering He has forever completely cleansed and perfected those who are consecrated and made holy... (forever completely cleansed and perfected....)

15... And also the Holy Spirit adds His testimony to us in confirmation of this for having said
16....This is the agreement testament covenant that I will set up and conclude with them after those days, says the Lord; I will imprint My laws upon their HEARTS, and I will inscribe them on their minds on their inmost thoughts and understanding.

17...He then goes on to say., and their sins and their lawbreaking I will remember no more

18...Now where there is absolute remission forgiveness and cancellation of the penalty of these sins and lawbreaking, there is no longer any offering made to atone for sin.
AMAZING

19...Therefore brethren, since we have FULL freedom and confidence to enter into the Holy of Holies by the POWER and VIRTUE in the BLOOD OF JESUS.

20...By this fresh new and living way which HE INITIATED and dedicated and opened for us through the separating curtain veil of the Holy of Holies, that is, through His flesh.

21... And Since we have such a GREAT and WONDERFUL and NOBLE PRIEST Who rules over the house of God,

22...Let us all come forward and draw near with true honest and sincere hearts in unqualified assurance and absolute conviction engendered by FAITH- by that leaning of the entire human personality on God in absolute trust and confidence IN HIS POWER, WISDOM, and GOODNESS, having our hearts sprinkled and purified from a GUILTY EVIL CONSCIENCE and our bodies cleansed with pure water.

23...So let us SEIZE and HOLD FAST and RETAIN WITHOUT WAVERING THE HOPE WE CHERISH and confess and our acknowledgement of it, for HE WHO promised IS reliable, sure and faithful to His Word...
Amplified Bible version

I like how you put that JGIG.. God's grace takes care of what is not neat or tidy and extreemly messytoo. Grace that is greater than all our sin... His blood continually cleanses us from all sin.
I look fwd to seeing more of your posts JGIG Come into the Bible study room. You would be sooo welcome and helpful in there too. Love, ladylynn

 

[cfultz3]

What part of "no boasting" don't you understand? Can a man say, "Whoo hoo! I am so smart! I believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you didn't! My great wisdom, logic and reasoning capabilities lead me to believe!"? Or was it the Holy Spirit who convicted you of sin, righteousness, and judgement? Was it you or the Holy Spirit that lead you to Christ?

Someone can believe that water quenches thirst but if they don't drink it they will surely die. So, what action or "work" is there in believing (as an active verb)? Surely it is not a work to believe, unless one is forcing oneself to believe in something they do not believe to be true. The Christian "believe" means to "trust in the finished work of Christ." It is to cease from what you're working at(which you can never attain) and be in His rest.

Hebrews 4:9-10

King James Version (KJV)
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.


Even if one concludes it is a work, they are saying that salvation is based upon works, and not faith which is contrary to the Word of God. If its a work, it isn't one a believer does, but one the Lord does on the inside of you.

[TABLE="width: 523"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519, align: center"]Then said they unto Him, "What work shall we do, that we[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519, align: center"]might work the works of God?" And Jesus answered them,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519, align: center"]"This is the work of God: That you believe on Him whom He[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519, align: center"]has sent." (John 6:27-29)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

As it says on some site I am citing:[TABLE="width: 523"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]He, Himself, was to finish all the work of[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]God. He would not ascend to heaven leaving any of us to finish[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]it. So when the people asked Him, "What work shall we do, that[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]we might work the works of God," He could not tell them[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]anything to DO. He could only tell them what to believe: They[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]needed to believe and rest in HIS finished work.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]So what does that leave me to do? Just what Jesus said:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]Believe. My "work" is to believe and rest in HIS finished work.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]How simple a thought. So simple we miss it. I am not to trust[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]in my works, but in HIS finished work. I am not to try to "do for[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]God," but to rest in what He has done. I am not to try to "win the[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]victory," but am to rest and stand in HIS completed victory. This[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 519"]is the gospel of grace[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

He says his "work" is to believe, and yet it is God's work the verse says. A doctor can incite the placebo effect by telling a patient that a pill (that is just sugar) will help lower their cholesterol and the person trusts in the doctor. They take the pill and their cholesterol lowers. The pill actually cant do that, its just sugar. I think its just silly to argue that "believing" is our work, to argue a works based salvation. Its annoying to be quite honest. I will also add, no one can say "Jesus is Lord' unless by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:3

King James Version (KJV)

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost



Heres another point.

Romans 11:6


6 oBut if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

You can't say your belief is a work in the sense of works[based salvation], because it would go contrary to this verse. Any work, and it is no longer grace.


Edit: Not to mention this too. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44).

Nevertheless, 'to believe' is active.

 

[cfultz3]

What part of "no boasting" don't you understand?

Your first statement implies I speak out of ignorance and you are here to correct that ignorance. That reminds me of someone who thinks a discussion between saints is actually a war, as though we are going for the jugular vein.

What I do understand is that 'to believe' is active. 'To hearken' is active.

What I do understand is that a faith which is not active is pretentious.

What we all need to understand is that our faith is to be active, inasmuch as it was with the Hebrews. Do not think for once that we can walk contrary to the Voice of the Lord, while God yet destroyed those who did in the wilderness. God will not be mocked, He is to be Hearkened to if one is to make it to the Promised Land.

 

[BenFTW]

Your first statement implies I speak out of ignorance and you are here to correct that ignorance. That reminds me of someone who thinks a discussion between saints is actually a war, as though we are going for the jugular vein.

What I do understand is that 'to believe' is active. 'To hearken' is active.


What I do understand is that a faith which is not active is pretentious.

What we all need to understand is that our faith is to be active, inasmuch as it was with the Hebrews. Do not think for once that we can walk contrary to the Voice of the Lord, while God yet destroyed those who did in the wilderness. God will not be mocked, He is to be Hearkened to if one is to make it to the Promised Land.

Most of that question's animosity wasn't meant for you, but to SeaBass and his false doctrine of works based salvation. Apologies, if it got misdirected a little.

God isn't and won't get angry with us any longer, according to His word. He won't "destroy" us, as in the wilderness, because such wrath was taken on Christ and according to prophecy. This "God will not be mocked" talk of doom and gloom I disagree with. God is a loving Father. He took no pleasure in punishing Israelites, but He is not a liar and had to uphold His end of the covenant. That meant curses for their disobedience. Sadly, they agreed to such terms in their boasting.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Then you would have to question if they are truly saved. Grace comes through faith alone, when the believer receives both then works follow after. In no way does salvation wait for works, rather salvation produces works. If you have "faith" and live the same old lifestyle, then it wasn't really a faith but possibly a mere belief. One may merely convert, but another is born again. But one can truly have faith in Christ without works and be eternally saved. Eternal security is not a product of works at all.

Better yet, You would conclude they were never saved.

One can not work until they are saved and given the power of God.

One who does NO WORK, has not been given the power of God. Who can resist the power and chastening of the Lord?

 

[dcontroversal]

Better yet, You would conclude they were never saved.

One can not work until they are saved and given the power of God.

One who does NO WORK, has not been given the power of God. Who can resist the power and chastening of the Lord?

No doubt, I agree and will add.....

To me it is a simple equation....

Grace---->Faith (spiritual gift from God)---->saved/justified/sanctified-->(spiritual salvation)-->works(evidence of spiritual salvation)

The (sanctification) of our daily lives is found in....

1. Transforming our minds through a study of the word
2. Transforming our minds changes our outward works and brings them online with God's will..
3. Spiritual works produced by a transformed child of God.....

It is evident that men can....

backslide to the point of forgetting that their (sins) have been purged
walk a worldly life and loose inheritance bit and piece meal
be cut loose for the destruction of the FLESH that the spirit may be saved in the day of judgment
have works of wood, hay and stubble yet still be saved

 

[cfultz3]

Most of that question's animosity wasn't meant for you, but to SeaBass and his false doctrine of works based salvation. Apologies, if it got misdirected a little.

God isn't and won't get angry with us any longer, according to His word. He won't "destroy" us, as in the wilderness, because such wrath was taken on Christ and according to prophecy....

I am sure you are not saying that once we are saved that we can walk as we wish and therefore, I will not entertain that.

But, what becomes of those who decide to continue walking contrary to the Spirit's conviction? Do they not have nothing to look forward to except fiery indignation?

Is not the Promises made to those who hearken to the Voice of the Lord, by which hearkening, one does enter into His rest?

We can no more be disobedient than they, seeing that it was by disobedience which they were not PERMITTED to have entered into that Rest. But, they who do put their trust in Him on His path, also come to know His ways, not being stubborn in their heart, hearkening to Him as to how He desires us to walk.

 

[just-me]

No doubt, I agree and will add.....

To me it is a simple equation....

Grace---->Faith (spiritual gift from God)---->saved/justified/sanctified-->(spiritual salvation)-->works(evidence of spiritual salvation)

The (sanctification) of our daily lives is found in....

1. Transforming our minds through a study of the word
2. Transforming our minds changes our outward works and brings them online with God's will..
3. Spiritual works produced by a transformed child of God.....

It is evident that men can....

backslide to the point of forgetting that their (sins) have been purged
walk a worldly life and loose inheritance bit and piece meal
be cut loose for the destruction of the FLESH that the spirit may be saved in the day of judgment
have works of wood, hay and stubble yet still be saved

That is a good analogy but I would like to add one more thing. Building in any case is necessary, but if one doesn't build at all what happens to them then?

 

[just-me]

I am sure you are not saying that once we are saved that we can walk as we wish and therefore, I will not entertain that.

But, what becomes of those who decide to continue walking contrary to the Spirit's conviction? Do they not have nothing to look forward to except fiery indignation?

Is not the Promises made to those who hearken to the Voice of the Lord, by which hearkening, one does enter into His rest?

We can no more be disobedient than they, seeing that it was by disobedience which they were not PERMITTED to have entered into that Rest. But, they who do put their trust in Him on His path, also come to know His ways, not being stubborn in their heart, hearkening to Him as to how He desires us to walk.

Hebrews 4:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Sounds like all the Word of God applies for today with as much gravity as it ever did in the past.