Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[KSublett]

I know that reading is a task in our evolved world but just remember that words come in a serial form: just begin at the beginning of sentence and see whether you understand it or not. Then go on to another sentence or word. I betcha that the post can be read while the preacher is telling some cute story about himself. That by the way is called LEGALISM which is beyond the LOGOS which is the regulative principle which is the OPPOSITE of "what happened to me when my scooter crashed and I had to call a Deacon."

The PATTERN defined by Christ in the wilderness was to collect small groups with about 10 families with a sub-elder who had a real job and would not pass the plate:

EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing or rhetoric beyond the PATTERN of PREACHING the Word (only) by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine. For the Purpose driven purpose that Paul wants men and women to be silent:
INCLUSIVE of Rest (from), Reading and Rehearsing the Word. Paul and Peter showed how that is to be fulfilled.

That pattern existed for the godly people to quarantine them to their own very isolated villages to prevent them from attending the worship of the Starry Host (Acts 7) especially in Jerusalem where God had not commanded king, kingdom, temple, priests, animal sacrifices or Levites as soothsayer-sorcerers making a great noise.



THAT is the pattern: Jesus added the Lord's Supper to SHOW FORTH His Death: once you recognized that HE paid it all then all of the Works of Human hands absolutely ceases.

It took almost 400 years before the sermon and singing came in when unwashed bishops got paid for the first time in recorded history.

That's the CORE: Read Ephesians 4 before the cunning craftsmen or sophists were silenced. People assembled in HOUSES to get in out of the rain but I have posted HOARDS of factoids to prove that:

LEGALISM is doing anything with the works of human hands which includes "poetry" meaning to compose your own songs and sermons.

The Synagogue and many local societies had a POOR BOX for the poor and widows. Tithing and laying by in story is FORBIDDEN because Jesus paid it all. Most early assemblies understood that.

Singing or preaching (rhetoric) was forbidden so there was no LAW of preaching or LAW (hard bondage) of listening.

Christ gave APT elders as the only pastor-teachers and deacons to assist them. Any STAFF added would be legalism because one believes that they can do WORKS by being a benevolent society or a STAFFER to fix my scooter.

When the Lord is HIS holy temple (me) He commands that everyone COME BEFORE HIM IN SILENCE.

LEGALISM is defined in clear terms and points to Rhetoric, Singing and Playing instruments:
Jesus called them hypocrites in Ezekiel 33 as He named the Scribes and Pharisees: their LEGALISM was in making up their own sermons. Because a LEGALIST cannot be saved I would think that reading a few facts would be acceptable.

An ANTI-legalists or ANTI-patternist has about 10 more PIECES (staff, programs, ACTS) than a a patternist or legalists.
Joke: what's the difference between a LIBERTARIAN preacher and a CONSERVATIVE Preacher? Answer; Oh, about 50 thousand dollars a year.

 

[posthuman]

LEGALISM is doing anything with the works of human hands which includes "poetry" meaning to compose your own songs and sermons.

maybe we ought to stop posting our own doctrines and laws and stick to the Word of God then?
how do you think your long winded posts of confusion, misapplication, misinterpretation, falsehood and deceitful 'exegesis' compare to 'composing your own sermons' ?

your own words condemn yourself.

When the Lord is HIS holy temple (me) He commands that everyone COME BEFORE HIM IN SILENCE.

now you continually argue with this verse completely without regard to its context,
but let's assume it is to be understood in the way you keep saying:

doesn't that mean there ought to be no singing, no preaching and no speaking?
why do you misapply it to music, and then stop there?

if this is what you believe, shut your own mouth, or admit your hypocrisy.

 

[KSublett]

Strange as it sounds the Spirit OF Christ in Isaiah 58 defined how to RESTORE THE OLD PATHS and this included NOT seeking your own pleasure NOR speaking your own Words. Paul in Romans 14 silenced all of the PERFORMERS and commanded that we use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning: a disciple of Christ goes to S School of Christ. Everyone believed that their musical instrument was a god or a house for a god: the familiar spirit of the Witch of Endor was an old, dry wineskin she used as a sounding board: it has the same meaning as a Nebel or harp.

Habakkuk 2:18 What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols?
Habakkuk 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it.

Psalms 57:8 Awake up, my glory; awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early.
Psalms 108:2 Awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early.

We even have a mention at a later date of a similar custom in connection with the cult in Jerusalem, where certain Levites, called me'oreim, 'arousers," sang every morning this verse from Ps 44: 'Awake, Lord, awake! Do not abandon us for ever." The Talmud tells us that Johy Hyrcanus suppressed the practice because it recalled too readily a pagan custom.

Psalms 44:23 Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever.
Psalms 44:24 Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and forgettest our affliction and our oppression?

A similar practice is attested in connection with the cult of Herakles-Melkart. According to Menander, as he is quoted by Josephus, the king Hiram, who was a contemporary of Solomon, rebuilt the temples of Tyre and, 'he was the first to celebrate the awakening of Heracles in the month of Peritius." (de Vaux, p. 247)

This was the personification of Lucifer whom Christ called the "singing and harp-playing harlot" in the gardenof Eden

In an inscription from Cyprus, in one from Rhodes and in several from around the district of Carthage, there are references to important personages who bear the title Mqm"lm which we can translate as 'arouser of the god." (de Vaux, p. 247).

Habakkuk 2:20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

Paul commanded that both men and women be silent "so that everyone might be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth: that is what a Christian or Disciple does. Their problem was that both the men and women claimed to speak for God but Paul assured them that there is ONE GOD THE FATHER and ONE MEDIATOR between man and God, the man Jesus Christ. If one SPEAKS the command is to SPEAK AS THE ORACLE OF GOD: Logos or the regulative principle outlaws anything beyond teaching that which hs been taught.

Sileo I. perf. pass. silitum est, Aug. Civ. Dei, 16, 2), 2, v. n. and a. [cf. Goth. silan, ana-silan, to be silent; Germ. seltsam, selten], to be noiseless, still, or silent, to keep silence; act., not to speak of, to keep silent respecting a thing (class.; stronger than tacere).
I. Transf., to be still or quiet (opp. to being in action), to remain inactive, to rest, cease (in class. prose, for the most part only of things; cf. “quiesco): et cycnea melePhoebeaqueCarmina consimili ratione oppressa silerent,” Lucr. 2, 506: “silent diutius Musae Varronis quam solebant,

Ăpollo , [Abaddon, Apollyon] ĭnis (earlier Ăpello , also god of the healing art; and since he communicated oracles in verse, god of poetry and music, presiding over the Muses, lass. period of the arts, represented with weapons, the cithara, a crown of laurel, etc., with hair commonly flowing down upon his neck,

chorda , ae, f., = khordē. * II. Catgut, a string (of a musical instrument)
carmen , ĭ a tune, song, air, lay, strain, note, sound, both vocal and instrumental, tuba, cithara,
opprĭmo C. [select] To put down, suppress, quell, check, quash: “quae oratio a censore opprimenda est,” Cic. Fin. 2, 10, 30: “sine tumultu rem omnem oppressere,” Liv. 2, 4: “tumultum,” id. 31, 11: “fraudem,” to baffle, thwart, id. 26, 6; Vulg. Lev. 24, 16.— D. To overthrow, overwhelm, crush, overpower, prostrate, subdue:

Could you not tarry with Jesus for one hour?

 

[Malcyboy]

This pathetic is truly pathetic its no longer biblical but simply babbling at each other. You know something, if God truly despised music as they wish we would feel convicted for it and would have specifically instructed no music, if God didn't mind us using it then theres no issue, do what you feel in your spirit to do, stop listening to men

 

[KSublett]

This pathetic is truly pathetic its no longer biblical but simply babbling at each other. You know something, if God truly despised music as they wish we would feel convicted for it and would have specifically instructed no music, if God didn't mind us using it then theres no issue, do what you feel in your spirit to do, stop listening to men

I just quoted Habakkuk were the Spirit OF Christ silenced the Idols which SPOKE which were musical instruments.
God lives in US as His Holy Temple: silence is commanded many times in the Epistles. Then I quoted what the Spirit spoke to you:

Habakkuk 2:20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.
Paul commanded that both men and women be silent "so that everyone might be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth: that is what a Christian or Disciple does. Their problem was that both the men and women claimed to speak for God but Paul assured them that there is ONE GOD THE FATHER and ONE MEDIATOR between man and God, the man Jesus Christ. If one SPEAKS the command is to SPEAK AS THE ORACLE OF GOD: Logos or the regulative principle outlaws anything beyond teaching that which hs been taught.

Silence is required for the REST of Jesus: PAUO like sabbath commands STOP the rhetoric, singing, playing instruments. Jesus called the HYPOCRITES by quoting Ezekiel 33.

Sileo to be noiseless, still, or silent, to keep silence; act., not to speak of, to keep silent respecting a thing (class.; stronger than tacere). I. Transf., to be still or quiet (OPPOSITE. to being in action), to remain inactive, to rest, cease (in class. prose, for the most part only of things; cf. “quiesco): et cycnea melePhoebeaqueCarmina consimili ratione oppressa silerent,” Lucr. 2, 506: “silent diutius Musae Varronis quam solebant,

Phoebeaque is Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon. Carmen is singing or singing and playing an instrument. Christ said SILENCE the musicians who have Apollyon as their leaders. John in Revelation 18 calls the SORCERERS.

THE Musa or Muses: I.a muse, one of the goddesses of poetry, music, all of the musical instruments and all Liberal Arts and Crafts A. A song, a poem: “musa procax,

God abandoned the Israelites to worship the starry host BECAUSE of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. Apollo is Zoe or Lucifer or any of the gods the Jews worshipped and named in Amos and Acts 7. This was Apollo among the Greeks.

Ăpollo , ĭnis (earlier Ăpello , also god of the healing art; and since he communicated oracles in verse, god of poetry and music, presiding over the Muses, lass. period of the arts, represented with weapons, the cithara, a crown of laurel, etc., with hair commonly flowing down upon his neck,

Why would people say that God never condemned any of the Works of Human hands and claiming that He needed it or wanted it when the Bible is filled with it? Why would it not be important if the Spirit OF Christ associated music with telling God that they did not intend to obey Him?

Paul commanded Silence in the Epistles SO THAT the Word could be PREACHED by being READ for Comfort and Doctrine. A disciple of Christ goes to the school of Christ and we should not need a law which forbids us to make noise when He is teaching.

 

[KSublett]

Christ in Habakkuk and all of the prophets promises us REST and silence from the noise made by others: because worship is IN the spirit where we meditate it is not possible to "worship" when others are making certain that we cannot worship.

Silence is required for the REST of Jesus: PAUO like sabbath commands STOP the rhetoric, singing, playing instruments. Jesus called the HYPOCRITES by quoting Ezekiel 33.

Silence can only be understood by the use of lexicons to see how the word is used: God always silences all of the works of human hands so that HE can speak when the elders teach that which has been taught.

Sileo to be noiseless, still, or silent, to keep silence; act., not to speak of, to keep silent respecting a thing (class.; stronger than tacere). I. Transf., to be still or quiet (OPPOSITE. to being in action), to remain inactive, to rest, cease (in class. prose, for the most part only of things; cf. “quiesco): et cycnea melePhoebeaqueCarmina consimili ratione oppressa silerent,” Lucr. 2, 506: “silent diutius Musae Varronis quam solebant,

I love to chase words and see how the writers of the time who lived before our post-literate world thought about people who WORK too hard.

Lucretius, De Rerum Natura. 2.506
New parts must then be added; follows next,
If thou percase wouldst vary still its shapes,
That by like logic each arrangement still
Requires its increment of other parts.
Ergo, an augmentation of its frame
Follows upon each novelty of forms.
....The peacock's golden generations, stained

Who works harder in composing new songs, new tunes, new arrangements, new beats that musicians. Do your best, someone will grow to call you an old legalist when they hear and watch your "perform."
​

With spotted gaieties, would lie o'erthrown
By some new colour of new things more bright;
The odour of myrrh and savours of honey despised;
The swan's old lyric, and Apollo's hymns,
Once modulated on the many chords,
Would likewise sink o'ermastered and be mute:
For, lo, a somewhat, finer than the rest,
Would be arising evermore

 

[KSublett]

Jesus had a lot to say about the laded burden of the musical Scribes and Pharisees. He certified the teachings of Christ in the prophets which defined a church of Christ both inclusively and exclusively.

He understood that music from mystery meant "to make the lambs dumb before the slaughter." They musically mocked Jesus all of the way to the cross. So it is pretty hard to speak about Jesus without definining the Laded Burden and the Burden Ladersl.

We have pretty well supplied the CONTEXT to show that when God abandoned Israel to worship the starry host, using proof texts will lead to a lot of hurt for those under attack.

If a moderator wants me to stop posting the text let me know.

 

[posthuman]

Silence is required for the REST of Jesus: PAUO like sabbath commands STOP the rhetoric, singing, playing instruments.

look, i really think you need to start reading the Bible more closely:

A psalm.
A song.
For the Sabbath day.
It is good to praise the LORD and make music to your name, O Most High
(Psalm 92:1)

and you and i both ought to listen to the rebuke of our brother Malcyboy. this thread has long since passed the point of being edifying.

that verse alone ought to completely end this entire discussion. enter the rest.

 

[KSublett]

What Paul said was not: "Sing Psalms." He said, "SPEAK to Teach and admonish one another with the inspired text." Teach is the same word as "preach" and the operative word is teach or instruct and not "sing" and most assuredly not engage in "music" which was always secular or pagan.

Psalms 92:0 A Psalm or Song for the sabbath day.
Psalms 92:1 It is a good thing to give thanks unto the LORD,
.....and to sing psalmus
.....praises
cantĭcum monody, solo: singing tone in the delivery of an orator, never tuneful
.....unto thy name, O most High:
Psalms 92:2 To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning,
.....and thy faithfulness every night,
Psalms 92:3 Upon an
.....nstrument of ten strings,
.....and upon the psaltery;
.....upon the harp with a solemn sound.

The psaltery (psalterion, saltere, sauterie, Psalterium, Psalter, salterio) is an ancient intstrument seen in many forms. Early versions were simply a wooden board with gut strings stretched between pegs. The strings were plucked with fingers or by plectra (the name might have derived from the Greek psallein meaning plucked with fingers).

If you pick the guitar with a PICK you do not honor the meaning of words. If you blow on a flute or beat on a drum or play a piano or organ then Ephesians 5 proves that you have no respect for words which is the WAY everyone communicates. You cannot translate or interpret a chord run run a hundred times which defines a LADED BURDEN.

"The name of psaltery entered Christian literature in the 3rd century B.C. translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint where, in the Psalms, nebel was translated psalterion.

Thus, Nebuchadnezzar's idolatrous ensemble included the Aramic psantria. Notice, also, that the book of Psalms has also become known as the Psalter (or psalterium), from the hymns sung with thisharp. Source

The PRIESTS and Levites were permitted to pollute or profane the REST day and the Temple because God had turned them over to worship the starry host: but David couldn't be there. I pluck and play a bit on the REST day where rest means REST from whatever it is that you want to SELL me.

I will still have to look at the REST of Psalm 92 because Psalm 92:0 is not part of the Psalm: if you REST then you can PLUCK.

 

[Jabberjaw]

look, i really think you need to start reading the Bible more closely:

A psalm.
A song.
For the Sabbath day.
It is good to praise the LORD and make music to your name, O Most High
(Psalm 92:1)

and you and i both ought to listen to the rebuke of our brother Malcyboy. this thread has long since passed the point of being edifying.

that verse alone ought to completely end this entire discussion. enter the rest.

You can put an end to it if you can show the verse where the New Testament Church used mechanical musical instruments.

 

[KSublett]

The heading is not part of the poem: never metrical.
You are forbidden to attend the Sacrificial System where the priests polluted or profaned the temple.
You may sing (chant) and pluck three instruments on the Sabbath which was the REST day for the Godly: they didn't go to church on their rest day.

"It (the pipe meaning to love passionatelyí) was apparently a secular instrument and is never listed in the temple orchestra; only in Ps. 150:4 it is mentioned in a religious (but not ritual) function. Its ethos was not blameless at all, ase we see from Genesis Rabbah 50:

"The angels said to Lot: There are players of the pipe (organ) in the country, hence it ought to be destroyed. Its rabbinical identification with the aboda, the flute of the notorious Syrian bayaderes, emphasizes the erotic element which already the Hebrew name suggests. (Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible, p. 460, Abingdon).

The Psalmist was an octopus. Everyone but the Civil-Military-Clergy complex was hobbled to their very isolated villages. WORK outlawed "sending out ministers of God." REST day was REST day and they were permitted to gather during their REST day to read and meditate on the Word of God.

SABBATH was not a WORSHIP DAY but a REST day. I don't think that God will hurt you if you, like me, maybe twang the guitar, clang the banjo and do some dulcimer ditties. I also have a one-stringed harp on a board, a flute made out of a deer bone and assorted PVC pipes to huff and puff on.

Matthew 12:2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him,
......Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
Matthew 12:3 But he said unto them,
......Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Matthew 12:4 How he entered into the house of God,
......and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat,
......neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law,
......how that on the sabbath days the PRIESTS in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

The one out of seven days was for REST: It is never called a day of worship. The Clergy profaned the Sabbath because they (only) was the token abandoned to worship the starry host. Everything that happened during the Monarchy profaned God and His Word.

H2490 châlal khaw-lal' A primitive root (compare H2470 ); properly to bore, that is, (by implication) to wound, to dissolve; figuratively to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one’s word), to begin (as if by an opening-wedge); denominatively (from H2485 ) to play (the flute):—begin (X men began), defile, X break, defile, X eat (as common things), X first, X gather the grape thereof, X take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.

As in "Lucifer was CAST AS PROFANE out of Heaven." He/she is called the singing and harp-playing harlot in the garden of Eden. The h2490 word for pollute has the same meaning as Halal as the root meaning of Lucifer.

God QUARANTINED the city by closing the gates so that the godly people were not present when the PRIESTS profaned the Sabbath. If you PROFANE the REST of Jesus it is the SIGN that God has been there and will not pass by again (Amos 8)

None of the instrumental noise was performed was with congregational singing in the synagogue or Church

 

[KSublett]

Hit and run is not good: here is some more about using Psalm 92 as authority to impose musical noise in The School of the Word as the only meaning of worship IN THE SPIRIT.

After Israel was abandoned to worship the starry host, the Spirit OF Christ gave the godly people REST in their local villages by restricting their travel. The Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites "profaned" or "polluted" the Sabbath because this Babylonianism and all SUN worship was on the seventh day which was considered evil and one must not do anything to upset the "gods." They could pollute the sabbath without any blame because God had not commanded the temple sacrificial system or anything connected to it.

Jesus died to give us the TRUE REST. The laded burden was "spiritual anxiety created by religious ritual." The word REST specificially gives us the command to STOP everything not consistent with the Jewish Sabbath. The direct command of the elders as the local pastor-teachers is to "teach that which HAS been taught." The singing passages insist on SPEAKING "that which is written." Therefore, sermonizing and versifying violates the command of Isaisah 58:13.

Sabbath has the same meaning as REST or the Greek word PAUO which means STOP the rhetoric, singing, playing, acting or fleecing the lambs.

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Exod 20:10
Melakkah (h4399) mel-aw-kaw'; from the same as 4397; prop. deputyship, i. e. ministry; gen. employment (never servile) or work (abstr. or concr.); also property (as the result of labor): - business, * cattle, * industrious, occupation, (* -pied), * officer, thing (made), use, (manner of) work ([man], -manship).
Malok (h4397) mal-awk'; from an unused root mean. to despatch as a deputy; a messenger; specially of God, i. e. an angel (also a prophet, priest or teacher): - ambassador, angel, king, messenger.

Paul commanded that what he called synagogues STOP the self-pleasure which includes all of the hypocritic or performance arts and crafts and use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our LEARNING.

SELLING religion in the name of God profaned PAUO or the Rest Jesus died to give us to remove the laded burden (specificilly arousal music) AND the Burden Laders.

Nehemiah 13:16 There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.
Nehemiah 13:17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them,
.....What evil thing is this that ye do, and PROFANE the sabbath day?
Nehemiah 13:18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us,
.....and upon this city? yet ye bring
.....more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.
Nehemiah 13:19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath,
.....I commanded that the gates should be shut,
..... and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath:
.....and some of my servants set I at the gates,
.....hat there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.

God did not command the king, kingdom, temple, priests, animal slaughter or the Levite Sorcerers.
God promised David a TENT on Mount Sion a Jebusite High Place
BUT, Solomon built God a HOUSE
BUT, God does not LIVE in houses built by human hands.
Because the Monarchy had been abandoned to worship the starry host BECAUSE of musical idolatry, the Jews were just mistaken: it didn't matter if the temple was PROFANED in carrying out the Worship of the Starry Host.

Matthew 12:6 But I say unto you, That in this place is ONE greater than the temple.
Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth,
.....I will have mercy, and NOT sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

 

[posthuman]

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel.
(Galatians 1:6)

For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
(Galatians 5:1)

 

[KSublett]

And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is;
but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
(Hebrews 10:24-25)

Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more OFFERING for sin.
Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

The OLD COVENANT demanded that a sacrifice be made and that the priest had to be totally washed in the laver just as the sacrifice had been washed BEFORE he could go into the Holy Place (type of the church) or the Most Holy Place where we worship God in the PLACE of the human spirit which is the ONLY place He seeks us. You do not bring 2,000 people boldly before the throne of grace with loud singing with or without instruments.

That new "door" into the holiest is manifestly not on Mount Gerizim, not on Mount Zion and there fore not on any of our "mounts."
Fawcett-Brown notes that:

"No priestly caste now mediates between the sinner and his Judge. We may come boldly with loving confidence, not with slavish fear, directly through Christ, the only mediating Priest.
The minister is not officially nearer God than the layman; nor can the latter serve God at a distance or by deputy, as the natural man would like.
"Each must come for himself, and all are accepted when they come by the new and living way opened by Christ. Thus all Christians are, in respect to access directly to God, virtually high priests (Re 1:6). They draw nigh in and through Christ, the only proper High Priest (Heb 7:25).

Preachers and musicians get waged to BRING YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD.

Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

However, as usual, they have it turned upside down:
Paul claims that we must withdraw from false teachers because they are not fulfilling the "contract" between teacher and student:

WHAT IS COMMANDED AS THE WAY TO MARK A LOGOS SPEAKER

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words,
even the WORDS of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the
doctrine which is according to godliness; 1 Ti.6:3

If you preacher huffs and puff then DON'T GO THERE: DON'T FEED HIM.

Sermonibus 2. Ordinary speech, speaking, talking, the language of conversation(Opposite. contentio): “sermo est oratio remissa et finitima cottidianae locutioni,” Of prose as opposed to poetry: “comoedia .
God is the LOGOS: Jesus SPOKE the LOGOS: Jesus commanded the Apostles to SPEAK the logos. This is a word simple simon would understand. Simple would understand that LEXIS is the OPPOSITE of ODE just as UP is the opposite of DOWN.
Logos like most words is both inclusive and exclusive.

IV. inward debate of the soul 1.thinking, reasoning, explanation, opposite perception,
IV. 1 Opposite Logismos calculation, reasoning, III. reasoning power,
in Logic, of discursive reasoning, opposite intuition
2. reason as a faculty,
V. continuous statement, narrative(whether fact or fiction), oration lego
3. Opposite Muthos as history to legend II.tale, story, narrative, Myth is fiction opposite logos or historic truth.

4.speech, delivered in court, assembly
VI. verbal expression or utterance, lego, lexis
Lexis A.speech, opposite ôidê, 1.art of song 5. = eppsdê, spell, incantation
4.text of an author, opposite exegesis [Peter's private interpretation outlaws exegesis]
prose, opposite poiêsis, Id.R.390a; X. the Word or Wisdom of God, personified as his agent in creation and world-government,

Christ in Isaiah 8 said that if people do NOT speak that which is written THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM. Paul continues to identify those withNO LIGHT.

WHAT THIS SAYS ABOUT A FALSE TEACHER "LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE."

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 1 Tim 6:4

The Pseudo-Priest replacing the ONE ANOTHER marks that assembly as NOT CHRISTIAN.

Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of OURSELVES together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching

The civil ekklesia or synagogue met roughly each week: it had a CONTACT MAN in each location who could call the people for regular WORD ASSEMBLIES or to deliver any news. When Paul wrote to a church in a city the postman knew that Jimmy the Baker was the CONTACT man and His direct command was to READ the letter. A synagogue had a poor box for the poor and widows: teachers might be around a synagogue so that if Paul wanted to be a student then HE hired the teacher WHILE the teacher was teaching. However, the teacher did not move in with the disciple. That was the PATTERN Jesus observed.

CHRIST OUTLAWED SINGING, PLAYING AND RHETORIC IN THE SYNAGOGUE IN THE WILDERNESS.

episun-a^gōgē , hē, A.gathering or being gathered together, LXX 2 Ma.2.7, 2 Ep.Thess.2.1, etc.

IN AN UNLAWFUL SYNAGOGUE

A laded burden marks any kind of arousal music with or without machines and is a TAX NOT IN TIME OF WAR:
b.collection of a sum of money,

OUTLAWED as a LAW:
2Corinthians 8:8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.

 

[KSublett]

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel.

(Galatians 1:6)

You can send me a bill but I wont pay BECAUSE:

Gal. 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins,
that he might deliver us from this present evil world,
according to the will of God and our Father:

onēros , a, on, in physical sense, A.oppressed by toils, ponērotatos kai aristos, of Heracles, Hes.Frr.138,139.
2. of things, toilsome, painful, grievous, “erga” Hom.Epigr.14.20; “nousōn ponēroteron” Thgn. 274; “phortion” Ar.Pl.352. PHORTON is the Laded Burden which are arousal songs and a "tax NOT in time of war." A laded burden is CLAIMING that God gave you the right to TITHES AND OFFERINGS so you don't have to do productive work.

LIBERTY is LIBERTY FROM whatever it is you want to do to PROGRAM my time and money 24/7 while claiming to be my MINISTER.

ergon , 1. in Il. mostly of works or deeds of war, “polemēia e.” Il.2.338, al., Od.12.116 ; “ergon makhēs”
“ta tōn Musōn e.” Hdt.1.36 ;
c. of other occupations, thalassia e. fishing, 5.67 ; a seaman's life, Il.2.614 : periphr., daitos..erga works of feasting, 9.228 ; “philotēsia e.” Od.11.246 ; “erga gamoio” Il.5.429 ; “erga Kuprogenous” Sol.26 ; “Aphroditēs” h.Ven.1 ; also “teknōn es e.” A.Ag.1207 : theskelos
2. result of work, profit or interest, ergon [khrēmatōn] interest or profit on money,

-organon , to, (ergon, erdō) 3. musical instrument, Il. mostly of deeds of war, polemêïaerga, 3.a hard piece of work, a hard task, Il.: also, a shocking deed or act, Polemeios: warlike, aoida war-note, of the trumpet, B.17.4 aoid-ê 5. = eppsdê, spell, incantation

This is repeated in Ephesians 2.

In Ephesians 2 we are saved by grace (which teaches) through faith (which believes) but saved FROM WHAT?

But, I have a race going on and I intend to go to my recliner and sleep through it--not on purpose. I'll be back.

 

[KSublett]

The parallel example of what we are saved FROM. Liberty does not give YOU the right to IMPOSE musical machines. Liberty which Jesus died to give ME is freedom FROM the laded burden and burden laders. The burden includes ODE singing which causes "spiritual anxiety caused by religious observations" when Jesus said that the kingdom does not come to such rituals.

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceedingriches of his grace, in his kindness toward us, through Christ Jesus. Eph 2:7
For by graceare ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the [SIZE=+1]GIFT[/SIZE] of God: Eph 2:8

Grace HATH APPEARED teaching us to REJECT the regular "worship rituals" and this SAVES US daily by faith when we OBEY what Grace Teaches us. Jesus is God's Grace personified

SAVED FROM WHAT? Ephesians has a first verse

Eph 2:1 AND you hath he quickened [Baptism], who were dead in trespasses and sins; [not unconsious]

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past YE walked [not unconsious]
.....ccording to the course of this world,
.....according to the prince of the power of the air,
.....the SPIRIT that now WORKETH in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past
in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the DESIRES of the flesh and of the mind;
and were by nature the children [produced by]of wrath, even as others.

Paul wants BOTH men and women to be SILENT to prevent WRATH or ORGY.

Orge I. natural impulse or propension: one's temper, temperament, disposition, orgê , hê, II. passion, anger, wrath, 3. Panos orgai panic fears (i. e. terrors sent by Pan), Eur.:--but, orgê tinos anger against a person or at a thing, Soph.; hierôn orgas wrath at or because of the rites, Aesch.

Orgi-a , iôn, ta, secret rites, secret worship, practised by the initiated, of the rites of the Cabeiri and Demeter, of Orpheus, of Cybele, most freq. of the rites of Dionysus .2.81, E.Ba.34, al., Theoc.26.13. II. generally, RITES, orgia Mousôn [Rev 18:22] Ar.Ra.356 . Aphroditês [ZOE]

Erôt-ikos A.of or caused by love, orgê

[190] hymn the unending gifts the gods enjoy and the sufferings of men, all that they endure at the hands of the deathless gods, and how they live witless and helpless and cannot find healing for death or defence against old age.

See Strabo 10.3.7
"The 'sounding gong and tinkling cymbal' used in such worship are mentioned in a derogatory sense in 1 Corinthians 13:1; but the religious outcry itself is dealt with more directly. It is essential that we understand that much of the shouting involved in the rite was the specific function of women. Euripides describes the advent of Dionysiac religion to Thebes thus: 'This city, first in Hellas, now shrills and echoes to my women's cries, their ecstasy of joy'

 

[posthuman]

The parallel example of what we are saved FROM. Liberty does not give YOU the right to IMPOSE musical machines. Liberty which Jesus died to give ME is freedom FROM the laded burden and burden laders.

no one is telling you that you have to incorporate music into your worship any more than anyone is telling you you have to eat pork or egrets.
to the absolute contrary,
you are imposing laws not found in scripture at all on people who are praising God with joy & thanksgiving. you are placing a burden that is not borne out in the Word of God on my brothers and sisters.

you can copy paste all the gibberish you want, and think yourself "wise" because of it, and truly, you have already received your reward in full. the Holy Spirit told us some 2,000 years ago that men exactly like you would appear:

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.
(1 Timothy 4:1-5)

 

[Kerry]

The longest book in the bible is Psalms. which is a book of songs and they were set to musical instruments. David played a harp that eased Saul.

 

[RedTent]

I don't think the Lord is looking at each of our hearts to find out if we accept an instrument played to praise Him or not, but God is looking at our hearts to find out if we follow Him or change what He says.

Some of you are judging David for using a harp, that is wrong. Some of you are saying that because scripture tells us that using music to praise him is good, they add that saying that means God also condemns using instruments for praise. That is wrong. It does NOT say that. You can choose about judging instruments, but you are not allowed to choose what scripture says.

 

[AslanII]

What if I give you some commands on singing only, then you wouldn't need for God to tell you that instruments are not allowed. If you're told to do something one way and you choose not to do it the way God commands, that would be a sin. Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16 and 1 Corinthians 14:15 1 Corinthians 14:15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.

Shava, I am trying not to get helplessly angry here, but I can not believe that in this day and age you even ask such a question! Again, it is the and+the also. It is not just one thing and not the other. You can pray and sing in the Spirit and use instruments!! If you ask questions like these you are either in the wrong church, or you simply don't understand Scripture at all. Sorry for being judgmental but really!!