How to do church?: Ask unregenerate sinners how they want church operated.

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1still_waters

Guest
#1
So is the best way to operate a church to go out, ask a bunch of unregenerate sinners in rebellion to God how they want church operated, and then operate it that way?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#2
well that depends on what 'church' is for --

is it primarily for evangelism, ministering to the poor & needy, fellowship among believers, praise & worship, teaching and bible study, some other kind of outreach, prayer, celebration.. what?

probably many kinds of meetings with many purposes go on in many churches. i'd think that in some cases that might be appropriate but in a lot of other cases it wouldn't be.

you got some specific happening in mind?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,930
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#3
So is the best way to operate a church to go out, ask a bunch of unregenerate sinners in rebellion to God how they want church operated, and then operate it that way?
Seems to me the Holy Bible tells us how to "operate a church." I'm going with His Holy Word............ :)

John 17:1) These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 .) As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 .) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 .) I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 .) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 .) I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 .) Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 .) For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 .) I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 .) And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 .) And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 .) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 .) And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 .) I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 .) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 .) They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 .) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 .) As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 .) And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 .) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 .) That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 .) And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 .) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

While these Scriptures may not lay out the details of how to "operate" a church, they do show how the Church is not "OF" the world............and in my opinion, that is step one.......The Apostle Paul gives advice on how to "operate" a church in various Epistles he wrote.

God bless

(edited) Just to be clear, NO...........with regards to the answer in the OP
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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Australia
#4
Depends on who you ask youll end up with a church that has a bar, strippers, a brothel, nightclubs, all sorts of drugs and a satanic altar. Just to name a few
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#5
In Acts it doesn't actually say that you must go to the synagogue, but when it was decided what ritual laws were binding to the gentiles, it was only those laws that would let them attend synagogue. The very after giving them speaks of the synagogue.

Act 15:21 For since ancient times, Moses has had those who proclaim him in every city, and every Sabbath day he is read aloud in the synagogues."

We are also told that all scripture is for our learning. So one of the requirements of church should be learning about God and the Savior. Reading scripture was a main function of the synagogue. There seems to be a difference between these large gatherings to learn about God and the smaller gatherings to share God and love each other.

We are told we are a family in Christ, with God as our mutual father. This family is to meet together and express love and caring for each other. This is very difficult to do in our mega churches, so God must want us also to form smaller groups of families who love and care for each other.

I have never seen a scripture that says this is the place where our outreach to the unsaved should be, rather scripture points to keeping the unsaved and unrepentant out of these groups. We are given instructions on how to handle any immorality that comes into this family group, it is always to either cure them or get rid of them.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#6
I'm not certain why you would as sinners how to operate a church. Is this seeker friendly you are talking about? I think this is a big issue in our day.

To my mind the only thing the Bible really has to say is that believers "met in homes." To my mind, unless an entire synagogue got saved, a synagogue wouldn't be the right place for believers to meet as believers. It might be good to go there for outreach, as Paul often did. Mind you, he also went to the acropolis or Mars Hill in Athens in Acts 17, and that was certainly not a church!

I go to a church of about 300 members, with a worship band (very conservative!) with 3 pastors, elders, deacons, etc. platform Sunday service and small groups and Bible studies, etc.

I have read that liturgical is very fashionable among young people, and I have a DIL who is a Lutheran who only likes "high" church. So low, high, home, and synagogue. I guess the best answer to how to do church is:

"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.” Matt 18:20
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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#7
well I go to a large church in a collage town. I guess the Church is on the seeker friendly side. but I look at it like this: it is God who saves through Christ. so if just a few of the collage kids get out of the party sleeping around liberal lifestyle that is here and meet Christ for the first time or meet him for real after a youth of being in church but not really meeting Him, It is doing what it supposed to.
 
Feb 23, 2014
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#8
So is the best way to operate a church to go out, ask a bunch of unregenerate sinners in rebellion to God how they want church operated, and then operate it that way?
I agree with .. forgot who wrote it …that it depends what kind of church it is supposed to be.
If church main goal is evangelizing, than it would be wise to know how to approach sinners and therefore maybe one of many things would be also asking sinners what are they seeking in the church. Meaning food after divine service (is this real word? I m not sure…) or “investing” for more evangelist who have the gift of first contact for personal connection and help (oh man I don’t even know if you understand what I am talking about…)

Or if it is or if it supposed to be…the church focused on training new pastors, than it would be also wise to discuss things with future attendants … (of course not as an first thing, first we discuss things with Lord.. so maybe the last thing would be attendants .. heh)
If it is however church like for example my homechurch (we are what you would call cult or secta) we certainly wouldn’t (never ever) ask gentiles for any kind of advice.
 
Feb 23, 2014
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#9
Oh, and once I read (Spurgeon), that nowadays in church we sadly care more about doing fun and entertainment for goats, than providing good food and grazing for sheep. (goat –pagan; sheep -christian)
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#10
Oh, and once I read (Spurgeon), that nowadays in church we sadly care more about doing fun and entertainment for goats, than providing good food and grazing for sheep. (goat –pagan; sheep -christian)
Won't argue that there are such churches, but in my experience they are in the minority. Feel good, self prosperity churches are not Biblical churches in my opinion. But, now, that may just be me.

People just need to read the various Epistles Paul wrote.............
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
38,931
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#11
i don't think i understood the question well when i responded earlier.
"church" to me isn't just a weekly meeting consisting of singing, a sermonette, perfunctory altar call, some announcements and offering collection, and varying amounts of ritual liturgy. not that that isn't part of it - but all the fellowship and ministry during the rest of the week, the 'small-group'/bible study/prayer or service meeting/praise group/charity that is done between sundays or sabbaths, and also the individual things members of the congregation are led to do through what's taught and enjoyed corporately in the larger body. i think we all talk more about "the church is not just a building" more than we take it to heart, at least, it's hard to overcome that notion of a place & weekly or bi-weekly meeting there as a knee-jerk reaction when we hear the word "church" sometimes, you know?

so for some of those other things that are part of - maybe i should say part of the "work of the church" - it may not be a foolish thing to hear input from the lost about them. if you're want to do charity work like feeding the poor and clothing the naked, don't you need to know who's hungry and who's in need? i mean, before a doctor gives you medicine or advice, he finds out the patients symptoms and from that makes a diagnosis.

thinking about evangelism, i'm reminded of this:
Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, “What does this babbler wish to say?” Others said, “He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities”—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean.” Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new.
(Acts 17:16-21)
it's then recorded how Paul began preaching the gospel to them by recognizing who they were and what they were into - because he had been conversing and reasoning with them all he could - and starting with their own idolatry and their altar 'to the unknown god' he brought them the Truth and the good news of salvation.
now if Paul had instead read them the letter to the Hebrews, they wouldn't have related to what he was telling them the same way, yes? so i don't think "seeker-friendly" is an entirely bad thing at all. to the Jews he became a Jew, to the Greeks he became a Greek, to the goths i think he would have become a goth, and to punks he would have become a punk, to the new-agers he would have become a new-ager.

but there is evangelism, and there is corporate worship among the believers. like i said earlier, the regular meeting that most people call "church" is a central part of the work of the church too. these two things have two different purposes - and it's just as important for a preacher or a teacher to understand the needs of the the believers as it is for an outreach director to understand the needs of the community. whether they should overlap, and how much, is a different question than whether missions need to be conscious of and relative to the needs of those they are directed at.