You can't twist Scripture either...........NOW IF Scripture stated: BUT HE WHO IS NOT BAPTIZED will be condemned, THEN you would surely have a valid argument.............problem is, Scripture does not say that...........Belief!
Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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You can't twist Scripture either...........NOW IF Scripture stated: BUT HE WHO IS NOT BAPTIZED will be condemned, THEN you would surely have a valid argument.............problem is, Scripture does not say that...........Belief!
M
MsLimpet
Guest
Your twisting scripture and it is not in context. Your first issue is you are quoting from the NIV which is a sever distortion of the Bible.
Your theories do not make sense...
You said,
Cornelius and his friends were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues before they were baptized in water (Ac 10:44-48). Joh 14:17 records Jesus as saying that unbelievers cannot receive the Holy Ghost (see note 27 at Joh 14:17), so Cornelius and his friends must have been born again before their water baptism.
I would like to see scripture to confirm that Cornelius was "born again" before their water baptism. This is your theory...
Cornelius was a believer before the HS baptism :
Acts 10:30-31 (NKJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] So Cornelius said, "Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing, [SUP]31 [/SUP] and said, 'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard, and your alms are remembered in the sight of God.
so if belief is all that is required, he and his house never needed HS baptism or water baptism according to your web sites, No Cornelius was not saved when he was baptized with the Holy Spirit, or when he believed, it was because he believed first AND THEN was water baptized in Acts 10:47-48.
If this were true then both baptisms were a charade because Cornelius believed before Peter ever got there.
When did the Eunuch in Acts 8 rejoice? when he believed (Acts 8:37)
Acts 8:37 (NKJV)
Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
or after he was water baptized? (Acts 8:39)
Acts 8:39 (NKJV)
Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.
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M
MsLimpet
Guest
Mark 16:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
This being true, and since baptism of the Holy Spirit is always a promise and never a command, therefore the baptism of the commission is not Spirit baptism. Water baptism is a burial. "We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death." (Rom. 6:4). "Having been buried with him in baptism." (Col. 2:12.) Is this twisting scripture? If you can argue this, then YOU are twisting scripture.
??? oh, wait, may I ask if you are Sanctified? Do you understand when Holy Spirit baptism occurs? Just wondering....
For the sake of discussion, let us say that "water" baptism is the power to cleanse us of our sins and provide salvation......THEN why did Jesus have to die?
Do you BELIEVE in the precious BLOOD of Jesus Christ? Which is the POWER to cleanse and provide salvation?
............just wondering...........
Mark 16:16 (NKJV)
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16 makes belief true, then we have a logical AND, the word "is" make baptized true, and to logical true statements on both sides of a logical AND, makes the result = true, and is affirmed by "will be saved".
after the semi colon belief is made false, therefore the only thing saved can be is false.
You can twist scripture, but you cannot twist logic.
Also helps to keep Scripture in context........... 
Colossians 2:6) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 .) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 .) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 .) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 .) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 .) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 .) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 .) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 .) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This is not "water" baptism.............sorry.............
Colossians 2:6) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 .) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 .) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 .) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 .) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 .) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 .) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 .) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 .) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This is not "water" baptism.............sorry.............
S
Spokenpassage
Guest
Mark 16:16 (NKJV)
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16 makes belief true, then we have a logical AND, the word "is" make baptized true, and to logical true statements on both sides of a logical AND, makes the result = true, and is affirmed by "will be saved".
after the semi colon belief is made false, therefore the only thing saved can be is false.
You can twist scripture, but you cannot twist logic.[/QUOTE]
My words exactly!
That's why I love the old Gospel Hymns...........like this one...........
There is power, power, wonder working power in the water of the baptistery, there is power, power, wonder working power, in the precious water of the baptistery in our church...........
Oh, and this one............
On a hill far away, stood an old water baptistery..........
It happened twice, once to the apostles, once to the house of Cornelius, it has never happened again and can only be done by Christ (Mat. 3:11), all baptism other that those two have been done by disciples in water.
Watch close what the scripture says :
Matthew 26:28 (NKJV)
[SUP]28[/SUP]For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Acts 2:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Baptism is how we come into contact with the cleansing blood of Christ, it is not washing away the filth of the flesh.
Our old man is buried with Christ in water baptism, and we rise out of the water a new creature :
Romans 6:3-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
The end of Mark 16:16 makes it clear that without faith your lost, it also makes it clear without faith there is not need for baptism.
M
MsLimpet
Guest
Once we are baptized we become purified or set free from sin/set apart from sin.
Romans 6:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
2nd question: Jesus died for our sins as His blood was the atonement or the perfect sacrifice for our sins. It is an entire plan for our salvation...if you do not take responsibility for your sins without baptism how are you forgiven? Jesus died on the cross because we could not take responsibility for our sins and he took the punishment for our sins. He died because he loved us, it is His action, not ours. We have a plan of salvation, hear, believe, repent and be BAPTIZED. That is our plan of salvation, if not Jesus died in vain. We have to remain faithful.
I would like to ask you. Can someone who is not born-again have the Holy Spirit indwelling them? There is a difference between Him being on a person and being in and with a person (in case you were going to quote OT examples).
I mean, maybe he wasn't born-again, I could be wrong(or, the site could be). I'm just quoting a site, and I thought it was an interesting point. Regardless, water baptism is not required for salvation. Saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ. Its simple, no need to complicate it and add works upon salvation, to be saved.
It is not a process by which you accept Christ and then get water baptized to be saved, but you get water baptized once you are saved as an outward expression of your faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
I mean, maybe he wasn't born-again, I could be wrong(or, the site could be). I'm just quoting a site, and I thought it was an interesting point. Regardless, water baptism is not required for salvation. Saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ. Its simple, no need to complicate it and add works upon salvation, to be saved.
It is not a process by which you accept Christ and then get water baptized to be saved, but you get water baptized once you are saved as an outward expression of your faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
Also helps to keep Scripture in context...........
Colossians 2:6) As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
7 .) Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 .) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 .) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 .) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 .) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 .) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 .) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 .) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This is not "water" baptism.............sorry.............
Read verse 12, then see here:
Romans 6:3-4 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
These both refer to water baptism sorry.
Answer this simple question, if someone did not believe, why would they be baptized?
.........wow...........ok...........sigh.........well, I have no choice other than to post this once again...........
The Precious Blood of Jesus
1. Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement
for the soul…. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”
2. Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is
no remission of sins.”
3. 1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”
4. Revelation 1:5 “… Unto him that loved us, and washed us
from our sins in his own blood.”
5. Exodus 12:13 “… and when I see the blood, I will pass over
you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you,
when I smite the land of Egypt.”
6. Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood
of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony …”
7. Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience …
8. Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter
into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an
evil conscience …”
9. Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”
10. Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
11. Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
S