Doctrinal Salvation, Really?

[Therapon]

Many years before the Spanish conquistadors invaded Peru, the people of the Inca fortress of Machu Picchu, worshiped the sun god. False deity? Of course, but that’s all they knew. One day, while praying, the Inca King’s devotions were interrupted by a little cloud that began to cover the sun.

The King thought to himself, “Sun, you can’t really be God if a little cloud can cover you and besides, you aren’t even here at night.” Like a bolt out of the blue, the King suddenly realized he had been worshiping a false deity, so the King made a royal decree that he was not going to worship the sun anymore. Instead, he was going to worship the God who made the sun. That led to a great revival among the Inca nobles, many of whom abandoned sun worship and began to worship the God who made the sun. Perfect doctrine? Of course not, “but where there is no law, there is no transgression.”

In the almost impenetrable forests of southern Venezuela lived a really dangerous tribe of Indians known as the Matalones. Their forests had natural resources that could be developed, but those who ventured in to find them discovered it to be a one-way trip. Oh, they got into Matalone country all right, but they never came out alive. However, the Indians did accept one 16-year-old American boy they called, Bruchko. One day Bruchko heard some Matalones out in the forest shouting. One was up a giant tree calling out over the forest and another was shouting down into a hole he had just dug.

When Bruchko asked what it was all about, an Indian said, “We are looking for God. We used to know about Him, but lost Him many generations ago.”

Bruchko pointed to an anthill and asked,” If God wanted to talk to those ants, what would He have to do?”
Indian, “He would have to become an ant.”
Bruchko: “God wanted to talk to us, so many generations ago, He asked His Son to become a man and He sent His Son to us to tell us about God and to save us.”
Indian: “Why can’t we find Him? What happened to Him?”
Bruchko: “We killed Him.”

And those Matalone Indians who never cry, started to weep. They were looking for the God they had lost, even shouting down holes to find Him, “and whosoever calleth upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

As I read the various threads on various forums, what I see are debates about doctrine, as if correct doctrine is what saves us. Well guess what? God doesn’t care about your or anyone else’s doctrine, He cares about heart condition. God is looking for humble and contrite hearts, regardless of the Messianic Jew, Greek Orthodox, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal or Roman Catholic doctrinal “I” or doctrinal “T” you haven’t crossed.

Most churches today teach a false gospel, a doctrinal salvation, but it’s a lie the devil. Jesus didn’t say, “Come unto my doctrine all ye who are weak and heavy ladened and my doctrine will give you rest.” He said, “Come unto me,” because salvation is in the person of Jesus Christ, not in man’s doctrines about Him.

Doesn't the church teach truth anymore? There’s no place for doctrinal arrogance in the true Christian walk, because it is a walk of continual repentance. That’s true for me, isn’t it true for you? Some teach that coming to the Cross and confessing one’s sins is a one-time event, after which we grow on to maturity. Not so, we always need to be under the Cross because the Holy Spirit continually makes us aware of how far our sinful flesh has fallen from the glory of God.

 

[crossnote]

I don't know how to get away from doctrine. Even to say 'we are not saved by doctrine' is doctrine.
And if I say, 'true, doctrine doesn't save us, Jesus does' ...even that is doctrine.

Yes, our walk is a continual coming to Jesus, confessing, being cleansed by the blood, strengthened by the Spirit, encouraged by the Word, chastening along the Way ...a relationship that doesn't fit neatly in a doctrinal package.

 

[TrustInJesus]

I think too many times people forget what the doctrine really is. Who the Word of God really is.

 

[Mammachickadee]

Son-centered vs. Man-centered:
We are all familiar with the history of the Heleocentric vs. Geocentric argument. Some even today feel they have found positive proof that the universe revolves around the earth and carry a special passion about science from that perspective (or the sake of keeping a more pure "understanding"). Whether Heleocentric or Geocentric, Son-centered or man-centered, we all hold some relation to our creator regardless of our race, religion, or credo... because we are all creation and God understands that even though we will never understand all the answers correctly we still have to submit to him as God.
Some might call involuntary submission "saved", and some might call a simple recognition of Christ as God and savior "saved." Either way they are "saved", right? Maybe they are saved from total ignorance, but unless a recognition of Christ as God and savior leads to a conversion of thought and deed and heart a man is not really saved from much of anything that a knowledge of science couldn't save them from (saved from complete ignorance). Christianity IS a walk of continual repentance, but even that can be done out of pride (repentance by definition is a turning away from with regret). Yes, we do all need to be under the cross and continually learning more about our savior... but without a proper understanding of just what we are reading when the Bible says "submit in all things" and "honor the Lord your God" we will never truly be saved from total ignorance or be able to repent from half of our sins of pride. This is why debates over doctrines is a sharpening of ones spiritual sword when conducted with a spirit of love and humility. For some of us it's about our hope in our salvation and a confidence in our God. For some of us it's a thirst for purity of doctrine. True, some can take the concept of doctrinal purity and turn it into a church doctrinal jihad from fear rather than a ministry of love (speaking from personal experience), but a simple understanding that a bond exists between us in Christian love would even things out in that fight for pure doctrine. I've always thought that the greatest rule in Christianity was "honor the Lord, your God" because God is most honored by that heart that fights for Him and still thirsts for that sincere milk of the Word without settling for simple milk. He wants His people to have ORGANIC, if you would... not just the stuff that has all "meat" taken out of it to avoid a little controversy. It's funny, though, how, for some, avoiding controversy keeps them smiling in the light and love; while others have an ingrained thirst for that doctrinal purity. I guess as long as the fight for the SINCERE milk doesn't become a bloodlust in debate for self gratification a believer is just accessing one of his many gifts from God. A continual buffering before other believers concerning our understanding of proper doctrine is what eventually keeps some of us honest with ourselves, other believers, and God (who was/is never really fooled).

 

[Therapon]

I don't know how to get away from doctrine. Even to say 'we are not saved by doctrine' is doctrine. And if I say, 'true, doctrine doesn't save us, Jesus does' ...even that is doctrine.

Yes, our walk is a continual coming to Jesus, confessing, being cleansed by the blood, strengthened by the Spirit, encouraged by the Word, chastening along the Way ...a relationship that doesn't fit neatly in a doctrinal package.

The very reason I posted this thread. The Incas and the Matalones were probably saved without any so-called doctrine at all, at least not any we would accept as correct New Testament doctrine. God is looking at their hearts, regardless of what they know about Him. There are saintly little women doing their Rosary and praying to Mary who we will see in Heaven. There are Baptists who have said the sinners prayer we won't be in heaven because God is looking inside us, at our hearts, not at our doctrine.

Of course we should all have sound doctrine, but many believe having sound doctrine saves them. That isn't true, it is becoming a new creature in Christ Jesus that saves us.

 

[Therapon]

Son-centered vs. Man-centered:
We are all familiar with the history of the Heleocentric vs. Geocentric argument. Some even today feel they have found positive proof that the universe revolves around the earth and carry a special passion about science from that perspective (or the sake of keeping a more pure "understanding"). Whether Heleocentric or Geocentric, Son-centered or man-centered, we all hold some relation to our creator regardless of our race, religion, or credo... because we are all creation and God understands that even though we will never understand all the answers correctly we still have to submit to him as God.
Some might call involuntary submission "saved", and some might call a simple recognition of Christ as God and savior "saved." Either way they are "saved", right? Maybe they are saved from total ignorance, but unless a recognition of Christ as God and savior leads to a conversion of thought and deed and heart a man is not really saved from much of anything that a knowledge of science couldn't save them from (saved from complete ignorance). Christianity IS a walk of continual repentance, but even that can be done out of pride (repentance by definition is a turning away from with regret). Yes, we do all need to be under the cross and continually learning more about our savior... but without a proper understanding of just what we are reading when the Bible says "submit in all things" and "honor the Lord your God" we will never truly be saved from total ignorance or be able to repent from half of our sins of pride. This is why debates over doctrines is a sharpening of ones spiritual sword when conducted with a spirit of love and humility. For some of us it's about our hope in our salvation and a confidence in our God. For some of us it's a thirst for purity of doctrine. True, some can take the concept of doctrinal purity and turn it into a church doctrinal jihad from fear rather than a ministry of love (speaking from personal experience), but a simple understanding that a bond exists between us in Christian love would even things out in that fight for pure doctrine. I've always thought that the greatest rule in Christianity was "honor the Lord, your God" because God is most honored by that heart that fights for Him and still thirsts for that sincere milk of the Word without settling for simple milk. He wants His people to have ORGANIC, if you would... not just the stuff that has all "meat" taken out of it to avoid a little controversy. It's funny, though, how, for some, avoiding controversy keeps them smiling in the light and love; while others have an ingrained thirst for that doctrinal purity. I guess as long as the fight for the SINCERE milk doesn't become a bloodlust in debate for self gratification a believer is just accessing one of his many gifts from God. A continual buffering before other believers concerning our understanding of proper doctrine is what eventually keeps some of us honest with ourselves, other believers, and God (who was/is never really fooled).

Wow, you are way out of my league. I just cling to the "simplicity that is in Christ Jesus." I'll have to leave answering your post to the doctrinal theoreticians, of which there is no shortage right here on this forum. <smile>

 

[Mammachickadee]

Though I admire your gentle spirit I still have to wonder, just as a person, what you actually believe at the core of your faith. That's my personal problem, though. lol I sometimes joke to myself that God made me a wife to finally learn submission as a person while He feeds my ingrained drive for doctrinal purity. He certainly is omnipotent.

 

[Therapon]

Though I admire your gentle spirit I still have to wonder, just as a person, what you actually believe at the core of your faith. That's my personal problem, though. lol I sometimes joke to myself that God made me a wife to finally learn submission as a person while He feeds my ingrained drive for doctrinal purity. He certainly is omnipotent.

Here's a short version . . .

The spirit within me gladly declares, "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." I believe every word of the 66 books of the Bible in their original signatures (as chosen at the Council of Nicaea), to be the inerrant Holy Spirit inspired Word of God. Furthermore, I believe we are all born into sin, requiring the substitutional atonement of the Lord Jesus that He accomplished on the Cross, and that there is no salvation outside of His shed blood. I trust Him implicitly, both while alive and after I go to be with Him. However, I do not believe knowledge of His sacrifice is always necessary for salvation.

 

[SeaBass]

Of course we should all have sound doctrine, but many believe having sound doctrine saves them. That isn't true, it is becoming a new creature in Christ Jesus that saves us.

A false, unsound doctrine cannot save anyone. Unsound, false doctrine only leads to false, divisive teachings.

Being saved by becoming a new creature in Christ is doctrine. How one becomes a new creature in Christ also requires sound doctrine, or as the bible calls it, "truth"....

If the reader will take the time to read John 17, one will see that the unity for which Jesus called was unity based on correct doctrine. Notice His repetitious reference to the “truth,” the “word,” and the need for “keeping” and “receiving” that word (John 17:6,8,14,17,19). Clearly, obedience to a body of doctrinal truth must precede unity.

If one desires to be sensitive to context, and engage in genuine exposition of the Word, the prominent passage in the New Testament that addresses division within the body of Christ is 1 Corinthians. The entire letter constitutes Paul’s plea for Christians to be united. The theme is stated in 1:10: “Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” ([SIZE=-1]NKJV[/SIZE]). The rest of the book delineates one doctrinal item after another in order to correct divisive Corinthian conduct. These items include their sexual behavior (chs. 5-7), their use of food in relation to idolatry (chs. 8-10), disorders in the worship assembly [including female leadership (11:1-16), Lord’s Supper (11:17-34) and the use of miraculous gifts (chs. 12-14)], misconceptions about the resurrection (ch. 15), and the collection (16:1-4).


Their aberrant (i.e., divisive) behavior was directly due to their doctrinal error. Consequently, the solution was not to de-emphasize doctrine! The solution was not to lessen or downplay doctrinal commitment. The solution was not to relegate all but one or two doctrines to an optional status. The solution is clearly stated: speak the same thing! Be joined together in the same mind and judgment! Christians have the divine obligation to study their Bibles, and to arrive at the truth on every matter that God sets forth as essential. God’s doctrine concerning salvation, worship, the church, and Christian living is critical, and every believer must come to knowledge of that doctrine, and submit to it.

Apologetics Press - Unity, Division, Doctrine, and Jesus' Prayer
Dave Miller, Ph.D

 

[p_rehbein]

Not for nothing, but there is MORE than a little truth in this statement from the OP:

"As I read the various threads on various forums, what I see are debates about doctrine, as if correct doctrine is what saves us. Well guess what? God doesn’t care about your or anyone else’s doctrine, He cares about heart condition. God is looking for humble and contrite hearts, regardless of the Messianic Jew, Greek Orthodox, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal or Roman Catholic doctrinal “I” or doctrinal “T” you haven’t crossed."

Sometimes I wonder how many of the Church realize that salvation is a "HEART THING?" In Heaven, there will be NO, Baptists, NO Church of Christ, NO Methodist, NO Church of God Anderson, IN............so who will be there?

WHOSEVERS......................John 316

 

[cfultz3]

A false, unsound doctrine cannot save anyone. Unsound, false doctrine only leads to false, divisive teachings.

Being saved by becoming a new creature in Christ is doctrine. How one becomes a new creature in Christ also requires sound doctrine, or as the bible calls it, "truth"....

If the reader will take the time to read John 17, one will see that the unity for which Jesus called was unity based on correct doctrine. Notice His repetitious reference to the “truth,” the “word,” and the need for “keeping” and “receiving” that word (John 17:6,8,14,17,19). Clearly, obedience to a body of doctrinal truth must precede unity.

If one desires to be sensitive to context, and engage in genuine exposition of the Word, the prominent passage in the New Testament that addresses division within the body of Christ is 1 Corinthians. The entire letter constitutes Paul’s plea for Christians to be united. The theme is stated in 1:10: “Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment” ([SIZE=-1]NKJV[/SIZE]). The rest of the book delineates one doctrinal item after another in order to correct divisive Corinthian conduct. These items include their sexual behavior (chs. 5-7), their use of food in relation to idolatry (chs. 8-10), disorders in the worship assembly [including female leadership (11:1-16), Lord’s Supper (11:17-34) and the use of miraculous gifts (chs. 12-14)], misconceptions about the resurrection (ch. 15), and the collection (16:1-4).


Their aberrant (i.e., divisive) behavior was directly due to their doctrinal error. Consequently, the solution was not to de-emphasize doctrine! The solution was not to lessen or downplay doctrinal commitment. The solution was not to relegate all but one or two doctrines to an optional status. The solution is clearly stated: speak the same thing! Be joined together in the same mind and judgment! Christians have the divine obligation to study their Bibles, and to arrive at the truth on every matter that God sets forth as essential. God’s doctrine concerning salvation, worship, the church, and Christian living is critical, and every believer must come to knowledge of that doctrine, and submit to it.

Apologetics Press - Unity, Division, Doctrine, and Jesus' Prayer
Dave Miller, Ph.D

One could go as far as to say that if those who tried to mixed the Law in with Grace were considered bewitched, that a curse was placed upon those who preach a different gospel, then its seems that understanding God properly is needful. Just look what happened to those Hebrews who made a golden calf and actually thought they were doing service into God. Without proper understanding, one could go as far as to say that we have two redeemers and that they both are worthy of adoration.

 

[notuptome]

Just a few questions. Does the Holy Spirit teach doctrine? Did the apostles teach doctrine? Did Jesus teach doctrine? Is there any reason that one cannot hear and understand doctrine in relation to salvation?

To believe we must have some degree of knowledge. God provides for this through His Holy Spirit. Church doctrines are not required to know Christ Whom to know aright is life eternal. We cannot however just make Jesus to be what ever we choose. We must receive Him as He is and acknowledge why He did what He did.

I would appreciate someone endeavoring to explain how one could be saved apart from the cardinal doctrines surrounding salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

One could go as far as to say that if those who tried to mixed the Law in with Grace were considered bewitched, that a curse was placed upon those who preach a different gospel, then its seems that understanding God properly is needful. Just look what happened to those Hebrews who made a golden calf and actually thought they were doing service into God. Without proper understanding, one could go as far as to say that we have two redeemers and that they both are worthy of adoration.

Without doctrine / "truth" people could believe whatever they wanted to believe, even if they contradict each other, and still be saved. Unfortunately, I find on some "Christian" forums on the internet those that spend all their time attacking the bible's authority and authenticity. By getting the bible/doctrine out of their way, they think that frees them up to believe and do as they please. (They love to call those who follow bible doctrine/truth "legalists".)

 

[crossnote]

There is sound doctrine and unsound doctrine. It's important to make that distinction and not throw out the baby with the bath water.

1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

 

[crossnote]

Just a few questions. Does the Holy Spirit teach doctrine? Did the apostles teach doctrine? Did Jesus teach doctrine? Is there any reason that one cannot hear and understand doctrine in relation to salvation?

To believe we must have some degree of knowledge. God provides for this through His Holy Spirit. Church doctrines are not required to know Christ Whom to know aright is life eternal. We cannot however just make Jesus to be what ever we choose. We must receive Him as He is and acknowledge why He did what He did.

I would appreciate someone endeavoring to explain how one could be saved apart from the cardinal doctrines surrounding salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes, we can take a concordance and look up the word 'doctrine'...at least 20 times in a posiitive sense.

 

[Wildflower]

The gospel of your salvation. Preach the word. We are admonished to understand and cultivate the doctrines of the grace of God, by the help and teaching of God the Father, and the Son, together with the Holy Spirit. Scripture, in our apostles epistles, speak to our being taught certain truths by the Godhead.

The gospel of our salvation, in this dispensation, has particular doctrines we are to believe, teach and confess. Christ died for our sins, God the Father raised Him for our justification. The doctrine of the gospel of our salvation is paramount. Why, because without it we do not receive life, the spirit of promise and holiness that spirit that is of God. We need that holy thing, our seal, our down payment, to have the mind of Christ and to know the things of God, namely the knowledge of the truth & the teachings of God in Christ.

The aim of salvation in the dispensation of grace is to manifest God in the flesh, produce fruit unto holiness and righteousness as workman & ambassadors. There is a counterfeit spirit, also being manifest in the children of disobedience and they have doctrines.

Romans 6 says the saved, eternally secure, purchased possessions, have believed a 'form' of doctrine from the heart. As children of the 'Most High God', the only wise- we are put in trust with the doctrine of life, the gospel of peace. We are to serve as a living sacrifice, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves- for this reason the verse ends 'repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.'

All doctrine is given and is profitable, when we understand God's will and His method of approaching His word for study, 'rightly dividing the word of truth.' Otherwise, we end up misappropriating doctrines found in Scripture, this is known as theology, the wisdom of men, etc. We all know who the world's first theologian was, right- 'Yea, hath God said?'

 

[Woodartdon]

It is a breath of fresh air that you statement brings, than you for having open eyes and seeing. where you insinuating that you have knowledge of a church walking fully in truth?

Many years before the Spanish conquistadors invaded Peru, the people of the Inca fortress of Machu Picchu, worshiped the sun god. False deity? Of course, but that’s all they knew. One day, while praying, the Inca King’s devotions were interrupted by a little cloud that began to cover the sun.

The King thought to himself, “Sun, you can’t really be God if a little cloud can cover you and besides, you aren’t even here at night.” Like a bolt out of the blue, the King suddenly realized he had been worshiping a false deity, so the King made a royal decree that he was not going to worship the sun anymore. Instead, he was going to worship the God who made the sun. That led to a great revival among the Inca nobles, many of whom abandoned sun worship and began to worship the God who made the sun. Perfect doctrine? Of course not, “but where there is no law, there is no transgression.”

In the almost impenetrable forests of southern Venezuela lived a really dangerous tribe of Indians known as the Matalones. Their forests had natural resources that could be developed, but those who ventured in to find them discovered it to be a one-way trip. Oh, they got into Matalone country all right, but they never came out alive. However, the Indians did accept one 16-year-old American boy they called, Bruchko. One day Bruchko heard some Matalones out in the forest shouting. One was up a giant tree calling out over the forest and another was shouting down into a hole he had just dug.

When Bruchko asked what it was all about, an Indian said, “We are looking for God. We used to know about Him, but lost Him many generations ago.”

Bruchko pointed to an anthill and asked,” If God wanted to talk to those ants, what would He have to do?”
Indian, “He would have to become an ant.”
Bruchko: “God wanted to talk to us, so many generations ago, He asked His Son to become a man and He sent His Son to us to tell us about God and to save us.”
Indian: “Why can’t we find Him? What happened to Him?”
Bruchko: “We killed Him.”

And those Matalone Indians who never cry, started to weep. They were looking for the God they had lost, even shouting down holes to find Him, “and whosoever calleth upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

As I read the various threads on various forums, what I see are debates about doctrine, as if correct doctrine is what saves us. Well guess what? God doesn’t care about your or anyone else’s doctrine, He cares about heart condition. God is looking for humble and contrite hearts, regardless of the Messianic Jew, Greek Orthodox, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal or Roman Catholic doctrinal “I” or doctrinal “T” you haven’t crossed.

Most churches today teach a false gospel, a doctrinal salvation, but it’s a lie the devil. Jesus didn’t say, “Come unto my doctrine all ye who are weak and heavy ladened and my doctrine will give you rest.” He said, “Come unto me,” because salvation is in the person of Jesus Christ, not in man’s doctrines about Him.

Doesn't the church teach truth anymore? There’s no place for doctrinal arrogance in the true Christian walk, because it is a walk of continual repentance. That’s true for me, isn’t it true for you? Some teach that coming to the Cross and confessing one’s sins is a one-time event, after which we grow on to maturity. Not so, we always need to be under the Cross because the Holy Spirit continually makes us aware of how far our sinful flesh has fallen from the glory of God.

 

[danschance]

Many years before the Spanish conquistadors invaded Peru, the people of the Inca fortress of Machu Picchu, worshiped the sun god. False deity? Of course, but that’s all they knew. One day, while praying, the Inca King’s devotions were interrupted by a little cloud that began to cover the sun.

The King thought to himself, “Sun, you can’t really be God if a little cloud can cover you and besides, you aren’t even here at night.” Like a bolt out of the blue, the King suddenly realized he had been worshiping a false deity, so the King made a royal decree that he was not going to worship the sun anymore. Instead, he was going to worship the God who made the sun. That led to a great revival among the Inca nobles, many of whom abandoned sun worship and began to worship the God who made the sun. Perfect doctrine? Of course not, “but where there is no law, there is no transgression.”

In the almost impenetrable forests of southern Venezuela lived a really dangerous tribe of Indians known as the Matalones. Their forests had natural resources that could be developed, but those who ventured in to find them discovered it to be a one-way trip. Oh, they got into Matalone country all right, but they never came out alive. However, the Indians did accept one 16-year-old American boy they called, Bruchko. One day Bruchko heard some Matalones out in the forest shouting. One was up a giant tree calling out over the forest and another was shouting down into a hole he had just dug.

When Bruchko asked what it was all about, an Indian said, “We are looking for God. We used to know about Him, but lost Him many generations ago.”

Bruchko pointed to an anthill and asked,” If God wanted to talk to those ants, what would He have to do?”
Indian, “He would have to become an ant.”
Bruchko: “God wanted to talk to us, so many generations ago, He asked His Son to become a man and He sent His Son to us to tell us about God and to save us.”
Indian: “Why can’t we find Him? What happened to Him?”
Bruchko: “We killed Him.”

And those Matalone Indians who never cry, started to weep. They were looking for the God they had lost, even shouting down holes to find Him, “and whosoever calleth upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

As I read the various threads on various forums, what I see are debates about doctrine, as if correct doctrine is what saves us. Well guess what? God doesn’t care about your or anyone else’s doctrine, He cares about heart condition. God is looking for humble and contrite hearts, regardless of the Messianic Jew, Greek Orthodox, Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Pentecostal or Roman Catholic doctrinal “I” or doctrinal “T” you haven’t crossed.

Most churches today teach a false gospel, a doctrinal salvation, but it’s a lie the devil. Jesus didn’t say, “Come unto my doctrine all ye who are weak and heavy ladened and my doctrine will give you rest.” He said, “Come unto me,” because salvation is in the person of Jesus Christ, not in man’s doctrines about Him.

Doesn't the church teach truth anymore? There’s no place for doctrinal arrogance in the true Christian walk, because it is a walk of continual repentance. That’s true for me, isn’t it true for you? Some teach that coming to the Cross and confessing one’s sins is a one-time event, after which we grow on to maturity. Not so, we always need to be under the Cross because the Holy Spirit continually makes us aware of how far our sinful flesh has fallen from the glory of God.

Interesting post. We were just talking about this in the biblestudy chat room. A man who is a "oneness Pentacostal" was itching to debate what he believes. Then another chatter pipped up and said none of us have our theology down 100%. We know in part, for now.

 

[John_agape]

Some teach that coming to the Cross and confessing one’s sins is a one-time event, after which we grow on to maturity. Not so, we always need to be under the Cross because the Holy Spirit continually makes us aware of how far our sinful flesh has fallen from the glory of God.

I think it is a blend of the two. Accepting Christ as our Saviour should be a one time affair. Once saved. Then the Holy Spirit continually makes us aware of how far our sinful flesh has fallen, and this helps us to grow in maturity.

As we grow in maturity and have a closer walk with God it becomes easier to stay on the path and to get back on if we fall off.

The examples you mentioned Therapon, I think are doctrines of the heart. As you said, "He cares about heart condition." Some Christian denominations have gone back to the letter of the Law doctrines, while others have given up doctrines and gone the anything goes way. Both are wrong.

It is an everyday walk in a relationship with God that counts. Wanting to "follow a doctrine" is a cop out as then we feel comfortable and follow a set of rules and not a relationship that needs some effort, as all relationships do.

 

[CWJ]

'And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book:
But these are written,
that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His name.'
(John 20:30,31)

* I believe it, do you?