Talking against the law is dangerous
- Thread starter just-me
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I apologize just-me. (and to anyone else)
I guess I did make it confusing - Jesus Christ took the handwritting of ordinances that was against us - took it out of the way - nailing it to his cross - that is what was done. What this relates to in the Eastern custom is that when a man owed debts his name is posted at the gate of the city by the elders of that city putting him and his family in shame. When all debts were paid, the elders would double the paper, so that all the debts were blotted out. The folded together document would then be nailed up at the city gate so that all passing by could see that the man's debt was paid in full. Jesus Christ paid in full for all our debts of sin. He paid in full for our release from the bondage of the law. He was subjected to pain, sickness, suffering, and death for us. By taking these things upon himself, he 'blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us. . . nailing it to his cross.'
And if the ordinances were something we could follow - we would not have needed a new covenant with better promises.
I guess I did make it confusing - Jesus Christ took the handwritting of ordinances that was against us - took it out of the way - nailing it to his cross - that is what was done. What this relates to in the Eastern custom is that when a man owed debts his name is posted at the gate of the city by the elders of that city putting him and his family in shame. When all debts were paid, the elders would double the paper, so that all the debts were blotted out. The folded together document would then be nailed up at the city gate so that all passing by could see that the man's debt was paid in full. Jesus Christ paid in full for all our debts of sin. He paid in full for our release from the bondage of the law. He was subjected to pain, sickness, suffering, and death for us. By taking these things upon himself, he 'blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us. . . nailing it to his cross.'
And if the ordinances were something we could follow - we would not have needed a new covenant with better promises.
I think that law you speak about that does not apply to the gentiles is ceremonial law ? yes no ? if your answer is no please state what law please as i thinks its only fair, and you can not say that the commandments and civil law and health law only applies to the Jews because in the days of mosses there where many gentiles living with the Jews who where slaves for the Jews, Gods own people where made slaves in Egypt God gave Moses a set of laws on how slaves working for the Jews should be treated fairly. thees set of laws come under civil law, ceremonial law is animal sacrifices, health law has nothing to do with either the commandments have nothing to do with civil or health law or ceremonial law, the commandment came first then came all the others, so please can you be pacific ?
But I did not ask you What is grace? I just think to say "grace is a reward" is wrong.
I also do not believe we can keep 'any commandment' without the holy Spirit - the Comforter. Grace is given to every born again believer and if you are truly born again your heart's desire is to do good and his grace is sufficient.
Grace is God's unconditional, unmerited love toward us and God doesn't just love when we do not sin - we need his love more when we do err and to help keep us from erring. It is unconditional to those who have confessed Jesus Christ as their Lord - reliance on faith in the only begotten Son of God.
It's all in how people read and understand what they are reading.
I also do not believe we can keep 'any commandment' without the holy Spirit - the Comforter. Grace is given to every born again believer and if you are truly born again your heart's desire is to do good and his grace is sufficient.
Grace is God's unconditional, unmerited love toward us and God doesn't just love when we do not sin - we need his love more when we do err and to help keep us from erring. It is unconditional to those who have confessed Jesus Christ as their Lord - reliance on faith in the only begotten Son of God.
It's all in how people read and understand what they are reading.
Look at this scripture please and try to see my point of view The Soul who Sins will Die
…23"Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord GOD, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live? 24"But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. 25"Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not right.' Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right?…
This scripture is written and repeated in the new testament too now please tell me would God give grace and love only to take it back from that person ?
God tells us that his spirit is sealed with us until the day of redemption so there for i feel based on this when his spirit is given there is no way that any harm can come your way but first you must be purified yes,
God must kick every single bit of rubbish out of you because evil and the spirit can not live together Nothing evil can enter the kingdom of heaven God says in scripture i will clean you from the inside out i will make you as white as snow, ? is he going to give is grace in full before he does this only to take it a way ?
Last edited:
This scripture is confusing to most, and it pertains to what you are saying.
Ephesians 2:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
The enmity isn't the "law of commandments contained in ordinances," that God ordained (verse 15) It should read.... even the law of commandments contained in ordinances of man made doctrines. Jesus killed the sin that those "man made doctrines" created, henceforth causing "enmity" through a carnal mind that propagates the sin. (verse 16)
If on the other hand one was to read it that these were ordinances of God that exposed the enmity, that would be correct also. Jesus prepared the ordinances that we may live, before the world was in existence. The ordinances of false doctrines causes sin, and corruption, and that division is enmity.
If Jesus said that He came to divide, also saying that He didn't come to destroy the law or the prophets, why would He have destroyed what He said He wouldn't? Did He really destroy His own Father's law of commandments contained in ordinances on the cross? If so, our Savior is liar.
1 John 5:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
How does one believe God under these circumstances if Jesus destroyed the law of commandments contained in His own Father's ordinances?
Ephesians 2:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
The enmity isn't the "law of commandments contained in ordinances," that God ordained (verse 15) It should read.... even the law of commandments contained in ordinances of man made doctrines. Jesus killed the sin that those "man made doctrines" created, henceforth causing "enmity" through a carnal mind that propagates the sin. (verse 16)
If on the other hand one was to read it that these were ordinances of God that exposed the enmity, that would be correct also. Jesus prepared the ordinances that we may live, before the world was in existence. The ordinances of false doctrines causes sin, and corruption, and that division is enmity.
If Jesus said that He came to divide, also saying that He didn't come to destroy the law or the prophets, why would He have destroyed what He said He wouldn't? Did He really destroy His own Father's law of commandments contained in ordinances on the cross? If so, our Savior is liar.
1 John 5:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
How does one believe God under these circumstances if Jesus destroyed the law of commandments contained in His own Father's ordinances?
Last edited:
I've read the OP and skimmed the last few pages of this thread.
The MO is always the same.
The Law 'keeper' uses fear, manipulation, and confusion to try to sway believers into adding to the Work of Christ in their lives, which actually subtracts from the Work of Christ in their lives.
The title of the OP is flawed in two ways:
Guys, a clear red flag when evaluating any teaching is that when fear is a motivator, it's not coming from God.
The Gospel is Good News. If someone is not preaching Good News, then they're not preaching the Gospel. And after the Cross, the Gospel is everything.
Grace and Peace,
-JGIG
The MO is always the same.
The Law 'keeper' uses fear, manipulation, and confusion to try to sway believers into adding to the Work of Christ in their lives, which actually subtracts from the Work of Christ in their lives.
The title of the OP is flawed in two ways:
- "Talking against the Law"
This implies that those who say, as the New Covenant Scriptures say, that we as believers are no longer under the Law, have died to the Law, are released from the Law, etc., are speaking 'against' the Law. This is simply not the case at all. We are using the Law properly:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. [SUP]9 [/SUP]We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious . . . (from 1 Tim. 1)
The Scriptures clearly teach that those in Christ are righteous in Him. The Law was not made for the righteous.
Can we learn from the Law?
Yes.
Are we bound to the Law?
No.
Is all Scripture useful for instruction in righteousness?
Yes.
Does that mean we have to observe Old Covenant Law?
No.
New Covenant 'Law' (which is actually wonderful Fruit produced by God's Holy Spirit) is Love. Love does no harm to its neighbor, which fulfills the Law, and goes far beyond what the Law requires and will sacrificially go out of one's way to actively love and serve those around them.
.
. - "Is Dangerous"
First, just as the premise of the OP is flawed, so is the second assertion - DANGER!!! That's using fear to motivate (manipulate, steer) others into a belief system, which is not how God works. The OP should be rejected on that basis alone. Why? Because it's implying that there is some sort of punishment for "speaking against the Law" for the believer. That's false.
The OP is implying that 'speaking against' the Law (which we don't do) is a sin, with punishment of some sort forthcoming, which implies that it's sin.
Dear believer, ask yourself a few relevant questions:
Has God dealt with the sins of the world?
Yes.
How many times did He deal with them?
Once.
Have your sins been judged?
Yes.
Where were they judged?
At the Cross.
What was the verdict?
Guilty.
What was the punishment?
Death.
Who took it?
Jesus.
How much of it?
All of it.
How much is left for you?
None.
(You can hear the above in a teaching HERE: The New Covenant by Bob George)
Second, those who teach/preach New Covenant Truth, the Gospel of Grace, are not "speaking against the Law". See above.
Guys, a clear red flag when evaluating any teaching is that when fear is a motivator, it's not coming from God.
The Gospel is Good News. If someone is not preaching Good News, then they're not preaching the Gospel. And after the Cross, the Gospel is everything.
Grace and Peace,
-JGIG
Last edited:
K
Replacement Theology says, "I am not a Jew, none the instructions God gave Moses apply to me. I am special. (Get 'em God, those Jews who could not obey you!) The Jews did not believe! They (Jews) did not have faith in You God. but I, me, even myself..do believe. I believe there is a God. He created the Jews to punish, and teach a lesson that "all you have to do is believe!!" Therefore, along comes the Christians, who simply believe, which is all God wanted all along. The law was to curse the Jews, and bless the Christians!! Yea us! (gentiles) We are the privileged, the favored, the center of the universe!!! Whatever we believe to be the right thing is the right thing because we have the Spirit in us, so we can know what the right thing is without using God's commandments, just toss them out because they were our schoolmaster, and we have graduated!!! (I thought learning was a lifetime commitment, but that's just me..oops, sorry just-me)
Wow, sounds too good to be true. Maybe because it's not true. However, it is what a lot of people are saying.
Gentiles are grafted in, to the same root, the same line of Abraham. There aren't 2 sets of rules to live by, there is 1, the Word of God Almighty.
Wow, sounds too good to be true. Maybe because it's not true. However, it is what a lot of people are saying.
Gentiles are grafted in, to the same root, the same line of Abraham. There aren't 2 sets of rules to live by, there is 1, the Word of God Almighty.
As you know I started the thread. "Talking" in the OP is the action concerning the subject. no more, no less. Speaking of fear.
Psalm 19:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Proverbs 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 2:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
Malachi 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Hebrews 4:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
"The works were finished from the foundation of the world" identifies the plan of salvation.
Psalm 19:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Proverbs 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Proverbs 2:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
Malachi 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Hebrews 4:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
"The works were finished from the foundation of the world" identifies the plan of salvation.
D
That is not exactly what replacement theology teaches. Replacement theology teaches that the Christian Church has replaced Israel. It is true that the Church has replaced Israel in some areas such as being such as representing God on earth but it is completely wrong to say that God is done with Israel.
The Judaizers teach their own brand of theology in that they claim the cross was not enough. You must eat Kosher, obey the Sabbath, observe the Jewish feasts, follow parts of the Jewish laws and some go so far as to say you must be circumcised. Replacement theology and the message of the Judaizers are polar opposites with the truth in the middle of that.
The Judaizers teach their own brand of theology in that they claim the cross was not enough. You must eat Kosher, obey the Sabbath, observe the Jewish feasts, follow parts of the Jewish laws and some go so far as to say you must be circumcised. Replacement theology and the message of the Judaizers are polar opposites with the truth in the middle of that.
K
Deuteronomy 13:1-3, "If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."
Replacement Theology needs have another look see at this verse...just sayin..
Replacement Theology needs have another look see at this verse...just sayin..