Talking against the law is dangerous

[Karraster]

....And What I said does not contradict the scripture you quote, to achieve exactly that is that the moses law was declared void, so the rest of Humanity could reconcile with the JEWS, that at that point and even now believe they are the only special children of God.

Yeah right, so we can say to Moses when we meet him, oooh sorry Bud, ya had to go through all that stuff and then die in the desert, when you could have just said "whatever God" and laid on your backside and found just as much favor with God? I mean, long as you believe God exists, right? Yeah I believe, now let me get back to telling the world that God's Laws are dead, forget em, let's party wooohooo

 

[Karraster]

"Interesting how you quoted such a small portion of my post, ignoring most of it."



He's doing you a favor. Who's gonna read a novel, come on. Spit it out and move on.

 

[JGIG]

I believe there was only one law nailed to the cross and that was the ceremonial law

Poll what laws do people think where abolished

1 cerimonial law ( animal sacrifices )

2 civil law ( law and order justice courts domestic squabbles)

3 the commandments (calved in stone by the farther)

4 health law ? ( cleanliness)

please could everyone state when they post next with what ever they are could you please just state which thankyou.

Perhaps you didn't have a chance to yet read this post: http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ing-against-law-dangerous-24.html#post1468983


There is a reason the Law is referred to as THE Law; you cannot pick it apart. All of its parts are interconnected; they all have purpose and all work together, all tied together by the Levitical Priesthood. Ceremonial, Civil, Moral, and Health Laws were all binding in the Old Covenant, and complete obedience was required (see Ex. 23:13, Deut. 5:28-33, 8:1, 12:27-28, Jer. 7:21-26, Josh. 1:6-9). Reading through the Law as God gave it, this becomes very clear. Excruciatingly clear!


Man likes to 'categorize' God's Law (in reality water it down) in order to make it seem more 'keepable'.

That's cheating.

God says to keep the Law as He gave it. That's the standard.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

"Interesting how you quoted such a small portion of my post, ignoring most of it."

He's doing you a favor. Who's gonna read a novel, come on. Spit it out and move on.

Afraid of a little Biblical context and scrutiny are you?

Come on, guys.

Up your game.

I can prove my points contextually and linguistically.

You, clearly, have only fear and insults to 'prove' your case.

Preach your religion all you want.

Just don't call it the Gospel.

The Gospel is the Gospel of Grace.

I've been studying out the Law/Grace issues (with Hebrew Roots folks, Messianic Judaism folks, Netzarim folks and other Law 'keeping' sects) since 2006.

What is the most amazing thing is that every assertion that the Law keeping sects make, when I study them out, the Gospel of Grace always, Always, ALWAYS stands!

-JGIG
(later - gotta hot date with hubby )

 

[Karraster]

People who reject "Moses Law" as if "Moses Law" was all made up by Moses himself and did not come from the Creator, but rather is is "Moses Law" as if somehow that makes it ok to trash it.

Did you know that Moses was given an opportunity to be the "Father of all Nations" when God's anger was kindled against the people for disobeying? God told Moses He would strike them down and let the promise come from Moses. Moses entreated God to instead consider what humanity would think, and Moses only concern was for God. Of course, God knew he would say that, which is one example of why God chose him for the task.

God cannot be happy with people who say His Laws are obsolete, and grace has taken their place. What do you think grace is for? It's to help you stand upright and love what God loves, and hate what God hates.

 

[Karraster]

Afraid of a little Biblical context and scrutiny are you?

Come on, guys.

Up your game.

I can prove my points contextually and linguistically.

You, clearly, have only fear and insults to 'prove' your case.

Preach your religion all you want.

Just don't call it the Gospel.

The Gospel is the Gospel of Grace.

I've been studying out the Law/Grace issues (with Hebrew Roots folks, Messianic Judaism folks, Netzarim folks and other Law 'keeping' sects) since 2006.

What is the most amazing thing is that every assertion that the Law keeping sects make, when I study them out, the Gospel of Grace always, Always, ALWAYS stands!

-JGIG
(later - gotta hot date with hubby )

Hey hottie, I'm certainly not afraid of you, even though it will be those of your mindset who will help do the persecuting in the last days. Yeah, I read history too.

 

[Zinzerio]

Afraid of a little Biblical context and scrutiny are you?

Come on, guys.

Up your game.

I can prove my points contextually and linguistically.

You, clearly, have only fear and insults to 'prove' your case.

Preach your religion all you want.

Just don't call it the Gospel.

The Gospel is the Gospel of Grace.

I've been studying out the Law/Grace issues (with Hebrew Roots folks, Messianic Judaism folks, Netzarim folks and other Law 'keeping' sects) since 2006.

What is the most amazing thing is that every assertion that the Law keeping sects make, when I study them out, the Gospel of Grace always, Always, ALWAYS stands!

-JGIG
(later - gotta hot date with hubby )

your quote looks like someone has a conviction problem to me

 

[Zinzerio]

wow its hit me all i have to do is believe that God can help me not break one of the ten commandments from this day on i am a new creation , hope it lasts

 

[Zinzerio]

so far so God woooohooooooooo

 

[Zinzerio]

Replacement Theology says, "I am not a Jew, none the instructions God gave Moses apply to me. I am special. (Get 'em God, those Jews who could not obey you!) The Jews did not believe! They (Jews) did not have faith in You God. but I, me, even myself..do believe. I believe there is a God. He created the Jews to punish, and teach a lesson that "all you have to do is believe!!" Therefore, along comes the Christians, who simply believe, which is all God wanted all along. The law was to curse the Jews, and bless the Christians!! Yea us! (gentiles) We are the privileged, the favored, the center of the universe!!! Whatever we believe to be the right thing is the right thing because we have the Spirit in us, so we can know what the right thing is without using God's commandments, just toss them out because they were our schoolmaster, and we have graduated!!! (I thought learning was a lifetime commitment, but that's just me..oops, sorry just-me)

Wow, sounds too good to be true. Maybe because it's not true. However, it is what a lot of people are saying.

Gentiles are grafted in, to the same root, the same line of Abraham. There aren't 2 sets of rules to live by, there is 1, the Word of God Almighty.

after reading my very long 3 pages i posted of another brothers beliefs which i believe in most of what he was saying, i am that blown away by it i don't know about the rest just yet.

i do however truly believe that the grace of god can help us to not break one of the commandments, but if we try to do it alone we will fail,
so many people will say, i don't know anyone who does not break the commandments, this is not a plan that can work, so what can we say to this and to these people who say this ?

maybe we can say read something very inspiring and this may help you all week to achieve it for one week and maybe in one week you feel the lords presence ? yes no yes no i just felt a few times already while i write my hope to thees people.

maybe then after one week they love it the feel the power and grace and all its glory and they become super confident and forget about the God, maybe they don't maybe they go for another week,

in the perfect worl i feel this can be done if you have to lock your to do it this is sad why go to a desert island have a 2 week break with just you the bible and some Delicious sea food, with exotic drinks too.

and then after the 2 weeks of beautiful relaxation you apply all what you did to your life,
you become a new creation yes.

lol this could be true this could be not true for m e or for you but as we strive to do it and learn gods almighty truth anything is possible if you believe bump

 

[peacefulbeliever]

This scripture is confusing to most, and it pertains to what you are saying.

Ephesians 2:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

The enmity isn't the "law of commandments contained in ordinances," that God ordained (verse 15) It should read.... even the law of commandments contained in ordinances of man made doctrines. Jesus killed the sin that those "man made doctrines" created, henceforth causing "enmity" through a carnal mind that propagates the sin. (verse 16)

If on the other hand one was to read it that these were ordinances of God that exposed the enmity, that would be correct also. Jesus prepared the ordinances that we may live, before the world was in existence. The ordinances of false doctrines causes sin, and corruption, and that division is enmity.

Actually it just reinforces all the other scripture . . . But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, the law of commandments in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace . . . . The law of the 'spirit' sets us free from the claims of the Law. The law of the 'spirit' fulfils the righteous requirements of the Law.

If Jesus said that He came to divide, also saying that He didn't come to destroy the law or the prophets, why would He have destroyed what He said He wouldn't? Did He really destroy His own Father's law of commandments contained in ordinances on the cross? If so, our Savior is liar.

1 John 5:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

How does one believe God under these circumstances if Jesus destroyed the law of commandments contained in His own Father's ordinances?

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Matt. 5:17

So the Light came - the shadows receded - and the Law contained in ordinances have been fulfilled.

 

[Zinzerio]

And also i would just like to say a little prayer that anything is possible if you believe

 

[just-me]

People who reject "Moses Law" as if "Moses Law" was all made up by Moses himself and did not come from the Creator, but rather is is "Moses Law" as if somehow that makes it ok to trash it.

Did you know that Moses was given an opportunity to be the "Father of all Nations" when God's anger was kindled against the people for disobeying? God told Moses He would strike them down and let the promise come from Moses. Moses entreated God to instead consider what humanity would think, and Moses only concern was for God. Of course, God knew he would say that, which is one example of why God chose him for the task.

God cannot be happy with people who say His Laws are obsolete, and grace has taken their place. What do you think grace is for? It's to help you stand upright and love what God loves, and hate what God hates.

Contenting for the faith. Great post!

Jude 1:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

 

[just-me]

Actually it just reinforces all the other scripture . . . But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, the law of commandments in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace . . . . The law of the 'spirit' sets us free from the claims of the Law. The law of the 'spirit' fulfils the righteous requirements of the Law.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Matt. 5:17

So the Light came - the shadows receded - and the Law contained in ordinances have been fulfilled.

"The law of the 'spirit' sets us free from the claims of the Law?" Do you have a scripture to confirm this statement?

 

[Timeline]

That’s Biblical, and it did come from God. It was not the law God gave to Moses. It can be related to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. God gives up on those who are determined to keep sinning. 2 scriptures come to mind.
Romans 1:28-31 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I cannot speak against this judgment of God either, same as the laws He gave to Moses.

I just left the highlighted things you quoted as to shorten the post. Hope you don’t mind.

I will however leave this in, because it is referring to the law God gave to Moses, and not the law of sin and death that I previously commented to.
What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.


Throw way the law and you are without the law. Being minus the law is lawless, likened unto not having a place to live makes one homeless. Break the law is also being lawless, for eventually the law will catch up to you and in judgment, find you guilty. You may not think it, but the “fruit of the spirit is Old Testament mostly in the law Gad gave to Moses. The reason there is no law against that is because the law is not against itself, it is then for the lawless. So if we throw away the law, because we are claiming salvation, then we are also throwing away the New Testament that confirms the law, and then we are right back to being lawless. God came to change us, not His words. Isn’t it nice that God sees our heart?

I get the feeling here that you think that I saying that we can sin (and it is okay with God). That is not what I am saying at all. I believe that the scripture that says that we establish the law means that by our actions we show the law to non-believers. If we are not doing the things that the law said then we aren't establishing the law among non-believers. Having said that, we do not need to do anything that Jesus fulfilled such as animal sacrifice (I hope that comes across correctly - I think you know what I mean). We are not under the law, but we abide in the law (so to speak).

I have actually wondered about the Sabbath myself. I am not sure that we were released from the Sabbath but I do not think there is anything wrong with worshipping on the first day of the week. As a matter of fact the church of Acts 2 met daily (and most likely the church of most or all of the first century). The bible does not even limit us to a day to take communion. Jesus and scripture just says that we are to remember Him when we take it.

The main point is that I am not arguing for our approval to sin (the bible does not support it). Paul is very clear on this.

 

[Zinzerio]

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Matt. 5:17

explained in its context Jesus christ full filled the law himself what this means is he did not break any of the ten commandment and so with that act he took away condemnation of the law, pauls writing confirms as much and as paul say this also is not out of our reach, if thee truly desire it and ask the lord with all your heart to help you do it , it can be done if you decide you can do it alone you will fail, ? will God forgive you for yes, I hope so because i am not paul and i feel that i will fail, I JUST PRAY THAT THE LORD ARE FARTHER WILL FORGIVE ME i will let you how i get on

 

[haz]

You ask "Any chance you could answer those questions as to how much obedience to the law is required to demonstrate the working of the Holy Spirit within a Christian?"

I could answer it if it were asked .......

See Post #415. I did ask this question. Perhaps you missed it.

Show yourself to yourself, and remember what you say when looking into the perfect law of this liberty. "For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." James 1:23-25 (KJV)

I've often seen this scripture quoted by legalists who claim that a "doer of the word" is one who obeys the law.

I see it differently. A "doer of the word" is one who believes the gospel of grace. They believe on Jesus. Hence they do not mix works of the law with grace, as that would be unbelief (Rom 11:6).

It's Jesus who is righteous, holy and perfect. And Christians are hid in Christ , in God, Col 3:3.

But for those who mix works of the law with grace, they are like the man who sees himself in the mirror ( sees that Christ's righteousness, holiness, perfection covers him), but then when he looks away he forgets this and instead sees the law and mixes it with grace, forgetting that under grace he was covered by Christ's righteousness, holiness, perfection. Having forgotten what he had under grace he follows doctrines that preach works of the law to attain what he already had when he first believed on Jesus.

A doer of the word is one who believes on Jesus and does not mix works of the law with this.

But just to clarify in case you say I'm misunderstanding you, can you answer this question.
I've read your posts claiming that through faith, with the Holy Spirit working in us, Christians obey the law. Can a Christian be saved by grace, believing on Jesus, and not have this obedience to the law which you describe?

It's all or nothing. If we are guilty of disobeying one law, we are guilty of all. This is not the same as if we are obedient to some laws, we are obedient to all the laws. Motivation of loving God so much that one desires to follow all that He has ever said. Can we do that? No that's why Jesus said "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." Luke 9:23 (KJV)

What do these words of Jesus mean to you?

I agree it's "all or nothing", as you say.

Under the law it's "all or nothing". Just ONE offence makes you guilty of ALL the law, James 2:10. Perfect obedience is what is required.

Likewise under grace its' "all or nothing". Believe on Jesus and you will have life everlasting. This means do not mix works of the law with grace.

Rom 11:6.
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Here's Luke 9:23,24
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

What do these words of Jesus mean?
The reference to taking up one's cross is referring to believing on Jesus. Christians we're baptized into Christ's death.
Rom 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

This is seen in Rom 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

And what is the result of our old man being crucified with Christ?
1Pet 4:1
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered (crucified) for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind (our old man crucified with him, Rom 6:6): for he that hath suffered in the flesh (Rom 6:6) hath ceased from sin;

Our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3.
Our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5
Christ is the END of the law for righteousness, to all who believe, Rom 10:4.
So Christians are not under the law, Rom 8:2, Gal 3:24, Gal 5:18, 1Tim 1:9.
Note, whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19
Hence we cannot be charged with sin (transgression of the law, 1John 3:4)
Rom 8:33
Who shall lay any thing (this includes sin/transgression of the law) to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

So we see that Christians (those who take up their cross daily, keeping the old man crucified), have ceased from sin, as described in 1Pet 4:1.
We cannot be charged with sin, as Rom 8:33 describes.
In other words we cannot sin, as 1John 3:9 says. And this is because our our life is hid with Christ in God, Col 3:3. God sees Christ in us and not the flawed physical being that cannot keep the law.

In Christ there is no sin, 1John 3:5.
Your OP should have been saying it's dangerous to say that Christians (with their life hid in Christ) still sin, as that is like saying there is sin in Christ.

 

[Zinzerio]

Sorry I did not put the quote, so I need to post this again.

I have a simple question for you, have you read acts 15:5? there clearly stipulate what law is the issue of act 15:10, and the resolution act 15:20

Acts 15:5

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

Ok, now I want an honest reply from you. Why you do not believe and accept this verse?
Is translated wrongly?
Is out of context?
Peter was drank?

Please give me your reason!

im sorry your words are like dirt to me now you are official on a 1 week ignor button

 

[peacefulbeliever]

OK... Time to take poll for a simple yes or no answer.

Question
Are the commandment of Jesus different than His Father's commandments?
Just quote this post, and answer a simple yes or no. It will take guts, and thought before answering.
I will not entertain explanations.

Ten Commandments - no for they are in all the church epistles. But they are fulfilled in love - that is the difference. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adulter, Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Levitical Law - yes - he broke down the middle wall of partition that separated us from the holy of holies - our individual personal invitation to come boldly before the throne of grace. He broke down the middle wall of partition that separated us from God - that separated us from a true relationship with the Father - It is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. No more sacrifice for sin.

Sorry. . . I can't follow commands - My flesh made me do it!

 

[Timeline]

Sorry I did not put the quote, so I need to post this again.

I have a simple question for you, have you read acts 15:5? there clearly stipulate what law is the issue of act 15:10, and the resolution act 15:20

Acts 15:5

English Standard Version (ESV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

Ok, now I want an honest reply from you. Why you do not believe and accept this verse?
Is translated wrongly?
Is out of context?
Peter was drank?

Please give me your reason!

I don't know...because the Pharisees said it! And then the apostles said that they should not be circumcised.