Great News! World Vision Reverses Decision to Hire Same-Sex couples

[SarahM777]

This post is flat out silly. Telling UNREPENTANT homosexuals that they need to find employment elsewhere, away from a Christian organization, in a world gushing over itself to give homosexuals special rights and jobs, is somehow not showing them love is ridiculous. Next, you'll have people demanding that Christians give up their homes and beds so that their lusts can lovingly be met.

If you do not use that same standard for ANY OTHER UNREPENTANT SIN that is FAVORITISM. And again that passage says MERCY triumphs judgement. If you show favoritism you HAVE judged them as the GREATER SINNER if you do NOT apply the same standards to couples married for the second and third time because they are in sin if it was not because of ADULTERY. If you hire a drunkard and not the homosexual you have SHOWN FAVORITISM.

 

[SarahM777]

This post is flat out silly. Telling UNREPENTANT homosexuals that they need to find employment elsewhere, away from a Christian organization, in a world gushing over itself to give homosexuals special rights and jobs, is somehow not showing them love is ridiculous. Next, you'll have people demanding that Christians give up their homes and beds so that their lusts can lovingly be met.

And you avoided answering this part

Does that mean you would deny them food,water,clothing,shelter or the means to provide for them?

 

[SarahM777]

And to take it one step further if a place picks and chooses which people that are in UNREPENTANT SIN over another person in unrepentant sin that is known as HYPOCRISY.

 

[PennEd]

If you do not use that same standard for ANY OTHER UNREPENTANT SIN that is FAVORITISM. And again that passage says MERCY triumphs judgement. If you show favoritism you HAVE judged them as the GREATER SINNER if you do NOT apply the same standards to couples married for the second and third time because they are in sin if it was not because of ADULTERY. If you hire a drunkard and not the homosexual you have SHOWN FAVORITISM.

If a guy walked into the Christian organization and said "I'm an adulterer with no plans of stopping" or an alcoholic or drug addict etc.. did the same I would fully EXPECT that Christian organization to deny hiring too.

 

[PennEd]

And to take it one step further if a place picks and chooses which people that are in UNREPENTANT SIN over another person in unrepentant sin that is known as HYPOCRISY.

Again, this is silly. You are equating denying employment to feeding someone who hungers. These homosexuals can find employment elsewhere and if they just HAD to have THAT job then they need to acknowledge their sin AND turn from it. Can't you see that?

 

[SarahM777]

Again, this is silly. You are equating denying employment to feeding someone who hungers. These homosexuals can find employment elsewhere and if they just HAD to have THAT job then they need to acknowledge their sin AND turn from it. Can't you see that?

I never said that they aren't to turn away from their sin. You leave out one thing a JOB IS PROVIDING for their needs. When one is given a job it provides money so they can have a roof over their head,food on the table,water and clothing.

 

[PennEd]

I never said that they aren't to turn away from their sin. You leave out one thing a JOB IS PROVIDING for their needs. When one is given a job it provides money so they can have a roof over their head,food on the table,water and clothing.

The whole point of this thread is to show that they are NOT turning from their sin and in fact glorifying it AND asking a Christian organization to accept THEIR SIN as well.

Are you trying to say these homosexuals will starve and have no place to live if this Christian organization doesn't accept their sin and give them a job?

 

[SarahM777]

The whole point of this thread is to show that they are NOT turning from their sin and in fact glorifying it AND asking a Christian organization to accept THEIR SIN as well.

Are you trying to say these homosexuals will starve and have no place to live if this Christian organization doesn't accept their sin and give them a job?

The problem comes in that the BIBLE NEVER SAYS WE ARE to deny providing for someones needs BECAUSE they are in sin. You can't find it it's NOT THERE. (And that's needs NOT wants) Also the Bible NEVER says we are to dump their needs on someone else. Jesus NEVER put conditions on providing for someones NEEDS.

 

[PennEd]

The problem comes in that the BIBLE NEVER SAYS WE ARE to deny providing for someones needs BECAUSE they are in sin. You can't find it it's NOT THERE. (And that's needs NOT wants) Also the Bible NEVER says we are to dump their needs on someone else. Jesus NEVER put conditions on providing for someones NEEDS.

Pretty sure this Chapter fits the bill: 1 Corinthians 5

5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I mean honestly, this Chapter is in the Bible and should put to rest your argument. May God Bless your beautiful heart to focus on those earnestly desiring repentance.

 

[SarahM777]

Pretty sure this Chapter fits the bill: 1 Corinthians 5

5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

















I mean honestly, this Chapter is in the Bible and should put to rest your argument. May God Bless your beautiful heart to focus on those earnestly desiring repentance.

UMM that passage is NOT talking about WORKING with those in unrepentant sin, That passage is about FELLOWSHIP with those in unrepentant sin. Paul is talking about discipline within the local congregation. Nice try though. If you apply that passage to employment then you better get out of your job if you are working for a non-Christian or working side by side with a drunken Christian et al.

 

[PennEd]

UMM that passage is NOT talking about WORKING with those in unrepentant sin, That passage is about FELLOWSHIP with those in unrepentant sin. Paul is talking about discipline within the local congregation. Nice try though. If you apply that passage to employment then you better get out of your job if you are working for a non-Christian or working side by side with a drunken Christian et al.

Sarah, This IS a Christian organization! It's not McDonalds or GM! Reread the passage with that understanding.

 

[SarahM777]

Sarah, This IS a Christian organization! It's not McDonalds or GM! Reread the passage with that understanding.

It may be a CHRISTIAN organization BUT it is NOT a local congregation.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Let's not and let's not persecute Christians either who refuse to violate their moral consciences as you vote for the government to deprive them of their religious liberty.

I'm not sure why liberals like yourself cannot fathom that doing neither is appropriate. That makes people like you very dangerous to moral Christian families.

Yes lets turn back the clock and throw all homosexuals in prison and burn them on the stake.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

If you're a small business owner, you can discriminate against an immoral activity but not a person. For example, if a person or persons who practice homosexual behaviors comes into your bakery and announces they want to buy a cake for their birthday or any moral purpose whatsoever you offer them all of your goods and services for any normatively moral purpose whatsoever.

If they order you to service a normative immoral event or activity such as a "homosexual wedding" and that event or activity violates your free moral conscience (a human right under natural law) and your religious conviction toward a historically normative morality within your religious epistemology (something the founders sought to protect with the Bill of Rights), then you explain to the persons engaging in homosexual behaviors looking for their immoral event or activity to be services that you cannot do that because it would violate your moral conscience and religious convictions toward morality.

They are then free to have another baker who doesn't share your worldview service their event or handle it themselves. It's a free marketplace so they can even start a bakery and market their business to the homosexual community.

This plurality works very well. It allows religious people to retain their moral conscience and religious liberty without discriminating against the person, though doing so loses them some profit and it also allows people who engage in behaviors that are historically normatively immoral (e.g. homosexuality, bestiality, etc...) to continue in their behavior and subsequent events and activities.

I don't see how imprisoning the baker, forcing him out of business, fining him hundreds of thousands of dollars in Civil Rights violations that don't wash in bankruptcy court so after the bankruptcy him, his wife, and his children live abject poverty from that point forward in any way qualifies as permitting the baker and his family to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

It's evil severe totalitarian persecution of the kind the Soviet Union engaged in upon moral religious people.

Those who vote to implement it are guilty of tyranny upon moral religious people and their families right here in a country founded to prevent that from occurring.

This demographic call themselves "liberals" today if you can believe that though they have almost nothing in common with the classical liberals that accomplished so much good in the world. They are tyrants wrapped in a false flag of "liberty" that execute severe persecution upon the godly.

Of course, religious organizations should be able to discriminate against people who do not share their religious epistemology. Forcing a religious organization to hire atheists who then undermine the organization from within does not constitute a fair playing field and deprives the organization, its founders and leaders, and its supporters their religious liberty.

I would not expect the American atheists to be forced by the government to hire Christian apologists who simply appropriate their entire strategy from within and then undermine it in society after work. I wouldn't expect abortion clinics to be forced to hire anti-abortionist Catholics who work from within to undermine the organization and after work hold signs in front of the clinic seeking to deter people from using the facility.

A societal plurality works very well.

But where do you balance out moral conviction to where it becomes uncaring to hatred for them?

 

[SarahM777]

If you're a small business owner, you can discriminate against an immoral activity but not a person. For example, if a person or persons who practice homosexual behaviors comes into your bakery and announces they want to buy a cake for their birthday or any moral purpose whatsoever you offer them all of your goods and services for any normatively moral purpose whatsoever.

Please go back and READ what I said. A wedding cake is a WANT not a need. The difference is that employment DOES provide for ones needs,baking a wedding cake is providing for someones wants.

Plus can you explain how hiring a homosexual to answer a phone bank is anywhere close to hiring a homosexual couple for oversight with children (That should NOT be done in a Christian organization) The first question should be can they do the job (IE answer the phone and take down the information) If the answer is yes that SHOULD NOT be a barrier to get a job.
If the position is that of a marriage counselor then the answer should be no,they should NOT that job.

Of course, religious organizations should be able to discriminate against people who do not share their religious epistemology. Forcing a religious organization to hire atheists who then undermine the organization from within does not constitute a fair playing field and deprives the organization, its founders and leaders, and its supporters their religious liberty.

I would not expect the American atheists to be forced by the government to hire Christian apologists who simply appropriate their entire strategy from within and then undermine it in society after work. I wouldn't expect abortion clinics to be forced to hire anti-abortionist Catholics who work from within to undermine the organization and after work hold signs in front of the clinic seeking to deter people from using the facility.

By the way if one is undermining the company or organization within from that is just cause for termination of employment. This does also go along with it,if they hired a "married" homosexual couple and the organization didn't know that they were to begin with,they don't cause any problems,they don't promote an agenda,they want to live a quiet and peaceful life but they are found out later,would that be just cause to terminate their employment? (This will come up)

 

[SarahM777]

Sarah, This IS a Christian organization! It's not McDonalds or GM! Reread the passage with that understanding.

See the other thing that is left out is as a Christian organization BOUNDARIES can be set. As long as they remain in that state that means no leadership roles,no working with children,no working as a counselor. It can also be set that they are under the supervision of a mature Christian. Giving them employment can also mean that one is cleaning bathrooms and that can be for the entire time you are there or until one changes their ways.

 

[SarahM777]

See what also gets left out is Jesus did speak about allowing moral convictions and following the letter of the law to override the law of love for your neighbor. Most people have no real idea the background of what Jesus is pointing to in the parable of the Good Samaritan.

Luke 10

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Do we really understand what Jesus is getting at here?

Remember Jesus says is half dead,unless one really looks closely to appearances the man is dead. Jesus very specifically uses a priest and a Levite. Under the Mosaic law a PRIEST CAN NOT TOUCH A DEAD body unless it's a close relative.

Leviticus 21


21 And the Lord said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people:
2 But for his kin, that is near unto him, that is, for his mother, and for his father, and for his son, and for his daughter, and for his brother.
3 And for his sister a virgin, that is nigh unto him, which hath had no husband; for her may he be defiled.

4 But he shall not defile himself, being a chief man among his people, to profane himself.

And remember the Levites are of the priestly class. Under the letter of the law they would be 100 % correct in not touching a dead body. From all appearances the man was dead. But one the point that gets missed is they were the ONLY person besides the half dead man on the road at that place. The were letting the letter of the law override the law of love. They were using the letter of the law to not help the man,which is one of Jesus points.

 

[SarahM777]

And to take it one step further Jesus DOES NOT say if the man is a Jew or Gentile,believer or unbeliever,whether the man is a thief,adulterer etc or whether the man is living in unrepentant sin. So it goes to the question WHO is your neighbor?

 

[SparkleEyes]

I agree that the issue is the fact that most homosexuals are UNREPENTANT. I'll bet they are willing to admit that murdering is sinful, adultery is sinful but most are unwilling to admit that the Bible also says being an active homosexual is also sinful.

Christian businesses routinely hire sinners (we all sin). the problem is handling people who have committed the sins with larger impacts. IMO, for those kinds of sins, responsible Christian business should only hire repentant and reformed sinners - adulterers, thieves, homosexuals and the like....those who don't steal, cheat on a spouse or practice homosexual acts....anymore.