Talking against the law is dangerous

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is something some people are not Understanding, "WRITING THE LAW IN THE HEARTH" is obviously metaphoric,

And this means you will have the law without having the law!.... in other words, the will of GOD will came to your hearth without the need of a law.

"this is why Moses law does not apply to the Gentiles and the Jews who have stopped the practice of circumcision", This Does not mean that you have now freedom to have a wicked life and say there is no law, because if you do no follow the will of GOD that tells you what is good, then you are out of the Grace.

Actually this is not true.

The law is just as active in the gentile life as it is to the jew. The law written in stone condemns. We know this, Because Paul tells even the gentiles this.

You do realist that for a gentile to enter jewish faith, He had to be circumsized do you not? This was a law in the OT. Is was not just for physical Jews.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But why you mix Christ with the law, If the law if all we need then we do not need Christ.

True, but without the law, we would never know we needed Christ. Without the law. Christ sacrifice would have been null and void for saving Gentiles

about acts 15, and circumcision :Galatians 5:1-4 English Standard Version (ESV)

Still does not prove the law is not in effect for gentiles

5 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified[SUP][a][/SUP] by the law; you have fallen away from grace.


Now image Paul did not said those word, but me, then how you will post in reply?

ok. Your talking about adding law to grace. WHat is your point. How did we get to grace in the first place. Does not the schoolmaster lead gentiles to Christ also;

I am not talking about what happens after one is saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree.

Though not given specifically to Gentiles, the Law stands as witness against us, pointing out how, in our sinfulness, we have fallen short of a Holy God:

19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. (from Rom. 3)​

There were some who thought that 'God Fearers', Gentiles who converted to Judaism and put themselves under the Law, were then in Covenant with God through the Law.

After the Cross, the Law did not give them access to God, but instead condemned them (yea verily, the whole world, Jew and Gentile alike) before God.

No one, after the Cross, will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the Law. The Law can't make anyone righteous, whether they're in Christ or not!

Then we see this:

21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. (from Rom. 3)​

The Law levels the ground at the foot of the Cross for Israel and the Gentile. But NOW, APART FROM the Law the Righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify!

That is Good News! For everyone! That is the Gospel of Grace.

\o/

-JGIG

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.


The Whole world would include Jew and Gentile alike.
The people preaching law evidently do not understand they are guilty. They have yet to stop their mouth. they keep on speaking

 

[Zinzerio]

Actually this is not true.

The law is just as active in the gentile life as it is to the jew. The law written in stone condemns. We know this, Because Paul tells even the gentiles this.

You do realist that for a gentile to enter jewish faith, He had to be circumsized do you not? This was a law in the OT. Is was not just for physical Jews.

This is true but again i must remind this law is not one of the ten commandment but i do agree that circumcise is just a spiritual reflection but in a spiritual it is when the grace is given.
And when the person is not rebellious the person has grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I just have to ask - Did they marvel and take knowledge of Peter and John that they had been with Jesus when they saw signs and wonders or because they saw their boldness? Now we can read into that and say it was because of the signs and wonders but that is not what the scripture actually says - they saw the boldness of Peter and John. Before the day of Pentecost many stayed behind closed doors for fear of the Jews or kept silent because of fear of the Jews. The point here is not the signs and wonders - the point here is the change that had come upon Peter that he spake with boldness directly to the rulers of the people and elders of Israel - no longer denying his Lord, no longer hiding in fear . . . and what did that? Then Peter, filled with the holy Spirit . . .

Thank God he loves and firgives us unconditionally, which gives us boldness and faith to trust God in all things

Jesus did not Judge peter for his denial. He did not make Peter repent of his sin of denial. He did not make Peter do some sacraments or anything for his denial.

He did chasten them however.

Peter do you love (phileo) me. Feed my lambs
Do you love (phileo) me, tend my lambs
Do you Love (agape) me, Feed my sheep. (even though Peter could not admit yet he agape'd Jesus Jesus still told him to do his work.

Peter denied three times, Three times Jesus had to tell Peter how he forgave him unconditionally and still wanted him to do his work, inspite of his sin, And inablilty to admit he loved (agape) him.

No wonder Peter had boldness. When people experience the unconditional love and forgiveness of God. It makes us bold. Because we have NOTHING TO FEAR!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The unbelievers have been condemned already if you believe you have grace if you dont you are condemned.

Yes, But i have passed from death to life. There is no more condemnation in my life.

 

[Kerry]

Y'all check out my post in [h=3]AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?[/h]

 

[peacefulbeliever]

No doubt!! Just mention the law of God in a positive format, with high regard, and saying it is good for believers today, then look at what happens. The conversation tears apart the Word of God rather than edifying one another and putting it all together. I am convinced that those who want the law changed, or want it to vanish into the past, are truly scared of it. If God is love in the OT, He is also love in the NT. If He is graceful in the OT, why cannot some see that His law is not against His own grace?

Nope, not scared of the Law - it showed me how rotten I was and that I needed a redeemer and it led me to Christ. The law never showed me HOW to not do that which I know not to do, For I know that in me (that is in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but HOW to perform that which is good I find not. Now this is how I see the 'law', i.e. the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus -

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed [HOW?] by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable and perfect, will of God. (Romans 12:1,2)
[HOW?] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, [HOW?] bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; (2 Cor. 10:5) This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: . . . [HOW?] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man (flesh/carnal), which is corrupt according to deceitful lusts; [HOW?] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind [HOW?] that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefor putting away lying, [HOW?] speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another (Eph. 4:17,18,22-24) Let him that stole steal no more: [HOW?] but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, [HOW?] speak that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. (v28,29) Let all bitterness, and wrath and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice: [HOW?] be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. (v31,32) Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; [HOW?] in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others [HOW?] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (Phil. 2:3-5) Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of god, without rebuke in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; [HOW?] holding forth the word of life . . .(Phil. 2:14-16a) Be careful (anxious) for nothing; [HOW?] in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idoltary: . . But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, [HOW?] seeing that ye have put of the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: (Col. 3:5,8-10)

I'm sorry this is so long - I don't even like long post but once I started I just kept finding more and more. The thing I want to emphasize is that now we have the holy Spirit gently leading and guiding us, and convicting us when needed but as God's sons and daughters no more condemnation - just a gentle nudge, a bringing to remembrance what you need at the time you need it.- This is the law of love, the law of life.

 

[Kerry]

Putting law above the cross is even more dangerous in fact it is blasphemy. Which one saved you, the law or the cross?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

And now because if these verses, some in here have questioned Paul's motives, and sincerity. Mercy sakes.

Acts 24:10-14 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

If we read in the remote context we see that Paul what Paul said about the resurrection caused an uproar between the Pharisees and Saduccees. So what exactly do you believe Paul is referencing when he said "after the way which they call heresy"?

 

[Timeline]

I repeat, Paul taught from Torah, and that is why he is hard to understand, and if you do not understand, then I am not to use scripture to prove my point? Report me.

So, you are saying Peter had a hard time understanding Paul because Paul used the Torah.

 

[Kerry]

The whole thing is about the cross.

 

[danschance]

Perhaps he has never seen unity before?

And I'm sure that you and I disagree on some peripheral stuff (everyone has opinions about secondary issues), but we seem to be in unity on the core issues of the faith =o).

-JGIG

Paul says we know in part...for now. No two Christians are ever in full agreement on everything. So I think you are right--again.

 

[danschance]

It could be that I'm aware of certain tricks that certain members use.

I don't do tricks. That is a silly accusation.

 

[danschance]

The whole thing is about the cross.

Amen. The bible from cover to cover is about Jesus Christ.

 

[Karraster]

I don't do tricks. That is a silly accusation.

Your accusations are more sillier than mine.

 

[ivanc0]

Actually this is not true.

The law is just as active in the gentile life as it is to the jew. The law written in stone condemns. We know this, Because Paul tells even the gentiles this.

You do realist that for a gentile to enter jewish faith, He had to be circumsized do you not? This was a law in the OT. Is was not just for physical Jews.

Great news!.....This is what I have been postulating in every post!
[h=3]Galatians 5:1-4[/h]English Standard Version (ESV)


5 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified[SUP][a][/SUP] by the law; you have fallen away from grace.


If you read this carefully Paul says "keeping the law" will be no advantage to you and you will be severed from Christ.

How old are your people? don't you know how to read?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Great news!.....This is what I have been postulating in every post!
Galatians 5:1-4

English Standard Version (ESV)


5 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. [SUP]4 [/SUP]You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified[SUP][a][/SUP] by the law; you have fallen away from grace.


If you read this carefully Paul says "keeping the law" will be no advantage to you and you will be severed from Christ.

How old are your people? don't you know how to read?

1. Will a person who truly understand the grace of God go back to a works oriented gospel? NO
2. Will a person who truly understand the grace of God and how the LAW has condemned them, want to go back to law? No. Why? if they did, they still do not get the fact the law condemns them.

Many people walk around in our churches acting like believers, It does not mean they ever were or are. As scripture says, A dog will always return to his vomit. A person who has not yet been made a new creation in Christ may look saved for a time, But they will always return to what they truly are.

 

[just-me]

And now because if these verses, some in here have questioned Paul's motives, and sincerity. Mercy sakes.

Acts 24:10-14 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

If we read in the remote context we see that Paul what Paul said about the resurrection caused an uproar between the Pharisees and Saduccees. So what exactly do you believe Paul is referencing when he said "after the way which they call heresy"?

I don't know what you mean by "remote context" but it definitely appears that the Jews (Scribes and Pharisees) thought it heresy for Paul to teach the Jews and Gentiles to forsake Moses’ teachings by not being circumcised, and to not live by the religious customs of the Jews. (Acts 21:21)

Then Paul said that in order to show that he was not doing this, have the 4 Jewish men who believed what Paul was teaching, follow through with their Nazarite vow, and shave their heads. (Acts 21:23-24)

As far as the Gentiles who believed, Paul wanted the Pharisees to notice that the Gentiles were to stay away from things offered to idols, drinking blood, eating strangled animals, and sexual promiscuity. (Acts 21:25)

Then as a Jew, Paul associated himself with the 4 Nazarite men who had a vow, and followed through with the ordinances of the Mosaic law. The offering mentioned was not a sacrifice for sin, but rather an offering according to temple worship. (Acts 21:26, Leviticus 7:16, Numbers 6:2-8)

After being arrested, Paul speaks in “tongues” Greek to the Roman soldier and Hebrew to the Jews, in order to show them he was a Jew. Because Hebrew was being spoken they listened to him. (Acts 21:40)

When Paul said that He was called by Jesus to minister to the Gentiles, that was the last straw for the Pharisaical Jews. (Acts 22:21-23)

This is parallel to the mindset of the same people who arrested, and crucified Jesus Christ. But as we all know the accusation was false. (Acts 32:29)

And finally, Paul outwardly states that he has in no way taught against the law of Moses or the prophets, just as Jesus said that nothing would be taken away from the law and the prophets. (Acts 24:14)

The answer to your question is “after the way which they call heresy,”= according with the way they call a sect.

But this I confess unto thee, that according with the way they call a sect, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:


So I have a question that I will answer for all who are reading this.
What have we learned from this story recorded in Acts, and what does the adversary fervently desire within the ranks of the church, (both Jew and Gentile) since the time of the ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ began?

Answer:
To separate the Jew from the Gentile, and separate the testimony of the grace of Jesus Christ from the law and the prophets, endorsing false doctrines of distortion, and railing false accusations toward those that teach of the true grace of Jesus Christ. Sound familiar?

Jesus said He came to divide, (Luke 12:51) and then seems to contradict Himself by saying a house divided against itself cannot stand. (Matthew 12:25) God’s kingdom, being ALL of the Word of God, is not divided, and He didn’t have any part of it crucified. Sin has been crucified pertaining to us, dividing/separating the sin from the sinner, NOT pertaining in any way to His kingdom.
If all the law changed because of the one change of the Priesthood changing to another tribe, the earth we are now standing on doesn’t exist according to the words of Jesus, and the jots, and tittles that have been thrown into never never-land will come back some day soon, like the fire from heaven that destroyed Sodom, and Gomorrah.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If all the law changed because of the one change of the Priesthood changing to another tribe, the earth we are now standing on doesn’t exist according to the words of Jesus, and the jots, and tittles that have been thrown into never never-land will come back some day soon, like the fire from heaven that destroyed Sodom, and Gomorrah.

would you people STOP saying we are against the law. or saying we believe that that every jot and tittle has been done away with.

for every time you do this you continue to prove you do not understand a word we say. how can you sit there and judge us when you continually bear false witness against us because of your ignorance or outright refusal to understand what we believe.

the law still is in effect. 100 %. and every day people are being brought by that very same law to the salvation purchased with the blood of Christ. The schoolmaster continues to do its job, and it will until this heaven and earth pass away and there is no more need of it.

Do you think we are going to be spending an eternity in heaven all being made to be under the law God gave as a curse?