Should instrumental music be allowed in worship service?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#1
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#1
I presently attend a church where singing is accompanied by a band composed of guitars, keyboards, drums, and bass. In reading a book by Edward C. Wharton, he makes a good case that instrumental music is not authorized by Jesus during worship services in the new covenant. In the old Mosaic covenant, instrumental music was not only authorized, but commanded. It was overseen by King David himself (1 Chron. 25:1-7; 2 Chron. 29:25-30). After the Babylonian captivity, temple services included singers and Levites to play the instruments, (Neh. 12:1-47). However, when the new covenant church was being instituted in the 1st century, there is no evidence of instrumental music ever being used or authorized. There are many scriptures dealing with the types of songs, hymns, ect. to be sung at worship services including Ephesians 5:19 - 20; "Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse says to make "music in your hearts". Colossians 3:17 says that we are to do all things in the name of the Lord, i.e. by his authority. If Jesus did not authorize musical instruments at worship services, than how can we use them? Just as Cain's sacrifice was unacceptable to God, do we run the risk of our worship services being unacceptable? Musical instruments were not used in worship services in the first thousand years of the Church. A cappela in Italian actually means "as in chapel". Just as baptism which was by full immersion during the first thousand years became corrupted, have our worship services become corrupted as well?
 
Elijah23

Elijah23

Banned
#2
Oct 23, 2009
366
1
0
#2
superdave5221 said:
I presently attend a church where singing is accompanied by a band composed of guitars, keyboards, drums, and bass. In reading a book by Edward C. Wharton, he makes a good case that instrumental music is not authorized by Jesus during worship services in the new covenant. In the old Mosaic covenant, instrumental music was not only authorized, but commanded. It was overseen by King David himself (1 Chron. 25:1-7; 2 Chron. 29:25-30). After the Babylonian captivity, temple services included singers and Levites to play the instruments, (Neh. 12:1-47). However, when the new covenant church was being instituted in the 1st century, there is no evidence of instrumental music ever being used or authorized. There are many scriptures dealing with the types of songs, hymns, ect. to be sung at worship services including Ephesians 5:19 - 20; "Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse says to make "music in your hearts". Colossians 3:17 says that we are to do all things in the name of the Lord, i.e. by his authority. If Jesus did not authorize musical instruments at worship services, than how can we use them? Just as Cain's sacrifice was unacceptable to God, do we run the risk of our worship services being unacceptable? Musical instruments were not used in worship services in the first thousand years of the Church. A cappela in Italian actually means "as in chapel". Just as baptism which was by full immersion during the first thousand years became corrupted, have our worship services become corrupted as well?
Click to expand...
Praise him with trumpet sound;
praise him with lute and harp! Psalm 150:3 RSV

The lute is an instrument like the guitar. Why would you want to ban the playing of either the lute or guitar in church?
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#3
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#3
Elijah23, you must READ my post before answering. I myself quoted OLD TESTAMENT (i.e. Old Covenant) scriptures using musical instruments. And you give me another OLD TESTAMENT scripture in support of NEW COVENANT authority. Give me something from the NEW Covenant in support of your beliefs. By the way, the new covenant began at the cross. Jesus Himself obeyed all of the obligations of the Old Covenant during his incarnation life on the earth, including the Sabbath. After his sacrifice on the cross, the Old Covenant was fulfilled and no longer valid.
 
B

Brackenzee

Banned
#4
Oct 17, 2009
325
1
0
#4
...What?

So because Jesus didn't specifically say we could, that means we can't?

That's a pretty flimsy claim.
 
G

Groundhog

Guest
#5
#5
I grew up in a non-instrumental denomination and have heard all the possible arguments against the use of instruments. When I was younger, I was anti-instrument, but as I've gotten older, I've seen how the arguments don't hold up, and how this issue divides believers unnecessarily and regrettably.

The argument for Jesus not authorizing us to use instruments is just ludicrous. There are countless things that have not been directly authorized, yet there is no harm in them. We are not authorized to use microphones or sound systems. In fact, we are not authorized to build church buildings (remember that early Christians met in homes or other gathering spots, not in their own buildings); communion (Lord's Supper) wine/juice must come from a single cup (because that's how Jesus did it; anyone who uses the little cups is going against the precedent); also, churches that use grape juice instead of wine are going against the model set up in the Last Supper, and are not authorized to do so. And then what about the types of music we sing in worship services? Jesus left us no information on what kind of music we could do in worship (and neither does the New Testament)--and don't say "Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual Songs" because those kinds of songs sounded totally different back then than they do now. The truth is we have a lot of freedom; we are given some guidelines for worship in the NT, but beyond those loose guidelines, we have freedom.

Another point: the use of instruments at that time in history, and earlier, is very different from our use of instruments today. They were often used for big celebrations or other events (such as the Temple ceremonies you mentioned) while smaller, quieter instruments like harps were used in more intimate settings to accompany solo singing. As far as we know they did not sing in harmony; the singing was "monophonic" which means everyone is on the melody. So does this mean we cannot sing 4-part harmony because Jesus didn't authorize it? It didn't even exist back then, so how could he? Why would he? The scriptures don't take the time to micromanage everything about worship services because we have freedom. If we are not supposed to use instruments, and it is not obviously wrong to us, then there ought to have been a command against it. As is, there is nothing condemning worship with instruments.

I could go on and on about this, but maybe someone else will chime in.
 
T

taylor_11

Guest
#6
#6
I think alot of it depends on the heart of the person/s playing the instruments. If they are playing their instruments in the Name and for the glory of God and worshiping Him in their hearts then how could that be seen as corrupting the church? You're right about there not being a verse in the new testement about instruments being used in the church, but it does talk about how they will be used when Jesus returns and in heaven. Evidence has been found that suggests that some of the Old Testement psalms may have been played w/ music in the New Testement church.

We have classical instruments in our church: Organ, Piano, and sometimes a Trumpet or a Psalm Tree - which is a violin type thing that was used in biblical times. It always seems like we have more people come the alter and pray when these instruments are used and anytime they are played you can look around and see more people praying silently & raising their hands in praise. I think that when they are used properly they can do nothing but bring glory to God =)
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#7
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#7
Hey Taylor,

I tend to believe much as you do about this subject. If musical instruments makes for a more lively church service, and results in more people showing up and participating, than how can it be bad? However, I am not completely convinced. Is there a law of exclusion? In Deut. 12:32 God says, "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it". Paul says in Phil. 3:17, "Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern". Paul in many places talks of a pattern (Gr. tupos) or form (Gr. tupon), that each church is to follow. When churches were setup throughout the Roman world, they all followed this pattern or form. You could go into a Christian church in Ephesus, or Jerusalem, or Rome, and they would all follow the same pattern. And none of these churches used instrumental music. Is the reason that North America has over 1500 Christian denominations the result of us tossing these patterns aside for our own desires? In John 17:23 Jesus, praying to the Father for those who would believe in Him because of the witness of the Apostles, said: "May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me". There is supposed to be one church, one body, not 1500 denominations doing there own thing. How can there ever be unity unless we follow the pattern that was given to us by the Apostles themselves?
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#8
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#8
Groundhog, The Lord's Supper uses the fruit of the vine. Grape juice is fruit of the vine, and is acceptable.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#9
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
23
0
#9
The early church didnt really use musical instruments because they were expensive and the churches weren't wealthy enough to have them.

But there's nothing in the new testament that expressly forbids use of instruments in worship.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
#10
#10
In reading a book by Edward C. Wharton, he makes a good case that instrumental music is not authorized by Jesus during worship services in the new covenant.The type of music in worship services is not even addressed in the Bible. In the old Mosaic covenant, instrumental music was not only authorized, but commanded. It was overseen by King David himself (1 Chron. 25:1-7; 2 Chron. 29:25-30). After the Babylonian captivity, temple services included singers and Levites to play the instruments, (Neh. 12:1-47). However, when the new covenant church was being instituted in the 1st century, there is no evidence of instrumental music ever being used or authorized. So WHY would anyone think it was to be changed?? There are many scriptures dealing with the types of songs, hymns, ect. to be sung at worship services including Ephesians 5:19 - 20; "Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." This verse says to make "music in your hearts". Colossians 3:17 says that we are to do all things in the name of the Lord, i.e. by his authority. If Jesus did not authorize musical instruments at worship services, than how can we use them? This is a legalistic, religious mindset. God doesn't give a rip what kind of music we use as long as we worship in the Spirit and in Truth. Just as Cain's sacrifice was unacceptable to God, do we run the risk of our worship services being unacceptable? Musical instruments were not used in worship services in the first thousand years of the Church. Source?? A cappela in Italian actually means "as in chapel". Just as baptism which was by full immersion during the first thousand years became corrupted, have our worship services become corrupted as well? No. God LOVES music. He created Music. Music is a tool, given to us by God. We are to use it to the good of the Kingdom:
worship, R & R, and yes, even entertainment. IT IS A GIFT!!
Rev 18 :22 22"And (E)the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the (F)sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer; shows that there will and should be intstruments until the END.
Maggie​
 
L

Leilaii425

Guest
#12
#12
every instrument EXCEPT for the triangle should be played in church
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#14
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#14
Watchmen and easygoing, This is a serious question for those with a discerning mind and intelligent enough to recognize the difference between the God centered church of the Apostolic Fathers, and the man centered church of today. Jesus said that there is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end leads to destruction. The worship of God IS serious. To take a cavalier attitude towards such an important part of a Christian's life shows spiritual immaturity. Perhaps you should spend more time seriously considering the word of God, instead of trying to ridicule those who truly love and strive for the Truth.
 
D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#15
#15
superdave5221 said:
Watchmen and easygoing, This is a serious question for those with a discerning mind and intelligent enough to recognize the difference between the God centered church of the Apostolic Fathers, and the man centered church of today. Jesus said that there is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end leads to destruction. The worship of God IS serious. To take a cavalier attitude towards such an important part of a Christian's life shows spiritual immaturity. Perhaps you should spend more time seriously considering the word of God, instead of trying to ridicule those who truly love and strive for the Truth.
Click to expand...
Right... So could you show me in Scripture where Jesus condemns using instruments?
Also I would like to know how using instruments in worship is dishonoring to God.. I mean King David played the harp all the time and taught others to do so.

1 Chronicles 15:16
Then David spoke to the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers accompanied by instruments of music, stringed instruments, harps, and cymbals, by raising the voice with resounding joy.
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#16
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
#16
If you had read my originial post you would see that I mentioned that musical instruments WERE played in the Old Testament under the OLD covenant. They were not only encouraged, but Commanded. That is the key word here. They were COMMANDED. The old Covenant was done away with on the cross. We are under the NEW covenant where musical instruments at worship services WERE NOT commanded. Not only were they not commanded, they are nowhere to be seen in the early church for hundreds of years after the Apostles set up the church. A logical person would wonder why a people, steeped in the tradition of using musical instruments in worship, would all of a sudden disdain them under a new covenant. The Apostles set up the early church using a pattern (Gr. tupos which literally means a distinctive model or form to be followed exactly), that was revealed to them by the Holy Spirit. When one considers that there are over 1500 Christian denominations in North America, there are a lot of choices in churches. Shouldn't we choose one that follows the pattern that was revealed to the Apostles? To say, Oh no! I like this one better because they have music, might dishonor God. I say might, because I don't know for certain. That is why I asked this question. There may be others out there who have an insight that will help me to find the Truth. But certainly, in light of church history, it IS a valid question.
 
D

Definition_Christ

Guest
#17
#17
It doesn't make any sense to say "God didn't command us to do something so we shouldn't do it". Jesus never said not to stick pencils in your eye, so does that mean it's ok to do so? I don't find your logic very compelling.

I read your post and you should know that the Old Covenant is fulfilled in the New Covenant...

Matthew 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus did not destroy the Old Covenant He fulfilled it. You are right, just like Paul says we are to live in the newness of the Spirit and not the oldness of the letter(Romans 7:6).
That doesn't mean we can't use instruments when we worship the Lord how do you know the Lord doesn't lead people to do that? I mean He led all those people in the OT and we know Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8).. Anyway we also know you can only worship God in Spirit and in truth (John 4:24).. So as long as we are doing that who is anyone to limit where the Spirit leads us?
 
W

Walt

Guest
#18
#18
God doesn't care what instruments your using or the type of music your playing as long as your rockin out for Jesus.

I personally want to make some techno-praise music. I think its going to be the next big thing in worship music.

Psalm 98:5 (New International Version)


5 make music to the LORD with the harp,
with the harp and the sound of singing,
 
Elijah23

Elijah23

Banned
#19
Oct 23, 2009
366
1
0
#19
superdave5221 said:
Elijah23, you must READ my post before answering. I myself quoted OLD TESTAMENT (i.e. Old Covenant) scriptures using musical instruments. And you give me another OLD TESTAMENT scripture in support of NEW COVENANT authority. Give me something from the NEW Covenant in support of your beliefs. By the way, the new covenant began at the cross. Jesus Himself obeyed all of the obligations of the Old Covenant during his incarnation life on the earth, including the Sabbath. After his sacrifice on the cross, the Old Covenant was fulfilled and no longer valid.
Click to expand...
I am not one who believes the Old Testament should be ignored. If the Old Testament says praise the Lord with musical instruments, then it seems fitting to me that we should do just that, assuming we have musicians in our churches.
 
H

happynGod

Guest
#20
#20
I grew up without instrumental music. I don't have anything against it. Colossians 3:16, I guess can be taken many ways. The first time I went to a Church that had instrumental music the hair on the back of my head raised. But I watched other people as they sung and to me it looked like it was from the heart. I think that is the main thing is to sing from the heart. I don't like the instruments because to me it takes away form the song. I can't hear the words with all the other noise. But sing to the Lord from the heart. Thats my opinion.. GBU :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.