AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[eternally-gratefull]

Ah of course, so why try? After all there is grace to cover any and all actions regardless of intent.

Don't pull this tactic on me my friend, Those words are comming from your flesh, not from God.

Why try? Who said I try? I can;t try, I can do nothing on my own. Only God can lead me, it is Gods work not mine.

Why follow his lead? Why would I want to have an unfulfilling life? Why would I not want to be used By God to serve others? Why would I not want to store up treasures in heaven so I can give them back to my savior and tell him I do not deserve them?

And again, we see the Apostle Paul say the opposite...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Actually Paul aggreed with me.

The law of death was the law which condemned him, because he could not keep it.

The law in his mind was the law of Christ, Which when he followed, he did not break the law of death.

Keep trying.

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Poor ole Paul had not reached that blessed level yet.

Nope he did not. Have you? I sure have not, and I would be foolish to think I ever did reach that level.

What, me worry? Why bother to learn from your mistake? It is meaningless because you have already been forgiven.

lol.. Again, you need to stop listening to your flesh (and your pastors) and listen to your heart. Your accusations and reasoning make no sense. You think everyone who does not agree that we are under law thinks it is ok to sin, Why bother living a life pleasing to god. Why bother learning from my mistakes??

Your only taught that we believe this, We do not. never have never will. One day you might finally figure this out, and then AND ONLY THEN, you will finally understand what we believe

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i ask you something you do the exact opposite.
you are breaking the law of christian chat which is respect other users which aso means love your neighbor as it is plain to see you obviously dont like the law but i will say no more.
if you know the law you know the bobby more which is the score.

so what youare telling me is Red Tent

making false accusations against me
Saying I believe something I do not
Saying I teach something I do not
Attacking me and my belief when she does not even know what I believe.

is perfectly fine. But when I confront her openly in front of everyone, for the sins she has commited against me, i am in the wrong?

Wow. just wow!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But wait a minute - aren't the first 39 books called the Old 'Testament' and the last 27 books called the New 'Testament'?

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

amen sis.

How can I learn if I completely ignore the first 39 books?? and through them find the hope which is in Christ?

 

[chubbena]

But wait a minute - aren't the first 39 books called the Old 'Testament' and the last 27 books called the New 'Testament'?

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

And I believe your pastor has taught that whatever's written aforetime is the Old Testament and is through.

 

[Zinzerio]

Ok, when I say it is fulfilled - just as you - it was completed - Now, if i complete a project; it is finished (just as Jesus said) and I put it to the side. No one has said that everything of the OT was made obsolete - the subject is the Law/the Mosaic/Levitical Law - the 613 rules for the flesh! Nothing is totally eliminated except the Levitical Ceremonial Laws - the ten commandments are in the NT with ways to obey them . . . There are many great things we can learn from the OT and beautiful scripture showing God's heart toward us.

I don't fully understand you first sentence in this thread but one could think that only Jesus came to full fill the law. and one could think that there is no real purpose when i feel there is.

I am just state how i see it so don't take this personal i am just stating that i feel Jesus came to show us that we can keep the ten commandments through him.

I also feel that this message could get quite easily lost when making statement just like yours. I hope you well and i hope you and red-tent can have some unity in this matter and i would love to know your views on my belief here about Jesus COMING TO SHOW US that we can follow his commandment through him. And how do you feel that was one of the main reason why he came.

In the old testament the first words that lord wrote him self where the ten commandments we know his word was written to by others but we know the only word the lord actually manually wrote where the ten commandments. God bless

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I must have said something right. How can this truth be known?!

oh?

Said something right?

how can saying something we believe, which is not true. be right?

How can the truth be known? maybe you can take you blinders off and actually listen to what we say, and you will no longer say we believe and say things we have NEVER SAID

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And I believe your pastor has taught that whatever's written aforetime is the Old Testament and is through.

is through? Do you mean done away with, is over?

if you do. I have never heard any pastor say this.

Like John you should stop listening to your pastor who tells you there are people saying this, For your pastor is misinformed.

 

[KohenMatt]

If I try not to sin I will eventually fail. If Christ stays in my mind and in my heart then Christ dwells in me. His heart becomes my heart. I no longer try not to sin, because Jesus is my strength. Get it? One is me, the other is Christ. I fail, He doesn't.

I think this is an attitude that needs to be shifted a bit in some people. Trying "not to sin" is approaching God or the Law from a guilty and already judged spirit. It's almost like giving up before we've tried.
A better attitude would be to try and do the best we can. When my son plays flag football, I don't tell him, "Now try not to fumble. Do everything you can to not fumble." The point of football is not to not mess up. The goal is to score, to do the best you can. The goal is to succeed, not to not fail. Not sure if anyone else can see that attitude shift, but it makes sense to me.

So back to practical application, instead of trying to not sin and displease God, take the perspective of trying to honor God. That's how I approach the obedience to the commands.

Again, not sure if that perspective makes sense to anyone else, but it's powerful for me.

 

[Deadtosin]

I think this is an attitude that needs to be shifted a bit in some people. Trying "not to sin" is approaching God or the Law from a guilty and already judged spirit. It's almost like giving up before we've tried.
A better attitude would be to try and do the best we can. When my son plays flag football, I don't tell him, "Now try not to fumble. Do everything you can to not fumble." The point of football is not to not mess up. The goal is to score, to do the best you can. The goal is to succeed, not to not fail. Not sure if anyone else can see that attitude shift, but it makes sense to me.

So back to practical application, instead of trying to not sin and displease God, take the perspective of trying to honor God. That's how I approach the obedience to the commands.

Again, not sure if that perspective makes sense to anyone else, but it's powerful for me.

I understand what you are saying brother, but in flag football your son is still trusting in his own legs and his own hands. I think that's the difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think this is an attitude that needs to be shifted a bit in some people. Trying "not to sin" is approaching God or the Law from a guilty and already judged spirit. It's almost like giving up before we've tried.
A better attitude would be to try and do the best we can. When my son plays flag football, I don't tell him, "Now try not to fumble. Do everything you can to not fumble." The point of football is not to not mess up. The goal is to score, to do the best you can. The goal is to succeed, not to not fail. Not sure if anyone else can see that attitude shift, but it makes sense to me.

So back to practical application, instead of trying to not sin and displease God, take the perspective of trying to honor God. That's how I approach the obedience to the commands.

Again, not sure if that perspective makes sense to anyone else, but it's powerful for me.

I can rest assured if you kept telling your son not to fumble. he would be so focused on not doing it he would probably fumble alot more, trying to hard not to. and not be able to grow and do the things he needs to do.. (speaking from experience here)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I understand what you are saying brother, but in flag football your son is still trusting in his own legs and his own hands. I think that's the difference.

Hopefully he is trusting in his coaches, His leaders, his fellow teammates.And not his legs and hands, For they will fail him.

 

[Deadtosin]

Hopefully he is trusting in his coaches, His leaders, his fellow teammates.And not his legs and hands, For they will fail him.

lol I'd rather view it as I'm riding on Adrian Petersons shoulders in pop warner football lol
"oh, we're gonna score!"
and it has absolutely nothing to do with my capabilities.

 

[Zinzerio]

I think this is an attitude that needs to be shifted a bit in some people. Trying "not to sin" is approaching God or the Law from a guilty and already judged spirit. It's almost like giving up before we've tried.
A better attitude would be to try and do the best we can. When my son plays flag football, I don't tell him, "Now try not to fumble. Do everything you can to not fumble." The point of football is not to not mess up. The goal is to score, to do the best you can. The goal is to succeed, not to not fail. Not sure if anyone else can see that attitude shift, but it makes sense to me.

So back to practical application, instead of trying to not sin and displease God, take the perspective of trying to honor God. That's how I approach the obedience to the commands.

Again, not sure if that perspective makes sense to anyone else, but it's powerful for me.

I can see it verry well we make mistakes we move on we try to become better we encourage are fellow football payer when he makes a mistake,

A football team gets a whole letter like the might of Liverpool fc Now top of our premier league thank you God.

The TEAM BECOMES UNBEATABLE WHEN WE WORK AS A TEAM. God bless

 

[MidniteWelder]

If God has written his entire law within our hearts...

By you following your own precept of whatever part of the law you think is still valid,

by your statement above...
at what point do we no longer respect his laws as if they no longer apply to us and at what point is his law no longer valid?
If you are trying to say something else my apologies for seeming accusatory.
Although suggesting whatever part of his law someone THINKS is STILL valid is an indicator that somehow the law no longer applies to a believer.
I know we are not saved by the law nor saved by upholding the law.
It is Christ alone who saves us.
Perhaps you can help me understand though what part of his law(commandments) are no longer seemingly valid.

 

[chubbena]

is through? Do you mean done away with, is over?

if you do. I have never heard any pastor say this.

Like John you should stop listening to your pastor who tells you there are people saying this, For your pastor is misinformed.

I have done away with the OT (rolls eyes)

It's a question you probably should answer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

lol I'd rather view it as I'm riding on Adrian Petersons shoulders in pop warner football lol
"oh, we're gonna score!"
and it has absolutely nothing to do with my capabilities.

Yep.

Lets all ride on Gods Shoulders. and let him take us for a spin. We will never fail when we do this. It is when we have that moment of trusting self that we fall flat on our faces.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If God has written his entire law within our hearts...

By you following your own precept of whatever part of the law you think is still valid,

by your statement above...
at what point do we no longer respect his laws as if they no longer apply to us and at what point is his law no longer valid?
If you are trying to say something else my apologies for seeming accusatory.
Although suggesting whatever part of his law someone THINKS is STILL valid is an indicator that somehow the law no longer applies to a believer.
I know we are not saved by the law nor saved by upholding the law.
It is Christ alone who saves us.
Perhaps you can help me understand though what part of his law(commandments) are no longer seemingly valid.

You must separate law from commands.

The law was something given to moses.

The commands were many things spoken of outside the law (even though many are included in the law) which we should seek Gods help to follow.

when we look to these, we will have no question

 

[Deadtosin]

Yep.

Lets all ride on Gods Shoulders. and let him take us for a spin. We will never fail when we do this. It is when we have that moment of trusting self that we fall flat on our faces.

Amen brother

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/COLOR][/B]

It's a question you probably should answer.

why should I answer it.

Your the one claiming it not me?

Have I done away with the OT?

No.

You, red tent, Karaster, Just-me, and John are the ones claiming I am saying that

 

[KohenMatt]

I understand what you are saying brother, but in flag football your son is still trusting in his own legs and his own hands. I think that's the difference.

To some extent, yes. But he is also trusting in the coaching and training his coach has given him leading up to that game. You won't do a very good job at not fumbling until you learn the proper way to hold the ball.