I Personally do not believe in purgatory I believe there are things in this world and in the spiritual realm we do not understand nor are we supposed to.
PURGATORY DOES NOT EXIST - IT IS A FALSE TEACHING BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
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7seven7
Guest
my brother, I did respond. You asked me a question and I answered it. I asked you a question though, and you didn't answer it. But never mind, God bless you and guide you to truth, wherever it might be. In peace, Charlie.You really like opening the barn door wide.Though you were not responding to me, might I share my experiences and understanding.
I was working one time in a midwestern greenhouse and commented that Catholics were not Christians and were some of the most liberal people on earth. One of my coworkers who was Catholic in her own sweet way started crying and left. As a young person full of myself I was too used to hearing Ian Paisley poking fun at Catholics without really looking at the individual PEOPLE in the churches. Now, without stepping on too many toes or sounding like I'm stating noone who attends a Catholic church can possibly be a Christian, let me state clearly that I KNOW some Christians (saved by grace alone) who attend a Catholic church for one reason or another. Catholics make up the backbone of the local pro-life group and it's Catholics that donate the most time to bake sales etc. HOWEVER, one cannot deny that the Catholic church holds some unbiblical ideas including the need for us to earn our way to heaven. They also support one of the Doctrines of the Devil "forbidding to marry" as layed out in I Timothy 4:3.
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HelenTn
Guest
Matt 22:10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes.12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
Matt 24:45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Hebrew 10:19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess,for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
According to what i have been taught, there is a place named darkness, for believers who failed to enter the Kingdom of God after Judgement, repent and cry. In terms of Priest, for us who are saved not according to sight-seeing but by faith, we are able to come to the front of God through Jesus Christ as our Sacrifice and also The Highest Priest / Mediator.
On the other hand, i just know something about Jesuit Priests recently, (i never heard or knowing them before), to be honest, i impress about their studies and spiritual life. its a lot difference from what i heard about Catholic Church in the past. I believe that there are genuine Christians from Catholic who are not follow to the corruptions or unbiblical doctrines waves which distract the believers away from This Wonderful Triune God.
Matt 24:45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time?46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards.50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Hebrew 10:19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess,for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
According to what i have been taught, there is a place named darkness, for believers who failed to enter the Kingdom of God after Judgement, repent and cry. In terms of Priest, for us who are saved not according to sight-seeing but by faith, we are able to come to the front of God through Jesus Christ as our Sacrifice and also The Highest Priest / Mediator.
On the other hand, i just know something about Jesuit Priests recently, (i never heard or knowing them before), to be honest, i impress about their studies and spiritual life. its a lot difference from what i heard about Catholic Church in the past. I believe that there are genuine Christians from Catholic who are not follow to the corruptions or unbiblical doctrines waves which distract the believers away from This Wonderful Triune God.
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7seven7
Guest
You can all see why I have fallen so in love with this beautiful daughter of God. When she talks, she talks with love. Not looking for a way to condemn others, but for a way to fellowship and share Christ. For the record, I told her that I don't want her to convert to Catholicism. Her love for Christ, and for her family in Christ, with no conviction, is what I fell in love with first. We can all learn from this wonderful beautiful magnificent girl. You make me so proud, honey, and I love you.
Where do you get these ideas from did you make them up or did an actual catholic tell you this? lol
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Cino
Guest
I don't believe in Purgatory, but the Bible does say things about Paradise and Hades. These could perhaps be called the "holding place of the saints and sinners", before the world ends and Christ comes again. At that times, we will go to Heaven or Hell.
When a person say holding place does that include time and space for a dead person?
Shalom
hello there, I know that you didn't ask me,but as far as for time and space go ...and also holding place.. there is mention in revelation something similar...
I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
its in revelation 6
Surely someone has already mentioned it ...
I m also not sure what is it purgatory, I have to google that word and read properly this thread.... Its just, your post catch my eyes so ...mm
be blessed
be blessed
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Purgatory is a place where someone goes to suffer in order to pay for their sins which were not paid for while they were alive.
It was popular belief held by the pagans.
I think if I remember right, the sins could also be made by people still alive, as they would pay the church a sum of money, and they would use this as payment for the sins not yet paid for while the person was actually alive.
It is not the same as hades or paradise, which are temporary resting places of the dead, Until they are either ressurected by Christ to eternal life, or delivered to him for eternal judgment.
oh I see, thank you, sir
So that is purgatory, I know now what is it about.. heh, its kind off catholic thing, I think
[FONT="]I believe, that we have no chance for repentance after we die, or another way, you can not with some sort of suffering made up for your life. It s too late for that. Its clear from story about beggar named Lazarus Luke 16:20-31 KJV - And there was a certain beggar named - Bible Gateway[/FONT]
So that is purgatory, I know now what is it about.. heh, its kind off catholic thing, I think
[FONT="]I believe, that we have no chance for repentance after we die, or another way, you can not with some sort of suffering made up for your life. It s too late for that. Its clear from story about beggar named Lazarus Luke 16:20-31 KJV - And there was a certain beggar named - Bible Gateway[/FONT]
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Who is the author or that chapter talking too ?
Is it those who will be alive on earth after the rapture or is this for those who have died and present with the Lord or those in hell?
Also maybe you can tell me who is the people who have the loud voice. and are those people waiting for something?
Shalom
I think this place was a old testament place where Jesus went to the gulf to speak to those who died before Him, but when Jesus rose from the dead the place does not exit, and those dead like the bible said are present with Jesus.
Absent from the body the bible says we are present with the Lord.
the main fact is that there is no such thing as a purgatory because that would make the blood of Jesus of no effect and purgatory is a great offense against the cross, and finished work of Christ!
Shalom
P
paulsfam4
Guest
The book teach how to save from sin. The book said it is by the blood of Jesus. All we need is trust in Him and he pay all the sin we did.
Not by sacrament, or else.
Can we make additional requirement? Can we make our own law? of course not.
Most human when in power, tend to full the people. tray to make more money and hypocrite.
In the history, most king are evil because power enable him to do so.
If ordinary citizen ask you money, you going to say no.
If people in power ask you money under tax reasons or to alleviate punishment in purgatory, than you reluctance to refuse.
The bottom line is money. It is exposed know, to make it look good, they may don't ask money anymore.
If this law originate from the Lord, why not a single apostle teach it in the bible. Don't they lovely people.
What happen to the people death before purgatory teaching? no body pray for them, no sacrament for them.
Are the apostles so ignorance not consider the suffering of the soul, they need sacrament as well.
As it goes for "people" , there are martyrs … those were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony … (verse 9)
Although, they are not really people, they are souls...
And no, they are not from period after the rapture ... It is impossible be saved after the rapture, because Holy Spirit will be taken from earth together with us, I believe..
There is however slight chance for those who were lukewarm and not ready and be left here, that thru suffering ... ok..nevermind
so what are they doing? they waiting ... until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled .. (verse 11)
As it goes for place, it’s under the altar in heaven ... I saw under the altar the souls ... not clear for me which one (heaven…I mean which level of heaven)
So
For sure it is not same as Hades, I believe…
And it is also not place into which Jesus descended because about that place we can read in 1 Petra 3
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah …
So ..hm.. I’m still not convinced that hades and place where Jesus descended are the same…
maybe you should ask this questions someone smarter then me ...
be blessed
I am not even Roman Catholic and I can recognize a lot of strawmen in many posts regarding Purgotory. Including this one. It has absolutely nothing to do with expiating sin. It also has nothing to do with hell as another pointed out. Your own comment also misunderstands the relationship of works, grace and faith outside of even addressing RCC doctrine of Purgatory.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Purgatory, according to Catholic Church doctrine, is an intermediary state after physical death in which those destined for heaven "undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven".[SUP][1][/SUP] Only those who die in the state of grace but have not in life reached a sufficient level of holiness can be in Purgatory, and therefore no one in Purgatory will remain forever in that state or go to hell.
Seems like it has everything to do with expiating sin. How else is one purified from sin, or reach a state of holiness worthy of heaven unless their sin is expiated.
And if yuo do not like the wikepedia defenition. Maybe the catholic defenition will help you?
The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" (CCC 1031).
It is sad to think that the purification wrought by the blood of Christ on the cross is incapable of purifying us and making us Holy
Hebrews 1 says, for believers in the Lord Jesus on the Cross, that 'He by Himself purged our sins'. This is a completed work.