AM I JEW OR A GENTILE IF I KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS ?

[Vaudeville]

You are in error, because God did not change His mind, since the Word does tell us the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world and Jesus did not teach the law is abolished.

fulfilled=filled full...do you not know that Jesus added to the law by adding even if "in our hearts" we want to sin?
abolished= done away with

Your message is a slippery way to teach tolerance of sin. That is preaching a false Messiah. It is the new wave of religion. God is love and He is merciful, Jesus paid with blood for our transgression, and taught us to go sin no more. But anyone who reads can see the Word for himself. If you love Messiah, keep His commandments.

Messiah will eradicate the world of lawlessness when He returns, the deceiver and his children, there will be no rebels in God's Kingdom.

many persuasive words. it is you who is in error and lawlessness, and teaching it as well. but perhaps you do not really know the law. cursed is everyone who does not continue to do all things written in the law.

now show me how you change paul's words and the entire new covenant message.

Romans 7
7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


let's see your twisted version of what delivered from the law means. use the greek you denigrate.

 

[Karraster]

many persuasive words. it is you who is in error and lawlessness, and teaching it as well. but perhaps you do not really know the law. cursed is everyone who does not continue to do all things written in the law.

now show me how you change paul's words and the entire new covenant message.

Romans 7
7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.


let's see your twisted version of what delivered from the law means. use the greek you denigrate.

Hab 2:4 ... "Behold the proud, his soul is not upright in him; but the just shall live by his faith." (NKJ) A righteous man, he knows that God does all things right and all things well. Running the universe is God's business, but the righteous man has a daily task to fulfill, and he will live by his faithfulness. He will trust and obey, even if he does not comprehend all of God's ways.

 

[Zinzerio]

Thank you, Karraster, for expressing what I was thinking. I am saddened by some of the posts in this thread. You are right , there is no reason to get nasty. It just drives people away who may have questions that can be answered. Why would I want to reveal my ignorance or foolishness if I'm going to be insulted or ridiculed?

I have been very saddened to but what i must not do is revert to name calling like name calling i just did before and i am very sorry
about that but thick skull is just me saying i am upset by peoples statements but im not that upset just a little bit upset but
most of time i have had people on my ignore list to keep the peace and when i give them another chance they do it again ?
thick skull is something my friends would call me when they wher not happy with me ,,and i would say back for a joke don't be a jarr head your self but as you can see that danschance and other call me a Jew and a none christian for expressing my beliefs.
But all i can say is im sorry please feel free to post again and i will keep my eye out like the clocky watchman in the tower i will watch over the peoples from now on and i will be a good shepherd
and i will have no more bad language on this thread. God bless

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You are in error, because God did not change His mind,

In the beginning, God gave man "every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of the earth, and every tree in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat" (Gen 1:29); then after the flood - "Every living thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things." (Gen. 9:3); then in the Levitical Law, he made a distinction of "clean" and "unclean"; now in the NT For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. There is four times God changed his mind just regarding food.

since the Word does tell us the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world and Jesus did not teach the law is abolished.

fulfilled=filled full...do you not know that Jesus added to the law by adding even if "in our hearts" we want to sin?
abolished= done away with

Jesus was not actually slain before the foundation of the world - God's plan was before the foundation of the world. Jesus was not slain until the day he hung on the cross.

Jesus came not to destroy the law but to fulfill - pleroo - to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full; to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally; I abound, I am liberally supplied; to render full, i.e. to complete; to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim; to consummate: a number; to make complete in every particular, to render perfect; to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking); to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise; of matters of duty: to perform, execute; of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

Your message is a slippery way to teach tolerance of sin. That is preaching a false Messiah. It is the new wave of religion. God is love and He is merciful, Jesus paid with blood for our transgression, and taught us to go sin no more. But anyone who reads can see the Word for himself. If you love Messiah, keep His commandments.

Messiah will eradicate the world of lawlessness when He returns, the deceiver and his children, there will be no rebels in God's Kingdom.

Excuse me - you go back and find one just ONE place where I said it was okay to sin and taught others to sin. You are bearing false witness - isn't that one of the ten? Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another (Eph. 4:25)

I believe we must do our best to obey God and ANY law that is in the NT is for us to obey and if you knew the NT very well at all you would know that the ten are there. (there is no Levitical Law carried over to the NT.)

 

[Karraster]

In the beginning, God gave man "every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of the earth, and every tree in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat" (Gen 1:29); then after the flood - "Every living thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things." (Gen. 9:3); then in the Levitical Law, he made a distinction of "clean" and "unclean"; now in the NT For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. There is four times God changed his mind just regarding food.

Jesus was not actually slain before the foundation of the world - God's plan was before the foundation of the world. Jesus was not slain until the day he hung on the cross.

Jesus came not to destroy the law but to fulfill - pleroo - to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full; to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally; I abound, I am liberally supplied; to render full, i.e. to complete; to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim; to consummate: a number; to make complete in every particular, to render perfect; to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking); to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise; of matters of duty: to perform, execute; of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

Excuse me - you go back and find one just ONE place where I said it was okay to sin and taught others to sin. You are bearing false witness - isn't that one of the ten? Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another (Eph. 4:25)

I believe we must do our best to obey God and ANY law that is in the NT is for us to obey and if you knew the NT very well at all you would know that the ten are there. (there is no Levitical Law carried over to the NT.)

Have I misunderstood, do you keep Sabbath Holy, set aside for God?
I am conceding here that possibly the fault is mine in not understanding your words. If that is the case, there needs be no more discussion between us, for I see it in every post you make, that the law is obsolete. Like all those who preach grace only, your words are confusing to me. How can we accept the gift and not in turn give our lives in obedience? (which is our reasonable service)

My firm position is that the law is magnified by Christ, for law is instruction, and without accepting that followers of Messiah must not only believe He existed, but to also follow His example asking for His spirit to help and guide us.

I am a Torah lover, and see Messiah all through it, and the new writings agree with the old. He is the promise. When the 2 sticks are joined we will have love of all God's law and Messiah as our King which we will obey and confess Him as Lord over us and act accordingly.

The priesthood is changed, but it is presumptuous of us to say what will and will not be, for we are not told specifically. That too, is a test in my determination. For some will say all bets are off because of that 1 thing, while others see what they can do and not focus on what they can't do.

A play on words, "slain from the foundation of the world" your quite condescending in that you feel you must reiterate He was not actually slain until the cross. How elementary. You do not understand time is of no consequence to our Maker? That it was determined the exact hour of Messiah's death on the tree, from the beginning of the world? And it is also known by Him who is blotted out of His Book of Life on Judgement Day. How short a life on earth, but a whisper compared to eternity.

How can 2 walk together unless they agree? I am not here to argue, but to fellowship, and to study the Word.

 

[Vaudeville]

Hab 2:4 ... "Behold the proud, his soul is not upright in him; but the just shall live by his faith." (NKJ) A righteous man, he knows that God does all things right and all things well. Running the universe is God's business, but the righteous man has a daily task to fulfill, and he will live by his faithfulness. He will trust and obey, even if he does not comprehend all of God's ways.

more impressive speeches. why don't you understand God's ways?
it is those who know secretly in their hearts they do rely on works of the law and not on Jesus Christ who is the end of the law for righteousness, who are proud (hypocrites).

evidence abounds in the postering and claims of obedience to altered ceremonial commandments from a covenant with a curse (which is not only obsolete and superceded by a better covevant), you claimed for yourself the covenant with israel after egypt was yours ("we" you said, since you think you're grafted into some modified form of that covenant). so you take a little here and there from sinai, even though the entire foundation for obedience to that covenant hasn't existed for 2000 years.

if your message is primarily your obedience to pet portions of an obsolete covenant that was never made with you (and it is), rather than the message about Jesus Christ (the fulfillment of the law and prophets), your religion simply makes you feel good (proud) and gives you something to boast about.

were you planning to explain to the Lord's church how God surely couldn't have intended greek "thought". and how the church has misunderstood κατηργήθημεν (katērgēthēmen)? no doubt your rabbinic antimissionaries have much to say.

 

[Vaudeville]

Have I misunderstood, do you keep Sabbath Holy, set aside for God?

why ask her that when you don't either.

 

[Zinzerio]

No one said that being a JEW is bad, is Just that paul Said if you get circumcised you need to obey all the law, and the ones that wanted to be circumcised were the Jews.
As a concecuence if you want to obey the law of Moses for any reason you need to circumcise in the flesh, this is absolutely clear in Paula writings.

You want to work around this saying that circumcision in the heart is a substitute, This was not the intention of Paul words. Is clear that circumcision of the heart means grace, and grace mean live without the "law of moses".

To probe my point that the law has no effect for the gentiles, lets study the law of tithing!

Who the gentiles will pay tithing and who the Jew Christians will Pay tithing?

The gentiles will not be able to pay to the Levites!
and the Jew Christians will have to pay to the Levites.
So no one have to pay tithing to the christian church.

Are you able to show your ideas about this.

Ok did you look at my post 787 as you see that verse 1 John 3:21 it says if our hearts do not condemn us we have confidence befor
God.

The way in which i am seeing this is this. As we know the law has been written on our heart and if we abide to it (it does not condemn us do you see what i am trying to say here ?. if we dont abide to it our hearts will become heavy in laden and that is when we see this look here Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

 

[Grandpa]

How can we fellowship when some have submitted to His Righteousness Apart from the Law and some have not??? Of course you want fellowship. You want to bring people back into the bondage that you yourself are in. You don't like the Liberty that is in the Lord at all, nor anyone who has it. Its abundantly obvious.

Romans 3:21-31
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Don't you know that He is Good?

 

[Karraster]

more impressive speeches. why don't you understand God's ways?
it is those who know secretly in their hearts they do rely on works of the law and not on Jesus Christ who is the end of the law for righteousness, who are proud (hypocrites).

evidence abounds in the postering and claims of obedience to altered ceremonial commandments from a covenant with a curse (which is not only obsolete and superceded by a better covevant), you claimed for yourself the covenant with israel after egypt was yours ("we" you said, since you think you're grafted into some modified form of that covenant). so you take a little here and there from sinai, even though the entire foundation for obedience to that covenant hasn't existed for 2000 years.

if your message is primarily your obedience to pet portions of an obsolete covenant that was never made with you (and it is), rather than the message about Jesus Christ (the fulfillment of the law and prophets), your religion simply makes you feel good (proud) and gives you something to boast about.

were you planning to explain to the Lord's church how God surely couldn't have intended greek "thought". and how the church has misunderstood κατηργήθημεν (katērgēthēmen)? no doubt your rabbinic antimissionaries have much to say.

The promise was to the Jew first and then the gentile, and it is the same promise, the same root of Jesse, Messiah Yeshua, who was Himself on earth a rabbi who taught in the synagog. Let that sink in a minute......Jesus was a rabbi. Don't tell anyone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The promise was to the Jew first and then the gentile, and it is the same promise, the same root of Jesse, Messiah Yeshua, who was Himself on earth a rabbi who taught in the synagog. Let that sink in a minute......Jesus was a rabbi. Don't tell anyone.

Well considering the law and prophets lead to Christ. I would hope he was a Rabbi, He would not know much about himself if he did not study and become a teacher of those things.

 

[Vaudeville]

The promise was to the Jew first and then the gentile, and it is the same promise, the same root of Jesse, Messiah Yeshua, who was Himself on earth a rabbi who taught in the synagog. Let that sink in a minute......Jesus was a rabbi. Don't tell anyone.

so was paul in his old life. yet in your great pride in your new found religion your refer to rabbi shaul. is that obedience to Messiah Yeshua? keeping his words? apparently his words aren't as important as your religion.

Matthew 23
8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.

as well, the promise was life eternal. not becoming a hebrew. you talk too much. go learn.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Have I misunderstood, do you keep Sabbath Holy, set aside for God?
I am conceding here that possibly the fault is mine in not understanding your words. If that is the case, there needs be no more discussion between us, for I see it in every post you make, that the law is obsolete. Like all those who preach grace only, your words are confusing to me. How can we accept the gift and not in turn give our lives in obedience? (which is our reasonable service)

So you are not going to address how God changes his mind?

Depends on what you mean by 'Sabbath' . . . The Hebrew word 'Sabbath' means 'rest' - Remember the Rest day by keeping it holy. - how do I do that: six days you shall labor and do all your work but the seventh day is a Rest to the LORD your God. . . . just as God rested from all his work on the 'Sabbath'.

I believe I have said all along they have been fulfilled - (to specify: not all has been fulfilled) I have said that any ANY law that is carried over to the NT is viable which if you know the NT - all 10 are there. I do believe that we are saved by grace through our faith in Jesus Christ. Am I saved because I keep the Law? NO, absolutely not, for if I fail in one I fail in all. Do I need to obey the law to secure my righteousness? NO - my faith in Christ has made me righteous - NOTHING I do can secure my standing in Christ. I am God's child, born again of His Spirit. Now out of my love for God and my faith in Jesus Christ, I endeavor to obey the instructions God has set before me and if you knew the NT you would know that the NT echoes the OT, the NT brings to light the OT. So when the OT said 'do not steal' and it shows up in the NT (Eph. 2:28) then that law/command remains.

My firm position is that the law is magnified by Christ, for law is instruction, and without accepting that followers of Messiah must not only believe He existed, but to also follow His example asking for His spirit to help and guide us.

My firm position is that the law was a shadow of things to come and is now more of a shadow with the coming of Christ for he is light and has brought to light those things that were foreshadows of his coming. I believe that ALL scripture is instruction for righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect [mature], thoroughly - furnished through and through unto all good works.

I am a Torah lover, and see Messiah all through it, and the new writings agree with the old. He is the promise. When the 2 sticks are joined we will have love of all God's law and Messiah as our King which we will obey and confess Him as Lord over us and act accordingly.

I believe the OT was written for our learning. I believe that Jesus Christ is interwoven throughout scripture from Genesis 3:15 to Revelations.

The priesthood is changed, but it is presumptuous of us to say what will and will not be, for we are not told specifically. That too, is a test in my determination. For some will say all bets are off because of that 1 thing, while others see what they can do and not focus on what they can't do.

A play on words, "slain from the foundation of the world" your quite condescending in that you feel you must reiterate He was not actually slain until the cross. How elementary. You do not understand time is of no consequence to our Maker? That it was determined the exact hour of Messiah's death on the tree, from the beginning of the world? And it is also known by Him who is blotted out of His Book of Life on Judgement Day. How short a life on earth, but a whisper compared to eternity.

How can 2 walk together unless they agree? I am not here to argue, but to fellowship, and to study the Word.

Being condescending did not even enter my mind when I said what I said - I was actually serious. Time must be of some consequences to God or the Feast would not have been set up at certain times and seasons. He also knows the time our Lord will return and receive those that are his.

I will have to say from reading your post and I mean no disrespect but you have also been condescending and argumentative and I think that is why some of the responses to you and others have grown to be very unchristian. Don't you think that we who believe that the Law for righteousness has been fulfilled by Christ get tired of being called "lawless", and being told "we live life as we want to" - when that is a total misrepresentation of how it is? I believe all here have admitted that they live to obey God through their love for God and Christ not because of a set of laws. That the law written on their hearts will be obeyed by them because of their love for God - obedience is obedience however we may state it differently.

 

[Vaudeville]

The promise was to the Jew first and then the gentile, and it is the same promise, the same root of Jesse, Messiah Yeshua, who was Himself on earth a rabbi who taught in the synagog. Let that sink in a minute......Jesus was a rabbi. Don't tell anyone.

he taught unregenerate and often hostile people from israel, in their synagogues. to save them. but the synagogue for you is holy no doubt.

 

[Vaudeville]

I am a Torah lover, and see Messiah all through it, and the new writings agree with the old. He is the promise. When the 2 sticks are joined we will have love of all God's law and Messiah as our King which we will obey and confess Him as Lord over us and act accordingly.

what are you talking about? you're 200o years behind. you're not either of those sticks.
they were joined in Christ's day. neither of them involved you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you are not going to address how God changes his mind?

Depends on what you mean by 'Sabbath' . . . The Hebrew word 'Sabbath' means 'rest' - Remember the Rest day by keeping it holy. - how do I do that: six days you shall labor and do all your work but the seventh day is a Rest to the LORD your God. . . . just as God rested from all his work on the 'Sabbath'.

I believe I have said all along they have been fulfilled - (to specify: not all has been fulfilled) I have said that any ANY law that is carried over to the NT is viable which if you know the NT - all 10 are there. I do believe that we are saved by grace through our faith in Jesus Christ. Am I saved because I keep the Law? NO, absolutely not, for if I fail in one I fail in all. Do I need to obey the law to secure my righteousness? NO - my faith in Christ has made me righteous - NOTHING I do can secure my standing in Christ. I am God's child, born again of His Spirit. Now out of my love for God and my faith in Jesus Christ, I endeavor to obey the instructions God has set before me and if you knew the NT you would know that the NT echoes the OT, the NT brings to light the OT. So when the OT said 'do not steal' and it shows up in the NT (Eph. 2:28) then that law/command remains.

My firm position is that the law was a shadow of things to come and is now more of a shadow with the coming of Christ for he is light and has brought to light those things that were foreshadows of his coming. I believe that ALL scripture is instruction for righteousness so that the man of God may be perfect [mature], thoroughly - furnished through and through unto all good works.

I believe the OT was written for our learning. I believe that Jesus Christ is interwoven throughout scripture from Genesis 3:15 to Revelations.

Being condescending did not even enter my mind when I said what I said - I was actually serious. Time must be of some consequences to God or the Feast would not have been set up at certain times and seasons. He also knows the time our Lord will return and receive those that are his.

I will have to say from reading your post and I mean no disrespect but you have also been condescending and argumentative and I think that is why some of the responses to you and others have grown to be very unchristian. Don't you think that we who believe that the Law for righteousness has been fulfilled by Christ get tired of being called "lawless", and being told "we live life as we want to" - when that is a total misrepresentation of how it is? I believe all here have admitted that they live to obey God through their love for God and Christ not because of a set of laws. That the law written on their hearts will be obeyed by them because of their love for God - obedience is obedience however we may state it differently.

I think we all need to ask this.

How can the law (minister of death and condemnation) walk hand in hand with Grace (minister of life and salvation) when they are apposed to each other.

 

[Vaudeville]

I think we all need to ask this.

How can the law (minister of death and condemnation) walk hand in hand with Grace (minister of life and salvation) when they are apposed to each other.

i don't believe the law is opposed to grace and neither did paul. the problem (as you have posted elsewhere) is man. that includes regenerate man. but some here think the new birth was so they could revive mosaic ceremonial observances minus the censure (curses). how wrong they are.
i wonder if they understand james? these people will always criticize the christian churches, like the gnostics and galatian false teachers they'll claim they have the truth about what God desires. they learned it from antichristian sources.

 

[Zinzerio]

he taught unregenerate and often hostile people from israel, in their synagogues. to save them. but the synagogue for you is holy no doubt.

please remember to respect jews as you know God has made no distinction between gentile and Jew

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i don't believe the law is opposed to grace and neither did paul. the problem (as you have posted elsewhere) is man. that includes regenerate man. but some here think the new birth was so they could revive mosaic cermonial observances without censure. how wrong they are.

i wonder if they understand james?

I would agree that they are only not apposed to each other as one is supposed to lead us to the other.

But they are apposed to each other when someone attempts to place them side by side to live their christian life.

 

[Zinzerio]

I think we all need to ask this.

How can the law (minister of death and condemnation) walk hand in hand with Grace (minister of life and salvation) when they are apposed to each other.

what do you think of post 808 that clearly say that we do become condemned ?