Dr. Charles Stanley

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
But being placed under the leadership of Moses (into Moses) did not equal Salvation, where placed into Christ does equal Salvation. Perhaps that is part of what it means by this verse:
Yes, I am using it is an example.

Just as they were baptized INTO moses.

we are baptized INTO christ.

No water involved in either case..


Hebrews 7:22 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] So Jesus has also become the guarantee of a better covenant.

You might add to that no immersion in water comment:

1 Peter 3:20 (GW)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] They are like those who disobeyed long ago in the days of Noah when God waited patiently while Noah built the ship. In this ship a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.
Yes I agree
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
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what do you think it means to be immersed into??

Does it say they were baptized INTO MOSES or not.

You do understand the laws of language between a verb and the subject do you not?

Baptize is the verb, Moses is the subject.


what else could it mean?
Baptizo means "immersed" or "dunked" but it does not however say what one is baptized into, it must come from the context, now either all those people were literally dunked or immersed into Moses (and if they were, maybe you could explain to me how they all fit) or it was figurative.

Psalm 50:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills.

was the cattle on the one thousand and first hill not Gods? or was the thousand hills figurative?, Ill go with the figurative.
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
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Scripture says they were BAPTIZED (verb to be fully immersed, overwhelemed, or placed into) Moses.

Why would you take a literal things and make it a symbole. when we are not directed to?

How was abraham saved, when was he baptised?
And yes, He was baptized into CHrist. or else he is not in heaven

Again, if it was not figurative, then explain to me how all these people fit into Moses when they were immersed into him?
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
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You might add to that no immersion in water comment:

1 Peter 3:20 (GW)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] They are like those who disobeyed long ago in the days of Noah when God waited patiently while Noah built the ship. In this ship a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.
You might also quote the rest the next verse to get the full context :

1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP] There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

it is "water" here, the antitype that "now saves us"
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Baptizo means "immersed" or "dunked" but it does not however say what one is baptized into,
Your 100 % right. Except it can also mean overwhelmed, ie, CHrist was overwhelmes with the calamity of his work of the cross (his baptism)

it must come from the context, now either all those people were literally dunked or immersed into Moses (and if they were, maybe you could explain to me how they all fit) or it was figurative.
They were literally immersed into moses. He was 100 the head, and they were 100 % under him.

vs, Being dipped (bapto) into moses. which would mean he was not placed 100 % over him.


And context has nothing to do with it.

It says they were batised (immersed into. Place into) moses.

Moses is the subject of the verb baptizo. To make it be anythign else is to take it OUT of context.



Psalm 50:10 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills.

was the cattle on the one thousand and first hill not Gods? or was the thousand hills figurative?, Ill go with the figurative.

I will go with literal.

Yes they were his, And I might add, Still are. He created them.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You might also quote the rest the next verse to get the full context :

1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP] There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

it is "water" here, the antitype that "now saves us"
You forget the bolded part.

Water baptism is the answer of a good conscious towrds God. it will never remove the filth of the flesh.

The resurrection of Christ is what saves us.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Actually we have been (Rantizo)ed if we have went out in the rain<----sprinkled that is hahahahah
lol. I was fully drenched :p but yeah, You are probably right..lol
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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so water trumps the baptism of jesus.

ok thanks..

good luck!

I had an inmate in Solitary Confinement in the Security Housing Unit (the Hole), that I believe genuinely believed and received Jesus as LORD, and then he requested that I Baptize him. The institution rules did NOT allow any direct contact with inmates in the S.H.U. I got permission to stand outside the shower door, the next time his shower was scheduled, and as I recited the traditional Baptism words, I had him back under the shower stream and come back out. I believe, GOD honored that as fulfilling the obedient act of Baptism. But I still insist that is merely a picture of what had already happened in his HEART, the spiritual immersion into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Again, if it was not figurative, then explain to me how all these people fit into Moses when they were immersed into him?
Why did paul say they were immersed into moses if they were not?

why do you want to make paul a liar?

They were baptised into moses, His leadership Was his leadership not enough for them ALL to be baptized into??
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
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Your 100 % right. Except it can also mean overwhelmed, ie, CHrist was overwhelmes with the calamity of his work of the cross (his baptism)



They were literally immersed into moses. He was 100 the head, and they were 100 % under him.

vs, Being dipped (bapto) into moses. which would mean he was not placed 100 % over him.


And context has nothing to do with it.

It says they were batised (immersed into. Place into) moses.

Moses is the subject of the verb baptizo. To make it be anythign else is to take it OUT of context.
I am not going to argue the baptism of Moses, as I said, we can find 6 or 7 baptism in the entirety of the bible, Eph. 4:5 says there is one saving baptism, so which one is it? Moses?



I will go with literal.

Yes they were his, And I might add, Still are. He created them.
Okay, who did the rest of the cattle belong to that were on the rest of the hills?

Ill go with figurative, everything belongs to God, we must be stewards of it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I had an inmate in Solitary Confinement in the Security Housing Unit (the Hole), that I believe genuinely believe received Jesus as LORD, and then request that I Baptize him. The institution rules did NOT allow any direct contact with inmates in the S.H.U. I got permission to stand outside the shower door, the next time his shower was scheduled, and as I recited the traditional Baptism words, I had him back under the shower stream and come back out. I believe, GOD honored that as fulfilling the obedient act of Baptism. But I still insist that is merely a picture of what had already happened in his HEART, the spiritual immersion into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Amen, He was completely saved and washed the moment he trusted Christ.

But according to these guys, He would have been lost forever if he died before you were able to do that..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I am not going to argue the baptism of Moses, as I said, we can find 6 or 7 baptism in the entirety of the bible, Eph. 4:5 says there is one saving baptism, so which one is it? Moses?

It is the one prophesied by John.

"but he will baptise you with the HS and fire.


Unless you believe John lied to probably thousands of people?



Okay, who did the rest of the cattle belong to that were on the rest of the hills?

Ill go with figurative, everything belongs to God, we must be stewards of it.
All cattle belongs to God.

Next?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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lol. I was fully drenched :p but yeah, You are probably right..lol
HAHAHHA well I went to my moms a few times today (next door) and had to adjust my Internet Sat Dish a bit to get service hahahha and only got a little wet.....as I wore a jacket and hung it by the wood stove when I came in...dry as a bone in 20 minutes...
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
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Why did paul say they were immersed into moses if they were not?

why do you want to make paul a liar?

They were baptised into moses, His leadership Was his leadership not enough for them ALL to be baptized into??
Paul said it figuratively,

They were transferred from Pharaoh to Moses through the cloud and sea, in like manner (figurative baptism) men now by baptism are consecrated to the leadership of Jesus Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Paul said it figuratively,

They were transferred from Pharaoh to Moses through the cloud and sea, in like manner (figurative baptism) men now by baptism are consecrated to the leadership of Jesus Christ.
No.

He said it literally.

Just like I was baptized into christ, from the law of sin and death, to the law of Christ and life.

NOT in water.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
HAHAHHA well I went to my moms a few times today (next door) and had to adjust my Internet Sat Dish a bit to get service hahahha and only got a little wet.....as I wore a jacket and hung it by the wood stove when I came in...dry as a bone in 20 minutes...
thats good.

I am just hoping the flood waters do not overtake us, I am about to call Noah!!
HA HA
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,984
4,604
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Oh been building a (armored) chicken coop as a buddy of mine gave me 20 to 30 chickens hahaha and seeing how I live in the woods......I had to make it coon, possum, rat, snake, fox proof hahah....weaving chicken wire together with wire is no funnnnnnnnnnn for real!...Don't mind the use of the phrase as I have laughed a few times when I read your usage of it :)
When we were growing up on the farm, we could have used that (armored) chicken coop. One time when I was about 8 and my brother was 6, we were gathering eggs, and he had to stand on his tip-toes, to reach into the top row of nests. As he reached into the second one, he screamed and yanked his hand back. I thought a hen had pecked him, but he said NO. Something up there had fur. Sure enough a possum had ate his fill of eggs and curled up and went to sleep.
 

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
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It is the one prophesied by John.

"but he will baptise you with the HS and fire.


Unless you believe John lied to probably thousands of people?
That's right, disciples baptize us, not Christ, Christ baptized the Apostles and the house of Cornelius, everyone else was baptized by "disciples" by "water" and even the those baptized by Christ (HS baptism) were water baptized (Acts 10:47-48) , the same water baptism that Peter talked about in 1 Peter 3:20-21, the only saving baptism in Eph. 4:5.





All cattle belongs to God.
Good, so you agree, the thousand hills were figurative
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
That's right, disciples baptize us, not Christ, Christ baptized the Apostles and the house of Cornelius, everyone else was baptized by "disciples" by "water" and even the those baptized by Christ (HS baptism) were water baptized (Acts 10:47-48) , the same water baptism that Peter talked about in 1 Peter 3:20-21, the only saving baptism in Eph. 4:5.
John did not say disciples will baptize us he said Jesus will

talk about twisting what John said.


Good, so you agree, the thousand hills were figurative

Nope.

I still say they are literal. as were the animals.

Are you honestly going to say those beast and Cattle were not Gods?