Is there such a thing as an atheist?

[Spokenpassage]

I believe the truth suffices the desire for satisfaction in a human being. A lot search, a lot of people don't. Those who search can't find it because they are looking in the wrong places or with wrong motives. Those who don't, they are looking at life from the outside ignorant of what they need from the inside. I was once both, what little I have had in this life has shown me what might take 50 years for someone else to see. Either way, we have our eyes opened.

Why would I be doing this if everything I believe was false? Even better, what about the apostles? Every one of them suffered martyrdom except John the beloved. Why would they suffer being boiled in oil, crucifixion, felayed, pierced, etc for a dead man they followed for 3 years?

Why would Jesus spend His whole life devoted to teaching, helping people when He could have done so much more? Why would Jesus suffer the hard life when He could have lived a better one? His family wasn't homeless, but He became homeless devoting every moment in His ministry to heal, to teach, to love people. Not even a recorded miracle is found that He did to prevent any kind of suffering, hunger, temptation. He went through it all. Why? Why would this man do this? He wasn't even looking to take over the Roman Empire. He didn't build a legion to fight wars. Did He ever complain about what He did? No!

This Jesus is more than just a man, He is the Son of God. If He was insane, He was pretty good at pretending He wasn't with everything He taught and did, and especially the numbers of people who followed Him even today. He must have been pretty wise to be insane for people to still talk about Him today.

What the apostles taught us true, what we proclaim is true. We would not lie you. If I did, what gain would I have? If you converted to my beliefs with me knowing it's false, what gain will I have in the end besides death? Is death even a gain?

 

[Cycel]

Cycel, to what I am pointing out is, to believe in Jesus is to understand Adam and Eve. Adam brought sin and death to all men through him, Jesus is considered the second Adam by bringing righteousness and life to all men through Him.

I can understand why people think it's foolishness, so my question is, do you guys understand why we think it's not?

The story is not rational. You understand that because, as you said, there was a time you thought it was foolish. I would not call it foolish, any more than I would call the Greek myth of Pandora's Box foolish. There was a time, I am sure, when millions of Greeks viewed the tale of Pandora as an historical event. I think you view the story of Eve and the snake the same way. I am almost tempted to think that down in the deepest recess of your heart you know this is not historical, but that you believe in belief so much that you deeply want it to be true.

I would never call a beautiful myth foolish, but I think there comes a time when men should set their myths aside. We can continue to enjoy them for the light they throw upon antiquity, but to spurn contemporary learning in favour of a bronze age cosmology, that makes little sense.

 

[Percepi]

I can understand why people think it's foolishness, so my question is, do you guys understand why we think it's not?

I would imagine, it's because the story of Adam and Eve fits in so well with everything else you understand about God.

Perhaps, you can understand why this reasoning might not convince a non-believer.

 

[Cycel]

What the apostles taught us true, what we proclaim is true. We would not lie you. If I did, what gain would I have? If you converted to my beliefs with me knowing it's false, what gain will I have in the end besides death? Is death even a gain?

Once again, I do not think you are lying, but your religious conviction is not evidence that what you believe is true. Truthfully, I have a different understanding, an historical interpretation, that involves no supernatural events and I think it makes a great deal more sense.

 

[Simona25]

Once again, I do not think you are lying, but your religious conviction is not evidence that what you believe is true. Truthfully, I have a different understanding, an historical interpretation, that involves no supernatural events and I think it makes a great deal more sense.

I think it makes more sense to use a metaphorical or analogical speech when we talk about the metacosmos (the unseen world) and things that can only be intuited and observed with the soul, not the eyes.
Jesus Christ did not put on his glasses and explained pedantic and systematic the truth; he did not used argumentation and logical demonstration to convince his audience; Jesus Christ talked to them in parables.

 

[pastac]

Is there such a thing as an atheist[?/QUOTE
The simple answer is yes they do exist and the rest of this stuff is sooooo confusing some of it is pure mumbo jumbo physcobabble and foolishness to a large degree. I'm not willing to debate the issue it was a very simpl question with som weird responses. I've read them all and am still shaking my head.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

Is there such a thing as an atheist[?/QUOTE
The simple answer is yes they do exist and the rest of this stuff is sooooo confusing some of it is pure mumbo jumbo physcobabble and foolishness to a large degree. I'm not willing to debate the issue it was a very simpl question with som weird responses. I've read them all and am still shaking my head.

Well it wasn't a simple question, it was a ridiculous question. And it was really intended to make the statement 'oh you'll believe when your being tortured in hell'. It was basically a dress up of the 'Believe or Burn' mantra.

So please, don't be shocked at the answers you've seen, when a threat is veiled as a question then the gloves are off.

 

[pastac]

I'm not nieave it was a simple question. I saw through the foolishness of the simple question but the answers are shocking coming from many who say they are Christian. I get the whole wheat tare thing and God being the judge I'm just pointing out sometimes less is more when confronted with foolishness. I'm with you on defending your position but why debate with a devil?What outcome do you hope to gain from that. Rebukem and keep moving. Just a few thoughts.

 

[Simona25]

I'm with you on defending your position but why debate with a devil?What outcome do you hope to gain from that. Rebukem and keep moving. Just a few thoughts.

I have come to the same conclusion: that a dialogue between a christian and an atheist is useless from the very beginning. Even Jesus Christ left the indifferents in their indifference.

 

[nl]

Truthfully, I have a different understanding, an historical interpretation, that involves no supernatural events and I think it makes a great deal more sense.

Do not most agree that humanity came from a common lineage? Do not most agree that Asian, African and European distinctives all arose from the common lineage?

If you accept the premise that humanity arose from apes, then do not many accept the premise that this happened only once?

Genesis 8-9 tells us about Noah and his sons (Shem, Ham and Japheth) emerging from the ark and getting re-established on dry land. The three sons of Noah have been taught as the originators of the Asian, African and European lineages.

Genesis 10 gives us a table of the early nations as descended from Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Genesis 11 gives us the origin of language diversity.

Even though early hominids are dated by some at millions of years, it is not agreed that human writing began with peoples like the Sumerians, Egyptians and Moses just 3.5-5 thousands of years ago.

Please pardon my light research on these topics this morning. What think ye?

 

[MarkMulder]

Please pardon my light research on these topics this morning. What think ye?

I think it's a weird kind of syncretism.

 

[homwardbound]

As the Good Book says, Love is the fulfullment of the law. The Lord and Master Jesus Christ commands love.

Love is patient and kind and charitable towards others. Love can prioritize to put the needs of others ahead of self.

+++

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? (Proverbs 1:22)

Now, there can be people who acquire knowledge in general but reject knowledge that contains the truth concerning God.

"...they did not like to retain God in their knowledge..." (Romans 1:8).

As former US VP Al Gore has said: some truth is inconvenient truth. Truth can be inconvenient because it might weigh on us to respond to it with faith and love.

Truth God will always be and God plain and simply loves us all correct or wrong? Did Christ do to the cross for all or just a select few?

 

[homwardbound]

So you think it's foolish to NOT believe stories about a talking snake telling a naked woman to eat a magic apple?

Foolish to not believe dead people come back to life? Virgin births? People turning into salt? People living over 500 years? Giants? Talking Donkeys?

I'm a fool for not believing in any of that without a shred of evidence? Come on, get some perspective!

Can you even understand why someone would have difficulty believing stuff like that?

There is more to this earth "intothevoid" than what meets the eye, as Thomas had to see to believe. God willing God will show you, for God wishes none to perish.
I knowthere are many presentations that God is not Love yet the whole word surrounds that God is, just not easy to see with selfishnmess of man in the way, that wants control. Where God gave up control by free will to all man, which prooves to me the depth of the love of God, me not being a puppet on strings as man so well dsesires to do to othes and has done through religion, using God as their catalyst to gain what they want, which was what was going on during his time here on earth in that day and went against the religous leaders of that day and would do the same again todayt if he were here in the flesh here today, but he is only here in the Spirit today, and presents this (I) God just love you, get it others do and do not, many say they do and don't, and that discourages us people that do not even fathom doing others wrong right or wrong Friend?

 

[homwardbound]

I have never been witness to a miracle.

Have you ever watched a Baby being born? A broken arm heal? Amazing yeah in itself, i can cur open my arm and watch it heal, is that not a miracle?

 

[nl]

I think it's a weird kind of syncretism.

Herr Mulder, I don't fully understand you but I have enjoyed your posts and discerned humor and wisdom in them.

 

[MarkMulder]

Herr Mulder, I don't fully understand you but I have enjoyed your posts and discerned humor and wisdom in them.

Danke...

"Syncretism /ˈsɪŋkrətɪzəm/ is the combining of different, often seemingly contradictory beliefs, while melding practices of various schools of thought."

Source: Syncretism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You either believe what the Bible has to say about the history of mankind,
or accept the scientific account of the origins of man. Not some a weird mishmash of the two.

 

[Cycel]

I have never been witness to a miracle.

Have you ever watched a Baby being born? A broken arm heal? Amazing yeah in itself, i can cur open my arm and watch it heal, is that not a miracle?

Those are all natural events that occur everyday. A miracle would be a man with one leg waking up in the morning with two legs, or conjoined twins waking up in the morning as two separate individuals, or a person with Downs Syndrome waking in the morning with their DNA returned to normal. Those would be true miracles, but such things never happen.

 

[Cycel]

There is more to this earth "intothevoid" than what meets the eye, as Thomas had to see to believe.

Have you read the Gospel of Thomas?

The Gospel of Thomas Collection -- Translations and Resources

In the 1st century AD lived a group that have come to be known as Thomas Christians who looked to the apostle Thomas, instead of to Peter. Tradition has it that Thomas was Jesus' twin, indeed Thomas means twin. A number of scholars look to John's account of doubting Thomas as a deliberate slight against the Thomas Christians. There are other references in John that seem to indicate that he was aware of this group and of their Gospel.

Don't be put off by the appearance of this work in a Gnostic library. Some scholars are now coming to the conclusion that this Gospel is not a work of the Gnostics, but of a group of very early Christians. Fifty percent of the sayings of Jesus it contains have very close parallels to the synoptic Gospels. It may be that this work contains sayings of Jesus that were not recorded in the New Testament. You might want to have a look at it.

Oh, it is simply a collection of Jesus' sayings. There is no narrative structure.

 

[Cycel]

I think it's a weird kind of syncretism.

Syncretism?

If you accept that all humans were wiped out in the Flood then Noah and his three sons, and their wives, are the ancestors of all living humans: Africans, Chinese, Native Americans, etc. These races had to evolve from only eight individuals. Whether or not you believe in evolution you have to accept evolution to explain the diversity of humans on Earth. I don't see where syncretism comes into play.

 

[Cycel]

Genesis 11 gives us the origin of language diversity.

You don't believe this account is historical do you? Today we understand how rapidly languages evolve. I am sure you have seen samples of Old English from the early Middle Ages. It is like a foreign language.