Salvation Not Possible Without Works
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Eph 3:4 "Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)"
Paul said when the Ephesians read why he recieved by revelation and wrote down, they could UNDERSTAND. Paul did not say they could understand only with the Holy Spirit "illuminating" their understanding but they could understand simply by reading.
The Comforter was a promise made to the apsotles, no one else. The purpose of Jesu givng His apostles the Comforter was so "he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you". Jn 14:26. Promise was fulfilled to the aposltes in Acts 1:4 cf Acts 2:1-4.
Paul said when the Ephesians read why he recieved by revelation and wrote down, they could UNDERSTAND. Paul did not say they could understand only with the Holy Spirit "illuminating" their understanding but they could understand simply by reading.
The Comforter was a promise made to the apsotles, no one else. The purpose of Jesu givng His apostles the Comforter was so "he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you". Jn 14:26. Promise was fulfilled to the aposltes in Acts 1:4 cf Acts 2:1-4.
He was speaking to the same people when he commanded "repent and be baptized". He did not tell one crowd "repent" and another different crowd somewhere else "be baptized".
As I posted earlier, Peter uses very specific language that each one in his crowd is to be baptized, not leaving any single person out.
A Literature teacher can tell her class of 30 students: " You all (plural) go to the library and write a report on book "x""
All the 30 students can go to the library and all get together and write one report together and turn in that one report to the teacher. They 'technically" did what the teacher asked.
If the teacher used specific language as Peter she would have said "You all (plural) go to the library and each one of you (singular) write a report on book "x""
Then the teacher could expect 30 reports, one report from each student. The teachers specific language would not allow any student get out from writing his own report as Peter's specific words did not let any of his audience get out of being baptized.
To tell you the truth, Jesus said that only those who do the will of my father shall enter into into the kingdom of heaven and that faith without works is dead. You are saved by faith but you cannot have true faith without works. Therefore good works are absolutely necessary to have true faith and for salvation.
Matthew 7:20-21
So then, you will know them by their fruits. Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Even the Lord's Prayer "Our Father" says "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will Be Done On Earth As It Is In Heaven"
Matthew 7:20-21
So then, you will know them by their fruits. Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Even the Lord's Prayer "Our Father" says "Thy Kingdom Come, Thy Will Be Done On Earth As It Is In Heaven"
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Well the understanding thing certainly has eluded you once again. The Holy Spirit Who is the Comforter is promised to all believers. Where you ever came up with the idea that He was only for the apostles is beyond me. Jesus Himself went into great detail in John 15-16 on the subject.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The comforter is what Jesus told the Apostles he would send them, it has nothing to do with anyone other than the Apostles, unless you are telling me that you have been giving the gifts, such as performing miracles, speaking in different languages, and the ability to lay on hands and healing people, which can only be done by the Apostles and only if the Apostles gave you the ability to do that, which they didn't because there all dead.
Yep!
One of the basic fundamental errors of a screwy theology.
Nope. . .
One of the basic fundamental errors to be unraveled and sorted out
which uses the word "works" in a non-Biblical sense according to their own notions,
rather than in the Biblical sense of "works of the law,"
because it's the only way to get the word "works" to agree with the screwy theology.
And the next fundamental error to be unraveled and sorted out
is the meaning of "righteousness," which the screwy theology does not believe in
faith = justification = righteousness (right standing before God) = salvation.
This theology does not believe:
"Whoever believes is not condemned,
but whoevber does not believe stands condemned already."
(Jn 3:18)
"Whoever rejects the Son will not see life,
for God's wrath remains on him."
(Jn 3:36)
In this theology, one's sin can be forgiven (salvation, Lk 1:77),
one can have right standing before God (justification by faith),
and still be no more certain of his eternal future
than the one who rejects Christ and is condemned (Jn 3:18, 36).
This is called unbelief.
And then there's. . .
One of the basic fundamental errors of a screwy theology.
Nope. . .
One of the basic fundamental errors to be unraveled and sorted out
which uses the word "works" in a non-Biblical sense according to their own notions,
rather than in the Biblical sense of "works of the law,"
because it's the only way to get the word "works" to agree with the screwy theology.
And the next fundamental error to be unraveled and sorted out
is the meaning of "righteousness," which the screwy theology does not believe in
faith = justification = righteousness (right standing before God) = salvation.
This theology does not believe:
"Whoever believes is not condemned,
but whoevber does not believe stands condemned already."
(Jn 3:18)
"Whoever rejects the Son will not see life,
for God's wrath remains on him."
(Jn 3:36)
In this theology, one's sin can be forgiven (salvation, Lk 1:77),
one can have right standing before God (justification by faith),
and still be no more certain of his eternal future
than the one who rejects Christ and is condemned (Jn 3:18, 36).
This is called unbelief.
And then there's. . .
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Is it necessary to say things like you did to me stating "am I really that shallow intellectually " . No actually I'm not intellectually shallow, and I prefer to be treated as you would like to be treated, which is with respect. In response to your answer can you show me anywhere in the bible where immersed is used in the way you state.
Repentance is impossible for those that do not believe, therefore belief includes repenting. You posted "According to you (SeaBass), those who believe the gospel are still lost until they repent, confess and get baptized"
What I am saying is that biblical saving belief INCLUDES repentance, confession and baptism. Belief is used as a synecdoche, so as in Acts 2:44 those that "believed" the world "elevied" includes being baptized in 41. Belif only, that is a bleif VOID of repetnace confessionand bpatism cannot sve for "belief only" leaves one impenitent, a denier of Christ and lost in his unremitted sins. It does not work where one is first saved by belief only then AFTER he is saved he then repents, confesses and is baptized.
Believing in Christ menas doing what He says:
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Lk 6:46
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" Heb 5:9
"If ye love me, keep my commandments" Jn 14:15
From just these 3 verses, we can see that one who does not have obedient works in obeying Christ's will (1) cannot call Jesus their Lord, (2) will not be saved and (3) does not love Christ.
I explained in Mak 1:15 Jesus was speaking to Jews who ALREADY believed in God, they needed to repent of their hard heart they had toward Christ then they could come to believe in Christ, then realize they are lost in thier sins, then repent of their sins. CHrist is "THE REASON" one repents, so how can one repent if he does not believe in "THE REASON"?
So you have not explain how it is possible for the unbeliever or why the unbeliever would repent.
In Acts 2:38 baptismis not "parethetical" it is commanded as much a repent. And where did Peter command these Jews in Acts 2 to first repent then believe? It is obviouls they already believed when they asked what they must do.
Again HOW and WHY would an unbeliever repent?
Why how would an athiest repent when he does not beleive in the reason (Christ) one repents?
This is similar to Heb 6:
"For it is impossible.....If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame"
The Hebrew writer is talking about a Christian that falls away, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for him to repent. Yet we know PEter repented of his denying Christ, Simon repented in Acts 8 of trying to buy the power of the Holy Spirit.
It is impossible for them to repent for they KEEP on curcify and KEEP ON putting to shame Christ, both verbs crcufiy ahd put are present tense. AS long as that person remains in a state where he is CONTINUING to crucifyand put to shame Christ, the ONLY reason one repents, then it woill be IMPOSSIBEl for him to repent remaining in that state. BUT if he quits crucify and putting to shame Christ (not harden his heart agaisnt Christ) then he can come to repent.
Likeiwse, those Jews in Mk 1:15 if they would quit hardening their heart against Christ, then they could come to believe in Christ and repent.
I am waiting for a logical, biblical answer as to how and why an unbeliever can repent?
[Not only is repenting without faith impossible, it is not pleasing to God, Heb 11:6]
belief and confession are not the same thing. Again:
Jn 12:42 "Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:"
This verse shows a distinct separation in believing and confessing.
I gave explanation in my last post of why in come verses rpent is before belive, which I will not take to to repat here.
I am still waiting on a logical, blibical answer in how and why an unbeliever can repent.
"Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:"
According to you, when they believed that means they at the same time confesses since you say both are not spearate events.
The distinction is clearly made here between believing and yet NOT confessing.
I do not know if these chief rulers ever confessed some time down the road, but I do know that their belief in this passage did not include confession.
Yes, belief MUST include confession as it must include repentance and baptism. The bible tells me that belief saves. It tells me repentance saves and confession saves and baptism saves. Since there is just ONE way to be sved, no alternateives then logically a biblical belief that saves is one that includes repent confession and baptism. No one will never, from the bible, convience me that one can be saved by "belief only" while that one remains impenitent, a denier of Christ and lost in his unremitted sins.
The one repsonse I am waiting form you is a logical, biblical reponse in HOW ans WHY would an unbeliever repent?
Our Pentecostal friends believe that those miracle-working abilities continue even to this day. And some of them, particularly in the region of the southern Appalachian mountains, practice “snake handling” in their religious services. The movement had its origin in about 1910, and has been the subject of numerous studies and television specials.
“Punkin” Brown was one of the leading practitioners of this movement. But not any more. He is dead at the age of thirty-four. Brown, the father of five children, was handling a three-foot timber rattler during one of his services on Saturday, October 3, 1998. The snake bit him on the finger, and within ten minutes he was dead.
This tragedy is compounded by the fact that Brown was a widower. His wife, Melinda, died three years earlier when she was bitten by a rattler in the “Full Gospel Tabernacle in Jesus Name Church” in Middlesboro, Kentucky. Now, five children have neither a mom nor dad—simply because their parents, who obviously were quite sincere, believed the false doctrine that miracles (e.g., taking up serpents) still prevail today.
Compassionate hearts grieve for this family. In spite of that, a teacher of truth has the obligation to highlight the utter fanaticism characteristic of these people. Why can’t folks see the error in this deadly practice?
According to newspaper accounts, one fang of the snake pierced Brown’s finger. Within moments he toppled over. Why was he so affected? Because he did not have the “take-up-serpents” sign.
Interestingly, one of the first reactions of someone in the congregation was to call 911. Why did they not just pray for him, and heal the gentleman? “Healing” is listed in the same passage that mentions taking up serpents. The answer is all too obvious. They did not have that power either.
Moreover, once Mr. Brown expired, why did not someone in the congregation raise him from the dead? Raising the dead was also a first-century sign (see Matthew 10:8; Acts 9:36-42; 20:9-10). They could not raise the victim from the dead!
As sad as this episode is, it illustrates how utterly deceived a person can be. Example after example of fatalities in connection with these snake-handling services can be cited, yet these poor people continue to practice this bizarre religion. Some folks, under the sway of religious dogma, appear to lose the basic ability to reason correctly.
Too, this case graphically illustrates the fact that sincerity in religion doesn’t count for anything—unless it is coupled with truth. Mr. and Mrs. Brown were obviously sincere, but they were wrong. Now they are dead—dead wrong!
Every person needs to examine his religious beliefs in order to determine whether or not they conform to the New Testament. Just as sincerity does not negate natural law, neither does it cancel spiritual law. Sincerity is to be applauded as a personal trait; but if it is coupled with error, it can be deadly.
“Punkin” Brown was one of the leading practitioners of this movement. But not any more. He is dead at the age of thirty-four. Brown, the father of five children, was handling a three-foot timber rattler during one of his services on Saturday, October 3, 1998. The snake bit him on the finger, and within ten minutes he was dead.
This tragedy is compounded by the fact that Brown was a widower. His wife, Melinda, died three years earlier when she was bitten by a rattler in the “Full Gospel Tabernacle in Jesus Name Church” in Middlesboro, Kentucky. Now, five children have neither a mom nor dad—simply because their parents, who obviously were quite sincere, believed the false doctrine that miracles (e.g., taking up serpents) still prevail today.
Compassionate hearts grieve for this family. In spite of that, a teacher of truth has the obligation to highlight the utter fanaticism characteristic of these people. Why can’t folks see the error in this deadly practice?
According to newspaper accounts, one fang of the snake pierced Brown’s finger. Within moments he toppled over. Why was he so affected? Because he did not have the “take-up-serpents” sign.
Interestingly, one of the first reactions of someone in the congregation was to call 911. Why did they not just pray for him, and heal the gentleman? “Healing” is listed in the same passage that mentions taking up serpents. The answer is all too obvious. They did not have that power either.
Moreover, once Mr. Brown expired, why did not someone in the congregation raise him from the dead? Raising the dead was also a first-century sign (see Matthew 10:8; Acts 9:36-42; 20:9-10). They could not raise the victim from the dead!
As sad as this episode is, it illustrates how utterly deceived a person can be. Example after example of fatalities in connection with these snake-handling services can be cited, yet these poor people continue to practice this bizarre religion. Some folks, under the sway of religious dogma, appear to lose the basic ability to reason correctly.
Too, this case graphically illustrates the fact that sincerity in religion doesn’t count for anything—unless it is coupled with truth. Mr. and Mrs. Brown were obviously sincere, but they were wrong. Now they are dead—dead wrong!
Every person needs to examine his religious beliefs in order to determine whether or not they conform to the New Testament. Just as sincerity does not negate natural law, neither does it cancel spiritual law. Sincerity is to be applauded as a personal trait; but if it is coupled with error, it can be deadly.
I can only measure your sincerity through your responses. If you have a Strongs Concordance you can look up the Greek words used in the original manuscripts. This is useful in study of what was said and to place things in context. If you do not have access to a Strongs you can download any number of online bibles that have the cross references available for your study.
I have already shown you that Mat 28 do I need to show where we are told of baptism of fire? Mat 3:11 and Luke 3:16 same baptize word as in Mat 28. Do we need to address every passage where the word baptize is used? Baptizo and bapto are both translated baptize but they are different in their usage linguistically. There are many others here who are much better equipped to address the language nuances than I.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I have already shown you that Mat 28 do I need to show where we are told of baptism of fire? Mat 3:11 and Luke 3:16 same baptize word as in Mat 28. Do we need to address every passage where the word baptize is used? Baptizo and bapto are both translated baptize but they are different in their usage linguistically. There are many others here who are much better equipped to address the language nuances than I.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You should know that Strongs will give the least inflected word or the strongs number, and it is up to you to select from the several definitions given by proper use of context.
Baptizo means to immerse or dip, dunk, but it does not in its self define what the component is that one is immersed in.
Since context of Mat 3:11 and Luke 3:16 say there are three things a person can be baptized in, it to says there is only 1 thing a disciple baptize someone in and that is water, all others are by Jesus Christ,
Matthew 3:11 (KJV) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Men were commissioned to go throughout the world and baptizing, not to go throughout the world so Jesus could baptize.
Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
The baptism that remits sins is through immersion in water.
Baptizo means to immerse or dip, dunk, but it does not in its self define what the component is that one is immersed in.
Since context of Mat 3:11 and Luke 3:16 say there are three things a person can be baptized in, it to says there is only 1 thing a disciple baptize someone in and that is water, all others are by Jesus Christ,
Matthew 3:11 (KJV) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Men were commissioned to go throughout the world and baptizing, not to go throughout the world so Jesus could baptize.
Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
The baptism that remits sins is through immersion in water.
Dear friend, hope you're having a great day. I will absolutely never put you in the same category as a snake handler. It saddens me to see people who could actually believe something as being able to pick up a venomous snake and think it's never going to harm them. all because of believing something that just isn't true, heartbreaking for sure.
You don't baptize unbelievers in order to make them believers. Belief is not baptism and belief precedes baptism and we are saved through believing in Christ for salvation (John 3:16,18,36; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31). It's just that simple. Belief is not used as a synecdoche for baptism. You can repent and believe the gospel but NOT YET BE WATER BAPTIZED. If you repent and believe the gospel on your death bed but are unable to get water baptized before you died, you still believe the gospel. Baptism does not cause you to believe the gospel.
Saving belief is not void of repentance or confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord or believing in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. You have the order and the purpose of each mixed up. We first repent "change our mind" about our sinful position and need for Christ to save us and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ for salvation. The word of faith is in our heart and in our mouth and salvation is signified in baptism. The Bible says believe and be saved (Luke 8:12) but you say believe and be lost until self-reformation, reciting the words Jesus is Lord, and water baptism is accomplished. In Romans 10:10, Paul said that confession is unto salvation, but according to your formula, confession is not really unto salvation, it's unto baptism which is then unto salvation. See your confusion?
Believing in Christ means trusting in Him for salvation. Doing what He says afterwards is works.
It's not sufficient to give mere lip service to Christ. Doing what Jesus says after we have been saved through faith is the fruit of salvation, not the cause. A tree is known by it's fruit (vs. 44). Notice verse 45 - The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil.
Do you believe that the word "obey" here means that we are saved "by" obedience/works which follow saving faith in Christ? If that is the case, then how can you say that you have truly "obeyed" Him (in that sense) unless you have done it completely, 100%? All sin is disobedience and believers are not sinless and perfect. Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commandments and practicing righteousness. (1 John 2:3; 3:10). In either sense, only believers obey Him. Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16). Without faith, it is impossible to please God, so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much so called obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh. In either sense, unbelievers (no matter how religious they think they are, the Pharisees for example) do not obey Him.
Keeping His commandments is the evidence of our love for the Lord, not the means of our salvation. Genuine BELIEVERS keep His commandments, because they are saved, not to become saved. Keeping His commandments after we have been saved through faith is what we are saved FOR, not by (Ephesians 2:8-10). Created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works. You are putting the cart before the horse and teaching salvation by works.
Those who do not have works to substantiate their faith have a dead faith to begin with. A lack of faith is the heart of the issue of not having obedient works and not having love for Christ. What is God's will for us to become saved? John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Believing in the existence of God is not the same as believing in Christ for salvation. They still needed to repent and believe the gospel.
An unbeliever needs to repent in order to become a believer. If we don't repent then we won't believe the gospel and become saved. Simply believing that Jesus exists is not enough. We must also trust in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation. Trusting in water and works for salvation is not trusting in Christ for salvation.
In Acts 2:36-37, their belief at that point was only "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and that they were guilty of crucifying Him. That is not saving belief yet. They still lacked "trust and reliance in Christ alone for salvation." In verse 40, they heard more from Peter and in verse 41, when they gladly received his word, the process of repentance was complete and the end result was saving faith in Christ. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.
In Acts 2:38, repentance is the means of receiving forgiveness and baptism is in reference to true repentance and forgiveness. As we see in Matthew 3:11 - ..I baptize you with water for repentance.. I baptize you with water "in order to obtain repentance" or "in reference to/on the basis" of repentance?
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 10:43-47 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43? Water baptism followed their faith and conversion.
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved - Acts 16:31) who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). *Perfect Harmony*
As I already shared with you: The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this "change of mind." Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, what you change your mind about and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of coming to Christ. In the context of Luke 13:3, Jesus challenged the people's notion that they were morally superior to those who suffered in such catastrophes. He called all to repent or perish. For some people though, prior to coming to the end result of repentance in salvation (faith in Christ for salvation), they must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (see 1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, faith in Christ for salvation is the new direction that change must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation.
An atheist would have to first repent of their lack of belief in the existence of God before they could consider the claims of Christ and ultimately trust in Him for salvation. There are plenty of plenty who believe in the existence of God and believe in the historical facts about Christ BUT have not yet repented and placed their faith in Christ for salvation. Many people trust in works for salvation.
I already gave you a logical, Biblical answer as to how and why an unbeliever can repent.
Define faith and define repentance. I'm sensing an issue in the semantics.
I didn't say they were the same thing. I said But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): Faith and confession are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Believe today but still lost; confess next week finally saved is flawed theology.
Peter failed to confess Christ and denied Him three times, but it was a temporary weak moment, not a life in it's entirety denial. Peter confessed Christ before his weak moment. I already dealt with John 12:42 in my other post.
That's all I have time to address for now. I would prefer to discuss one or two things at a time. These posts are getting too long.
Saving belief is not void of repentance or confessing with your mouth that Jesus is Lord or believing in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. You have the order and the purpose of each mixed up. We first repent "change our mind" about our sinful position and need for Christ to save us and the new direction of this change of mind is faith in Christ for salvation. The word of faith is in our heart and in our mouth and salvation is signified in baptism. The Bible says believe and be saved (Luke 8:12) but you say believe and be lost until self-reformation, reciting the words Jesus is Lord, and water baptism is accomplished. In Romans 10:10, Paul said that confession is unto salvation, but according to your formula, confession is not really unto salvation, it's unto baptism which is then unto salvation. See your confusion?
Believing in Christ means trusting in Him for salvation. Doing what He says afterwards is works.
It's not sufficient to give mere lip service to Christ. Doing what Jesus says after we have been saved through faith is the fruit of salvation, not the cause. A tree is known by it's fruit (vs. 44). Notice verse 45 - The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil.
Do you believe that the word "obey" here means that we are saved "by" obedience/works which follow saving faith in Christ? If that is the case, then how can you say that you have truly "obeyed" Him (in that sense) unless you have done it completely, 100%? All sin is disobedience and believers are not sinless and perfect. Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commandments and practicing righteousness. (1 John 2:3; 3:10). In either sense, only believers obey Him. Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16). Without faith, it is impossible to please God, so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much so called obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh. In either sense, unbelievers (no matter how religious they think they are, the Pharisees for example) do not obey Him.
Keeping His commandments is the evidence of our love for the Lord, not the means of our salvation. Genuine BELIEVERS keep His commandments, because they are saved, not to become saved. Keeping His commandments after we have been saved through faith is what we are saved FOR, not by (Ephesians 2:8-10). Created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works. You are putting the cart before the horse and teaching salvation by works.
Those who do not have works to substantiate their faith have a dead faith to begin with. A lack of faith is the heart of the issue of not having obedient works and not having love for Christ. What is God's will for us to become saved? John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Believing in the existence of God is not the same as believing in Christ for salvation. They still needed to repent and believe the gospel.
An unbeliever needs to repent in order to become a believer. If we don't repent then we won't believe the gospel and become saved. Simply believing that Jesus exists is not enough. We must also trust in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation. Trusting in water and works for salvation is not trusting in Christ for salvation.
In Acts 2:36-37, their belief at that point was only "mental assent" that Jesus was the Messiah and that they were guilty of crucifying Him. That is not saving belief yet. They still lacked "trust and reliance in Christ alone for salvation." In verse 40, they heard more from Peter and in verse 41, when they gladly received his word, the process of repentance was complete and the end result was saving faith in Christ. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.
In Acts 2:38, repentance is the means of receiving forgiveness and baptism is in reference to true repentance and forgiveness. As we see in Matthew 3:11 - ..I baptize you with water for repentance.. I baptize you with water "in order to obtain repentance" or "in reference to/on the basis" of repentance?
Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 10:43-47 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43? Water baptism followed their faith and conversion.
Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved - Acts 16:31) who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?
Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?
Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9). *Perfect Harmony*
As I already shared with you: The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this "change of mind." Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, what you change your mind about and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of coming to Christ. In the context of Luke 13:3, Jesus challenged the people's notion that they were morally superior to those who suffered in such catastrophes. He called all to repent or perish. For some people though, prior to coming to the end result of repentance in salvation (faith in Christ for salvation), they must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (see 1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, faith in Christ for salvation is the new direction that change must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation.
An atheist would have to first repent of their lack of belief in the existence of God before they could consider the claims of Christ and ultimately trust in Him for salvation. There are plenty of plenty who believe in the existence of God and believe in the historical facts about Christ BUT have not yet repented and placed their faith in Christ for salvation. Many people trust in works for salvation.
I already gave you a logical, Biblical answer as to how and why an unbeliever can repent.
Define faith and define repentance. I'm sensing an issue in the semantics.
I didn't say they were the same thing. I said But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): Faith and confession are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Believe today but still lost; confess next week finally saved is flawed theology.
Peter failed to confess Christ and denied Him three times, but it was a temporary weak moment, not a life in it's entirety denial. Peter confessed Christ before his weak moment. I already dealt with John 12:42 in my other post.
That's all I have time to address for now. I would prefer to discuss one or two things at a time. These posts are getting too long.