Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[homwardbound]

Can you say "Christian Dispensation" ?

When Jesus was alive, he could save anyone by his word alone, when he died he was bound to his own law :

Hebrews 9:16-17 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.

Your thief theory is not a NT example, pick another example.

By his death we receive the inheritance promised to Abraham, in the order of Melchizedek. The original first Covenant by Faith

Read on in Hebrews 9
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

We are in a new covenant under the Law of Faith in God by Christ who redeemed us from under the curse revealed to us by the perfect law, shown that our flesh can't perform perfectly and we need to be perfect, so Christ did this for us, and we reside in trust (Faith) in this and be as we are called by Father through Faith in the finished work of Son for us and we then can rest in him 24/7

 

[homwardbound]

So we have two kinds of sins. Fleshly sins and spiritual sins. Baptism washes the spiritual, but what removes the fleshly sin?

sounds like a psuedo-Gnosticism.
Can you support your statement with scripture?

John the Baptist witnessed Christ and said:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Ask this in whose sight? Did this take place at Christ's death again in whose sight?

Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

So in seeing this what are we to do, since by Christ's death we are made Holy to Father? Do we believe Father and remain steadfast or do we work at it?

Can anyone make themselves better than Holy already done by Son at the cross in his death?
It is done, this is a reality, and it matters not what anyone does, slice, dice or cube it
God through Son went to the cross for us all and died for us all, and is now waiting for us to beleive God and stand firm in this truth, steadfast it is all God and none of anyone else period read all of Col 1 and see that this is the Gospel

 

[homwardbound]

by obedience to God, It was not when Noah was told to make a boat he was made righteous, it was "after he did what he was commanded to do", like so:

Now when Jesus said Hear, believe, repent, confess Christ, and be baptized, it is not when he said those things we are saved, it is "after we obey Him"





News Flash, he did die, and was resurrected, do you deny he died?

It was after he died his law came into force, the thief died when Jesus was still alive (before his death), he is not a new testament example, find another example.





I think Jesus died for me, and was resurrected, making His new better covenant in force, you however have your own "self-imposed" religion.

Obedience is not the salvation of a work from us in our flesh.
Faith is and the response in Faith is the fruit in the works shown as in Abraham and Noah, just read Hebrews 11 it shows Works are nothing more than a by-product of Faith in the living God

 

[SeaBass]

If we look at this verse closely, we see that it is composed of two basic statements. 1—He who believes and is baptized will be saved. 2—He who does not believe will be condemned. Clearly, the determining factor regarding whether one is saved or condemned is whether or not he believes. In interpreting this passage correctly, it is important to realize that while it tells us something about believers who have been baptized (they will be saved), it does not say anything about believers who have not been baptized. In order for this verse to teach that baptism is necessary for salvation, a third statement would have had to be included, that statement being: “He who believes and is not baptized will be condemned” or “He who is not baptized will be condemned.” But, of course, neither of these statements is found in the verse.

Mk 16:16a is about salvation, a DIFFERENT subject than Mk 16;16b that is about condemnation. Therefore the qualifications for salvation is DIFFERENT than the qualification for being condmened.

There are two prerequsites in order to be saved > belief and baptism
There is one prerequsite for being condemned > unbelief

You are not interpreting this but COMPLETELY CHANGING it to fit your theology. Jesus NEVER said he that believeth is saved and then can be baptized later. You are changing the prerequsites Jesus gave to being saved to a prerequsite that fits your tholeogy is all that is taking place here.

Jesus used a progression of prerequsites in being saved 1) belief 2) baptism 3) saved
Therefore you must do 1 and 2 before you can get to 3. Therefore if a person has not done 1) then we logiaclly know he has not done 2 or 3. So when Jesus said he that has not believeth not that logically includes the unbaptized.

There is an old example that has the progession of prerequsites as Jesus used:

He that eateth and digesteth his food shall live,
he that eateth not shall die.

The prerequsites to live is one must digest. But one must first eat before he can digest.

So the phrase "he that eatheth not" logically imples one has not digested and therefore cannot live. It would be redundant and illogical to say "he that eatheth not, and does not digest the food he has not eaten, shall die"

False. Again, He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief.

You continue to mix subjects. The subject of Mk 16:16a is salvation and the subject of Mk 16:16b is condemnation and the qualifications for each is different.

You post "Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief"
Again, the progression Jesus used is one must believe before he can be baptized and be baptized before he can be saved.

Therefore "unbelief" is the same thing as not being baptized for the unbeliever does not meet the prerequsite to be baptized. He must first believe THEN he can be baptized.

Yet nowhere does the Bible say that whoever is not baptized will be condemned. Jesus did say, He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Mk 16:16b "he that believeth not shall be condemned". Again the phrase "he that beliveth not" INCLUDES not being baptized. So the unbelieving person who has not been baptized because of his unbelief is condemned. The bible teaches bapism saves, 1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, Mk 16:16; Rom 6:3-7; Col 2:12-14 so that logically implies that NOT being bpatized is a condemned state. The bible does not contradict itself.

Since Jesus clarifies the first clause with "but he who does not believe will be condemned," then baptism signifies salvation and there are not two conditions to being saved here. Where did Jesus mention two conditions in these 9 verses? John 3:15 - that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 6:29 - Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:47 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. John 11:25 - Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. John 6:26 - And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?" Did Jesus forget to mention baptism?


Is that what Jesus said in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26? Which prerequisite steps did He use here? Simply BELIEVES. Jesus NEVER said whoever is not baptized will not be saved. You seem to have more faith in baptism for salvation than you do in Jesus. That's not believing in Him but believing in baptism.


So you admit that believes precedes baptism and believes is not baptism. These are two distinct things. I already showed you where Jesus said 9 different times that whoever believes will be saved (without mentioning baptism). Now read Acts 10:43 - whoever (gets water baptized? NO) believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Acts 13:39 - all that (get water baptized? NO) believe is justified from all things.. Acts 16:31 - Believe in the Lord Jesus, (and get baptized? NO. Simply believe) and you will be saved. The Bible says believe and be saved, yet you say believe and still remain lost. Who should I believe? You or the Bible?





An unbeliever cannot be saved whether he gets baptized or not. There are plenty of unbelievers (and I'm not talking about atheists) that get water baptized in various false religions and cults, but they don't truly believe. They may believe in the existence of Christ and in the historical facts about Him, but a saved believer trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation and not in works. Anything short of faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of salvation leaves you an unbeliever.





That is absolutely false. Believe does not include baptism. Believing is trusting in Christ for salvation. Baptism is being immersed in water afterwards. Two distinct actions. Trying to shoe horn baptism into believe is flawed hermeneutics. Do you also try to shoe horn good works in general into believe? Do you teach that believe is a synecdoche for good works as well? This is works salvation anyway you slice it.

Let people simply compare and contrast:

Jesus - he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved
mailmandan - he that beliveth is saved and can be baptized later if he desires

A world of difference between the two. You are simpy trying change what Jesus said for no other reason than to force it to fit your theology. You are not giving me an a valid interpretaion or even a valid argument on Mk 16:16.


All salvic verses do not mention the blood of Christ nor grace. So that must mean, according to your "interpretation", the blood of Christ, grace along with bpatism are not necessary to salvation.

Must or will? Keeping His commandments is not forced or legalistic for those who love God. What do you believe it means to "keep" His commandments?

Keeping > OBEYING His commandments is how one loves Christ.

CHrist does not force anyone to obey His commands, that obey because they love Him.

But the point being: no obeying = no love.

You read the Bible through the lens of works salvation. Keep yourselves in the love of God is supplemented with three circumstantial participles of means in the original; they answer the question, "How does one keep himself in the love of God?" By building yourselves up in your most holy faith; by praying in the Holy Spirit; and by looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. Was Peter, Barnabas and the rest of the Jews keeping themselves in the love of God in this situation at Antioch in Galatians 2:11-15? Was anything said about them not remaining saved? The phrase "keep yourselves in His love" does not convey the idea that we need to keep God loving us by good works to maintain our salvation. The word "keep" means to attend to carefully, take care of, guard. We do this by building ourselves up in our most holy faith; by praying in the Holy Spirit; and by looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. If we temporarily stumble in an area of our life, does that mean in those moments that we are attending to carefully, taking care of, guarding the love of God? Jude did not say here to keep yourself saved by works.

I have partici[ated on various religious forums for many years. I have yet to come acroos that forum, that poster that showed me the verses where Jesus said "Do nothing and thou shalt be saved".

Agan, Jesus equates love to obeying His commandments. Logically then Jude's command means for one to keep himself in the love of God means one must keep on keeping God's commandments...."He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." Jn 14:21

Without the blood of Christ, none of us would be holy, without spot, without blame.

Johnsaid Christ wshed us from our sins in His blood, Rev 1:5

Jn 19:34 jesus shed that blood that washes away sin in His death
Rom 6:3-7, by NO COINCIDENCE it is water baptism that puts on into the death of Christ to contact that shed blood. Faith only is dead, no verse say a dead faith puts on into Christ's death.

You need to read verse 6 and 7 together. 1 John 1:6-7 - IF we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. Does that describe a Christian to you? 1 John 3:10 - By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 1 John 2:11 - But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes. As you can clearly see, those who walk in darkness are children of the devil, not Christians. But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of lost unbelievers. Walking in the light is descriptive of saved believers. Only saved believers are in the light. Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. 2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? Lost unbelievers walk in darkness, not in the light. Genuine saved believers walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

Both verse begin withthe conditonal wrod "IF". SO it is a choice Christans have to make to choose to either walk in light or walk in darkness, Christ does not force the Christian agiasnt his will to walk in either. Those that choose to love Christ will walk in llight, ie, obey/keep His commands.


The unavoidable implication of the verse is that the CHristian must choose to walk in the light if Christ blood is to continue to wash away all sins. John did not say IF YOU CONTINUE TO DO NOTHING Christ's blood continues washes away all sins. So the implication is that salvation is not all one sided but BOTH God and man have a role in savlation. God and Christ did their part by coming to earth and shedding blood for mankind. Man has a part by obeying Christ so that blood will wash away sins. Christ's blood does not randomly, unconditionally or for some unkown resaon wash away men's sins. Therefore obeienet works play a mjor role in manmsn saltion and why James could say BY WORKS a man is justified, for God justifes the man with the obedient faith. Do works in and of themselves justify? No. Again, it takes a specific work, an OBEDIENCE to God's will for work to justify. Since God made obedience necessary to being saved, then it takes BOTH God and OBEDIENCE to be saved. Savation is not possible without both.

God ALONE will NEVER save the man who remains disobedient to Him.

You need to have faith that trusts exclusively in Christ for salvation and not in water and works. If our faith is not trusting exclusively in Christ for salvation, then we are still in darkness and walk in darkness regardless of how religious we think we are and try to be.





You turned this into salvation by works. Being faithful unto death could include any number of works, according to your logic. From beginning (Ephesians 2:8) to end (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith in Christ. Keeping Christ's works (not our own works) is accomplished first by "the word of their testimony" which we speak. "Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them [past tense]: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world" (1 John 4:4). The word, "keeps," (same Greek word for "keep" His commandments - John 14:15) in Revelation 2:26, comes from the Greek word tereo Strongs #5083 and means to keep, to guard, to watch over, preserve. The only way to keep His (Christ’s) works, is to continually trust in what He accomplished for us on the Cross. The way that these great and wonderful benefits become ours is because we trust exclusively in Christ for redemption (Romans 4:5; Philippians 3:9).





Only those with faith walk in the light. When you say faithful obedience, you then imply salvation by works. Those who walk in the light practice righteousness and not sin. Works salvationists does not do this. Without faith it's impossible to please God. I do not teach what James refers to as "faith only," which is an empty profession of faith.





Those who believe have already repented and have already confessed. Those who submit to believer's baptism do so because they already believe and are saved (Acts 10:43-47).

Repentance is not possible without first believing. You have not biblically shown it to be.

 

[SeaBass]

I was with you until this post. I have no idea of what you are trying to convey here at all.

Some take Eph 2:9 where Paul said "not of works" and try to make this mean Paul is excluding ALL works when he is only excluding works of merit. Paul makes it clear, in Rom 6 for example, that obeidnet works are necessary to salvation. So Paul is in no way excluding obedient works in Eph 2:9. Was Noah earning his salvation by his work in building the ark?

Mailmandan also posted ""faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works"

I am simply asking can one who becomes a CHristian remain saved if he never does any good works?

 

[homwardbound]

I'm not looking at it from any perspective. You are the one making the statement. I don't know about a Church saying this, but this is the first time I heard such a statment ever, that there are two kinds of sins, fleshly and spiritual and baptism is only for the spiritual. So, I asked a question, how does one eliminate the fleshly sins, if not by baptism. You made the statment, so I assume you have an answer.

By God alone are all sins eliminated and by no other, either you beleive God or you don't

 

[homwardbound]

It is faith that established the Law of Moses, and though we are no longer under that law, we are under the new covenant containing commandments and therefore we are now under the law of Christ.

Would that be God's law of Love best describe din 1 Cor. 13:4-13
Is not his type of love the fulfillment of all Law?

 

[homwardbound]

Was building the ark optional for Noah?

I think a big yes, and he did build it as a response to God in Faith (trust) to God, and is what it is all,about whom do you trust, that brings forth life and death? Self, other flesh, or God who is a Spirit and can only be worshiped in Spirit and truth?

 

[homwardbound]

Christ has given us His word, if you chose not to obey it, you will have to deal with the wrath, you can reject Jesus, and he will forgive you, you can reject God and He will forgive you, but when you reject the written word of God (the revelation witnessed by the Holy Spirit, also known today as the bible) you will not be forgiven...

You must obey the Gospel or be judged by it :

Matthew 12:32 (NKJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

John 12:48 (NKJV)
[SUP]48 [/SUP]He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

The Holy Spirits job is to live through the believer at the beleivers free will, in agreement with God through Son, As to where God does the talking through us, we our-self out of the way, for God's amazing salvation to be revealed for the hearers as in the day of Pentecost, they chose freely to believe and is the same for today right here and right now

Do you beleive Chirst took away the sin of the world in Father's sight at his death?
Do you believe he is risen in the order of Melchizedek?
Do you beleive we are under new laws after the death, burial, resurrection of Christ the Son?
Do you beleive Christ came to give us new life?
And by the cross is this new life given a gift from Father to us via the cross of Son?

Otherwise it is Blasphemy, for unbelief will not be forgiven,
So what do you choose belief or unbelief ?
John 16 and 17, pretty clear on this.

 

[homwardbound]

what you think your sly? Who said there were spiritual sins? the only person I heard claim this was you. Now your saying it was me?? Wow.

Any other bright ideas??

All sins are commited against God. Which means our spiritual souls are dead/. Unless our spiritual souls are cleansed, We are doomed to eternity apart from God.

No physical baptism in water can was our spiritual souls. They can only be cleansed BY GOD.

Eternally greatful, there can today be no Spiritual sin why?
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Since all sin is condemned to flesh, there is no other way to sin left except by flesh and is why Paul calls us to die daily to the flesh with Christ's flesh back at the cross, so we might see the new life in the Spirit and the best we can do is die daily and be alive daily in trusting God to do the work we know we can't do in the flesh, and if we do we get pride and boastfulness in the way, and thank God for we will be humbled if we are God's
So just ask God what to say, do or not say and or do; as Christ did while he was here on earth. And all strife, stress, worry is gone out of ones way by Chirst alone connecting us to Father to lead as Father led Son, we are now Sons as well by Faith

 

[homwardbound]

You reject the word of God,

Mark 16:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

There is no clearer scripture in all of Gods word that one must be baptized to be saved, and all you think you need to do is the same as devils, believe.

You're right when you say all you need to do is believe on Him, what is sad is you have not clue what it means to "believe on Him" it means to do and keep 'ALL' His commands. you cannot believe on someone and reject His word.

We are speaking of Spirit Baptism of Father in the Spirit and you are speaking of water Baptism
John's Baptism is water and Christ's is Spirit with fire and that is clear, are you feeling the heat yet, have you asked God to separate truth from error, and turn on the fire to burn your flesh dross?

 

[homwardbound]

Nope, but more important, he was not declared righteous until he obeyed and built it as commanded by the Lord. it was his obedience that made him righteous and why God saved him and his family

Was peter then not considered righteous by Father through Son?
He denied Christ three times being in his flesh. He was called to go the gentile race and started it with the house of Cornelius and failed further in his battle between the self flesh and the Spirit of God in the lead
Was rebuked in Galatians by Paul, whom God went and Got, because Peter failed in his mission he was called to do
Yet God still loved Peter the same as all, including you right here right now, regardless if you obey or not

See Abraham if Justified by works
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

[Jabberjaw]

We are speaking of Spirit Baptism of Father in the Spirit and you are speaking of water Baptism
John's Baptism is water and Christ's is Spirit with fire and that is clear, are you feeling the heat yet, have you asked God to separate truth from error, and turn on the fire to burn your flesh dross?

Matthew 3:11 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Notice who baptizes with HS and Fire (and you better pray you never experience the baptism of fire)

Jesus alone baptizes with HS,

Now look at what the disciples were commissioned to do :

 Matthew 28:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Now pay attention, before you ask me to have the Lord explain things to me, you may take your own advice, see closely where they were told to "Go" and "make disciples of all nations" now notice here, He said "baptizing them" and who did he tell to baptize? He told His disciples to to baptize... His disciples CANNOT baptize with the HS only Christ can, notice He did not say "Go therefore and I'll make disciples of all nations, Ill baptize them"

HS and Fire baptism can ONLY be done by Christ, water baptism (the only saving baptism of Eph. 4:5) is done by men.

 

[homwardbound]

God does work many ways with man, but in not case does God actually do the work. The Holy Spirit works in us for us to do His will. If God actually did the work, then all men would be saved, since God desires all men to be saved. Unfortunately, He does not work that way. You, your desire, wish, your decision is the fulcrum that determines if you will be saved or if not. God will judge YOU, on what YOU did, not what HE did.

Enter in my Faithful servant twenty, thirty and even sixty fold, at the end of the story of the men thsat were given the talents and what they did with them, showing each one's view of God
I am a responder, (the creation, not the creator) to Father thanks to Christ, I have entered into his courts with thanksgiving and praise, here as his ambassador representing the love, joy, peace and righteousness Father gave to me to spread all over as the newspaper boy not an editor
The good news of Christ's finished work for you and all who will believe God at God's word, it is finished and he gave up the ghost, then rose three days later, witnessed by many that he is alive and is ready to give you new life in him, if you will believe and stop our arrogant ways of the flesh to be the center of things, noticed and accepted
When we are already accepted in the beloved
Ephesians 1:6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
And sealed in:
Ephesians 1:13 in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

And forgiven past tense:
Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

[homwardbound]

Unfortunately again, you don't have the Father dwelling in you.

Okay and you are God and you are the Judge.
I shall not be judged by no man, I do not even judge myself. I am judged of God only and am safe and secure in Father's abode thanks to Son Jesus Christ and what he not only did for me, but for all that beleive God
1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Romans 3:25 whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

 

[homwardbound]

the only person I see making doctrine is you. Water Baptism has been the norm since Pentecost. It has always meant entrance into Christ, His body.
But none of these events saves us in and of themselves. Belief alone does not save, repentance once does not save, baptism does not save, but each of them are requirements that make up how one is saved. Salvation of our souls, is all about living, the doing, being a follower, and imitator of Christ, to be perfected by love and obedience. Our salvation is a working out with God, through faith in Christ, that saves us.

The water Baptism that started from John was for the first time in public and was given to all to come and be water baptized until the Christ showed up for this and John was to testify to this that the messiah has arrived in the Spirit of Elijah, and said to the pharisees that he was a voice crying in the wilderness.
After Christ's Baptism and John's witness of Christ, water Baptism was to decrease and Spiritual Baptism was to be in effect after the resurrected ascended Christ and the day of Pentecost came to be
Sorry you do not see this praying Father shows you and if not I trust Father as to why not, since Father knows all motives and will by this have Mercy on whom Father choose and not man
Thank you from The holy Spirit of Father through Son

 

[homwardbound]

Now we not only have confusion over faith/works, but the false notion of OSAS has entered into the equation.

For God's Spirit testifies with my Spirit that God has saved me, or not?
So apparently this is not yet done with you is that true at least by your post it shows this, so true or false
Praying God has Mercy on you and you receive it and do not take it for granted as many have, like the Corinthians did at frst and is why Paul wrote them 1 Cor. to straighten out the heresy they went by using being forgiven as an excuse to mis behave God's loving way and not care for their neighbors

 

[homwardbound]

Kinda missed the discussion. We are not speaking about the reconciliation of the world by Christ to God.

We are speaking about how man is reconciled to God, which is by faith and is being saved through that faith.

Is that not what I said it is by Faith and noit by works if it were by works then:
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

 

[homwardbound]

Once saved always saved, another false doctrine :

Acts 8:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done.

Simon was saved, you have to reject this, the bible says he was saved.

Now Simon falls from grace:

Acts 8:18-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]saying, "Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit."

Simon sinned, falling from Grace, thinking he could "buy" the Holy Spirit, and what does Peter tell him :

Acts 8:20-24 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
[SUP]21 [/SUP]You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
[SUP]22[/SUP]Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then Simon answered and said, "Pray to the Lord for me, that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me."

We see Simon saved, falling from Grace, rebuked by Peter, Simon repents and asks Peter to pray for him that those things (what things? lost salvation) don't happen to him.

Your once saved always saved is shot down with these few verses.

I thank God everyday that god has saved me and am saved thanks to Son Christ, and do not take this for granted, rather appreciate it.

 

[homwardbound]

you contradict yourself, you first say above "God said it is a gift, any gift has no work attached to it", then farther down you say:

"Christ did the work for us and made us by his work righteous to the Father through him so we can get the gift of the new life"

Now explain how it is "we can get" without doing "some thing" (work) to "get" it?

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: