SALVATION ONLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT WORKS!

[eternally-gratefull]

Can you imagine.....a free gift having stipulations......not a free gift if it is attached to hoops to jump through!

I pray they do not treat their kids the way they think God treats us

 

[dcontroversal]

One could not those things WITHOUT Jesus' death burial and resurrection.

Yeah, but according to you we need these things IN ADDITION TO JESUS for salvation...

WAS the sacrifice of Jesus good enough to please the Father? YES OR NO!

IF YES...then HIS substitutionary death was sufficient, pleases the Father and earned my salvation...

IF NO.....then Jesus is a weak God if he needs my help to save me....

YES...or .....NO...Which is it Sea Perch?

 

[SeaBass]

Strawman.

I asked, Does God need you to work, to know if your faith is real? yes or no..

And I answered that God needs nothing from me.

But if I desire to be saved then my faith must be an obedient one. Why? For that is wht God has required of them that desire to be saved.



Does God need "faith only" from men?

 

[Timeline]

1 Cor. 9:24-27
[SUP]

24 [/SUP]Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; [SUP]27 [/SUP]but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

 

[dcontroversal]

I pray they do not treat their kids the way they think God treats us

Yeah no doubt as I can see it now....

Here son I have a birthday gift for you...if you cut the grass and split the wood for the wood stove.....
or
Here Honey....I have a new ring for you.....if you scratch my back and do the dishes...

Can you imagine the audacity and slap in the face of Jesus to say what he accomplished was not sufficient and He needs our help to keep us saved or save us.....

 

[SeaBass]

Your missing the bigger point Sea Perch....

Salvation/justification is based upon faith apart from works as Christ DID THE WORK and all we have to do is believe...

Sanctification of our physical lives is an ongoing process by submitting to the word of God and being a true disciple of Jesus....you blend the two and hence preach heresy!

Rom 6:17,18


--they were servants of sin.
--they obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
--then tehy were made freed from sin (justified)

I see Paul putting obedience BEFORE justification. Doing nothing justifies no one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And I answered that God needs nothing from me.

Thank you. You just proves you do not need to work to be saved. Because God already knows if your faith is real or not.

But if I desire to be saved then my faith must be an obedient one. Why? For that is wht God has required of them that desire to be saved.

So now your going the other way. God does need you to work to accept your faith, which is it??

Does God need "faith only" from men?

No.

God just needs faith.

He knows those who truly have faith will work. and those who have mere(dead faith) belief will not work.

That is why God is the one who decides when to save someone and not men.

 

[dcontroversal]

He who begun a good work in you WILL COMPLETE it until the day of Christ. Phil 1: 6

They do not have faith in the power of God to do what he claims he will do. They are still trusting self. Thats why they refuse to see it. They refuse to acknowledge the power of God

Yeah no doubt and I will add....The seal that the Holy Spirit places upon us must be made of sugar water with red dye in it.....seeing how it can be so easily washed away<-----NOT!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah no doubt and I will add....The seal that the Holy Spirit places upon us must be made of sugar water with red dye in it.....seeing how it can be so easily washed away<-----NOT!

yeah, Like I could ever break the seal of God, since when am I more powerful than God?

 

[SeaBass]

NO doubt as he is called BROTHER SAUL, before his immersion....which has nothing to do with salvation.

"Brother" was a common greeting among Jews. Saul was still in his sins on the raod to Demacus and remained in those sins until he was baptized. Why would much later in Damascus would Ananias command Saul to wash away his sins if he was already saved (had his sins cleansed away) back on the road?

 

[dcontroversal]

Rom 6:17,18


--they were servants of sin.
--they obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine
--then tehy were made freed from sin (justified)

I see Paul putting obedience BEFORE justification. Doing nothing justifies no one.

Go do a study of the word (OF)

It is the FAITH OF JESUS that

saves us
justifies us
keeps us saved

The believed God (just as Abraham) and it was put to their account......

 

[SeaBass]

Grace is NEVER CONDITIONAL. Otherwise, it is not Grace

So Naaman healed himself when he dipped in the river 7 times? Grace had NOTHING to do with it?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So Naaman healed himself when he dipped in the river 7 times? Grace had NOTHING to do with it?

Nope

Grace, Unearned favor.

If it must be earned it is not grace.

learn what grace is.. or is that to much for you to do.

 

[dcontroversal]

"Brother" was a common greeting among Jews. Saul was still in his sins on the raod to Demacus and remained in those sins until he was baptized. Why would much later in Damascus would Ananias command Saul to wash away his sins if he was already saved (had his sins cleansed away) back on the road?

SEA PERCH do you have the bends......Why do we not see it found through all other Jewish writings....but rather we see it applied biblically unto brothers in Christ and for him to use it in context has nothing to do with your attempted twist of the truth to fit your heretical teachings dude.

 

[SeaBass]

this makes no sense.

The thread speaks about how one is saved, Not what happens after one is saved.

Your twisting things again

You posted that one saved WILL WORK. Yet the title of the thread says salvation is ONLY possible WITHOUT works.

More contradictions.

 

[Cassian]

And this is different? Men have done this since scripture was first written. Does that means scripture is not true. SHould be disregarded, should be done away with?

No it means that individual man has always been incorrect. No man has ever imposed his own ideas upon scripture. The Holy Spirit has guarded and preserved Christ Gospel as it was given ONCE in the beginning to the saints. It has not changed in 2000 years.

is it scriptures fault that men twist what it means, or mans fault?

always man's fault.

lol. If you would look at scripture. you most certainly could disprove it. You just admitted you are incapable of rightly dividing the word of truth, WHy is this. When paul commands us ALL to rightly divide the word of truth, And now you saying this is not possible?

quite the opposite. To rightly divide the Truth one must know the Truth. Divide means to teach. How can you teach somethiong you know nothing about.
This is what all these men have done in the last 500 years. They imposed their meaning upon scripture first, then they procede to divide it within the paradigm of their own interpretation, just like you are doing.


[/B][/COLOR]

Unfounded assertions? Yuo do not know history very well do you? Maybe you need to study that also.

I would say that of your view. It has never been a teaching of scripture from the beginning. You have not given one piece of evidence that the Apostles taught what you state to the early Church.

As all false teachers, they must rely only upon their own personal interpretation, rather than what scripture actually means. The surest test of false teaching is that if it has not been believed from the beginning it is false.

Well I do not follow either of them. I would be a fool to follow any man, because we are not told to follow men, But to USE SCRIPTURE to test what any man teaches.

How can you do that when you don't know what they mean. You are even now trying to determine what it means, and in so doing you are relying upon yourself, a man. You should heed your own words here. Do not depend on man, they have always been wrong, as so you would be also.

But history shows that even a layman can study scripture and find out how to be saved, Timothy we are told knew enough from just the OT and his study of such to know how to be saved.

But he was taught the scripture. He did not study to determine for himself what they might mean. You have never been taught the Gospel either. You have simply yanked a text, called the Bible, isolated it from its full content, and from its context and set it up so you as an individual can determine just what it might mean. The Bible is NOT a textbook, nor a treatise. It is not the Truth. Christ IS TRUTH. His revelation of which scripture is a part, is a witness to that Truth.

Scripture is not the issue, men is the issue, And the Jews spent hundreds of years writting things outside of scripture. And saying exactly what your claiming, that scripture alone is error.

I have never claimed scripture is in error. Jesus condemned the Jews for their traditions adding to the OT oracles, and now we have men creating all kinds of traditions based on their personal interpretation of a text.
Sola scripture is error because man separated the meaning from it so they could determine for themselves what it should mean. The Holy Spirit did not give the Apostles the Bible. They gave to them God's revelation. It is this revelation that was taught in the early Church. They did not even have a Bible as you know it until the 4th century.

You have yet to learn from their mistake. why is that?

[/quote] I learned that Protestants with sola scriptura could not possibly be the ONCE given Gospel. If Christ promised never to leave or forsake His Body and that the Holy Spirit would guard the Gospel and that it would remain as unified as He is with the Father, Protestantism is NOT the Gospel.
It has made Christ's Gospel null and void with its smorgasborg practice of developing one's own religion.

 

[SeaBass]

Can you imagine.....a free gift having stipulations......not a free gift if it is attached to hoops to jump through!

It is unbiblical, unreasonable and illogical to think free gifts NEVER have conditions.

 

[dcontroversal]

Nope

Grace, Unearned favor.

If it must be earned it is not grace.

learn what grace is.. or is that to much for you to do.

You cannot reason with someone who quotes O.T. scripture dealing with a physical aspect when it is applied to N.T. theology and eternal salvation....NAAMAN and his healing has exactly what to do with becoming a child of God thru faith? NOTHING!

Again we see another twisty pretzel from Sea Perch.....

 

[dcontroversal]

It is unbiblical, unreasonable and illogical to think free gifts NEVER have conditions.

Probably so when viewed from a mind void of faith and salvation which seems tied to your reasoning which is worldly!

 

[SeaBass]

Great demonstration of you lack of contextual understanding. You pull out a fragment of a verse and build your doctrine upon it without considering what it is saying. Paul is most certainly not teaching that grace can be received in vain. Wow you really are unbelievable.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

2 Cor 6:1 proves grace can be received in vain as 1 Cor 15 (which you have been posting) shows one can believe in vain.