Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you saying "no", that Christ did not die for every man?

dieing or everyone and saving everyone is not the same

jesus did not die for all things against him, he did not die for rejection of the HS

 

[SeaBass]

The answer to your question was given by Jesus. John 3:19-20. Pay close attention as there is an absence of works present.

Every man has the ability, the knowledge to choose between good and evil. Part if you will of the curse of sin upon mankind. Still comes down to belief. Broad way or narrow way its still belief. Joshua said it very simply choose ye this day whom ye will serve as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So men cannot be born totally depraved.

Again, did die for evey man, Heb 2:9 but every man will not be saved for evey man will not obey Christ, Heb 5:9, and take advantage of what Christ did for them.

It is obedience to God's will that separates the saved from the lost, not a dead faith only. If faith only saved the the devils that believe and tremble would be saved.

 

[notuptome]

Then why would Peter, in Acts 8, COMMAND Simon to repent if Peter knew repentance was forever "impossible"?

Simon was a sorcerer. Simon was not saved. Should we believe that Simon could continue to be a sorcerer and a Christian? Peter is saying that Simon was to stop believing in the powers of darkness and come to the Light of the gospel in Christ.

Are you so locked into this false gospel of works that you cannot see even simple obvious truth in the word of God? Restoration of salvation is impossible if it could be lost and it cannot so relax because it would shame Christ. That is what the writer of Hebrews is conveying in chapter 6 the first six verses.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

No, it is a faulty question, because there is no such thing as a christian who would never work.



No.

You add the word must.

I showed how they WILL

A huge difference between must and will.

Must denotes merit. Will denotes being empowered based on gratitude, and not merit



Wrong.

A christian can not lose salvation by not doing work. Because there is no such thing as a christian who would not work out of gratitude and power given them by what God did.

Your teaching merit. There is no merit in salvation. period

It is not a faulty question, it is just a question some here do not want to answer.

Can a Chrstian NEVER do any good works yet still be saved?

Everyone here, that has any understanding of the bible, knows that the answer is a resounding NO!!

Yet by answering "no" that makes the Christians' salvation CONDITIONAL upon doing those good works.

 

[SeaBass]

Simon was a sorcerer. Simon was not saved. Should we believe that Simon could continue to be a sorcerer and a Christian? Peter is saying that Simon was to stop believing in the powers of darkness and come to the Light of the gospel in Christ.

Are you so locked into this false gospel of works that you cannot see even simple obvious truth in the word of God? Restoration of salvation is impossible if it could be lost and it cannot so relax because it would shame Christ. That is what the writer of Hebrews is conveying in chapter 6 the first six verses.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Nothing in the context says Simon was not saved. Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized"

So according to Christ's words of Mk 16:16 Simon was in a saved position. So it makes no sense for Peter to command him to repent if that wre supposedly forever impossible.

 

[notuptome]

So men cannot be born totally depraved.

Again, did die for evey man, Heb 2:9 but every man will not be saved for evey man will not obey Christ, Heb 5:9, and take advantage of what Christ did for them.

It is obedience to God's will that separates the saved from the lost, not a dead faith only. If faith only saved the the devils that believe and tremble would be saved.

If you do not stop digging that hole you will never get out of it. The scripture does speak of those who have had their conscience seared as with a hot iron and who are now unable to come to the truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[iamsoandso]

Eternally-grateful here is another problem there are people out there that are a part of a church. They are only taught what Jesus did for us on the cross. They believe and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, get baptized in His name, and repent for sins at time of confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Their church then tells them from this point forward they can live however they want no matter how good or bad, so some take that as a right to treat people like crap, keep stealing, live provocative lives, and even murder with out having to do anything else.

Well known teachers, preachers, and other members of God's church as come forward saying how this is dangerous teaching which leads some to fall away. They turn from Jesus of following their new master satan.

what church teaches this i did not know there was churches that teach they could continue to steal,sin ect.,,,,,,,,,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally-grateful here is another problem there are people out there that are a part of a church. They are only taught what Jesus did for us on the cross. They believe and confess Jesus as Lord and Savior, get baptized in His name, and repent for sins at time of confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Their church then tells them from this point forward they can live however they want no matter how good or bad, so some take that as a right to treat people like crap, keep stealing, live provocative lives, and even murder with out having to do anything else.

And you think those churches, and those people are from God.

I keep hearing of these churches, but I have never been to one or seen one. Can you name one? or are you just hearing of them but have no experience of such churches?

Many legalistic churches call my church licentious. evil. yet we confront Christians who sin. We have excommunicated people who have been confronted in the biblical model. and still refuse to repent. Alot of the people I know have overcome drug and alcohol addiction. and many other things.

Grace is not a liscense to sin, as so many people want to say, it is a lisence to stop sin, and find the life God designed us to have, Which frees us from bondage, and empowers us to show love and forgiveness to the world. Which God uses to bring those who are sick and dieing to Christ where they can find life and joy.

Well known teachers, preachers, and other members of God's church as come forward saying how this is dangerous teaching which leads some to fall away. They turn from Jesus of following their new master satan.

A dog returns to his own vomit.

Many imposgters are in the church who claim to be saved WHo claim to have been freed, WHo claims to be Gods children.

Then return to their own vomit (sin)

A dog whi has not been made a new creature is still a dog, and his true self will eventually be revealed. The same with the anti-christ which I showed you in John, who were never saved, but left to reveal who they really were.

Your doctrine sounds good to the ears, It sounds right, It sounds like something a God would do,

But we are warned against believing in things just because they sound right. but are evil. This is one of those things.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is not a faulty question, it is just a question some here do not want to answer.

Can a Chrstian NEVER do any good works yet still be saved?

Everyone here, that has any understanding of the bible, knows that the answer is a resounding NO!!

Yet by answering "no" that makes the Christians' salvation CONDITIONAL upon doing those good works.

And your still wrong

If salvation is conditional on works, then it must be merited.

Nothing in scripture teaches this.

Again, If you want to stand in front of your god based on your own merit of works. I wish you the best. I can not do that, Because I have to admit, I can do no work of merit which will ever save me, I must rely on the work of Christ alone and his promise alone.

Good luck..

 

[notuptome]

Nothing in the context says Simon was not saved. Acts 8:13 "Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized"

So according to Christ's words of Mk 16:16 Simon was in a saved position. So it makes no sense for Peter to command him to repent if that wre supposedly forever impossible.

Wow! Again you are a real case. Simon responded to the preaching of Philip verse 12 then Simon also got saved and was baptized. Peters command to repent was in direct relation to Simons desire to use the power of God for money. That was not a repentance unto salvation but repenting of a sin that would have prevented Simon from maturing in his walk with the Lord.

Mark 16:16 is only a distraction offered by you to confuse the issue.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

dieing or everyone and saving everyone is not the same

jesus did not die for all things against him, he did not die for rejection of the HS

Jesus died to offer salvation to all mankind, but the one's who reject Him ( Or as you say against Him, reject Holy Spirit ) that is that person choice to do. If this person who has spent most his life rejecting or being against God turns around when they turn 80 or 90 years old and says they now believe and accept Him then they will be saved too.

That is what we are suppose to be doing going to those who do not believe, and help them see the light. If they listen or not that falls on them, but our Lord Jesus Christ offers that salvation to them to accept. It is up to them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus died to offer salvation to all mankind, but the one's who reject Him ( Or as you say against Him, reject Holy Spirit ) that is that person choice to do. If this person who has spent most his life rejecting or being against God turns around when they turn 80 or 90 years old and says they now believe and accept Him then they will be saved too.

That is what we are suppose to be doing going to those who do not believe, and help them see the light. If they listen or not that falls on them, but our Lord Jesus Christ offers that salvation to them to accept. It is up to them.

I agree with you here.

But what kind of hope can we offer one is we say trust God and he will save you and give you eternal life. But be warned this eternal life can be lost.

there is no hope in that, or a reason to trust. Because we would have to continue to trust in self and not God

 

[Apostol2013]

i feel that it must be said, yet again, that faith is always expressed through works, but the works are not what saves.

If a man is starving on the verge of death, and he is given a plate of food, the man has FAITH that the food can save him from starvation. Will the man continue repeating "I know this food can save me. I trust this food can save me," or does he immediately begin eating?

If we have faith, then we are saved. If we have faith, then we will trust that God is real and active in the world, and that His Word tells us Iwhat we should be doing.
If we have faith, then we will simply do what God asks of us, because we have faith that His ways are the right ways, and that our ways are not.


Works always follow faith, but works are a love offering, and the faith in Christ is the guilt offering.

Faith is the substance in the things hoped for yet being unseen . When we have faith we act uoon it , very true what you are saying , and what is our faith it is christ . For the works we do our not our own but the works of live in christ in all humbleness loving righteousness and hating sin , that we are but no more dead to our works and made alive through the works of Christ our redeemer .,

 

[Apostol2013]

So men cannot be born totally depraved.

Again, did die for evey man, Heb 2:9 but every man will not be saved for evey man will not obey Christ, Heb 5:9, and take advantage of what Christ did for them.

It is obedience to God's will that separates the saved from the lost, not a dead faith only. If faith only saved the the devils that believe and tremble would be saved.

But it is a dead faith that produces disobedience , for if we then have faith we will be doers of the word not just hearers

 

[kennethcadwell]

Eternally-grateful this is churches from almost all denominations, and it is part of the wake up movement started because back in the 1980's and early 1990's most churches taught their congregations only John 3:16. They realized how dangerous this was cause it led to a lot of what we see in the past and even today of making ok hatred movements, discrimination, and false doctrine.

The congregations of these churches believe they are true members of God's church so they believe they are doing nothing wrong from what they are taught. The pastors as well come from the same line of teaching, so they in turn teach what they have been taught. We are now to wake up these people and teach them the truth, your actions or works will lead you away from our Lord. Repent and start walking the righteous path.

 

[LT]

James "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only"

Works do save.

If the man had faith only he would have died for faith only, being void of works, does not allow for him to do the work of eating. So for the man to be saved and live his faith MUST include the work of eating for without this work he dies. So at some point for theman to be saved and live he must do a work.

Also, if doing the work of eating saves the man from starving to death, did he merit his own salvation by doing that work of eating?

well now you have taken a simple illustration too far to remain true to Scripture. In the Scripture, even if a person has no chance to do good work (the thief on the cross) they are still saved.

James is not a book speaking of salvation, but of maturity in Christ. The theme is sanctification, not salvation. If your Gospel message comes from the letter of James, then you are missing the milk. Babies choke on the meat found in James. Let's not choke out young Christians by burdening them with what is expected of the mature.
You don't expect a toddler to pay rent, yet a grown man is expected to do so.

There is a balance, and it is not found in salvation by faith + works.

 

[kennethcadwell]

There is hope in this which is why not only salvation, but we are to show and teach others as well how one is suppose to walk after receiving the salvation.

But do it with a loving hand with out putting heavy burdens on them. Let them know that if they falter or sin again not to worry it is part of human nature. Not teach them you can never sin again, and if you do you are not truly saved like some teach, even some I have seen on here teach this falsehood.


They must be told though they can not continue in non-repented sin, or they are serving the wrong master. The scripture makes it clear you can not serve our Lord Jesus and satan.

I agree with you here.

But what kind of hope can we offer one is we say trust God and he will save you and give you eternal life. But be warned this eternal life can be lost.

there is no hope in that, or a reason to trust. Because we would have to continue to trust in self and not God

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally-grateful this is churches from almost all denominations, and it is part of the wake up movement started because back in the 1980's and early 1990's most churches taught their congregations only John 3:16. They realized how dangerous this was cause it led to a lot of what we see in the past and even today of making ok hatred movements, discrimination, and false doctrine.

The congregations of these churches believe they are true members of God's church so they believe they are doing nothing wrong from what they are taught. The pastors as well come from the same line of teaching, so they in turn teach what they have been taught. We are now to wake up these people and teach them the truth, your actions or works will lead you away from our Lord. Repent and start walking the righteous path.

read jude, and also read james.

these beliefs were in existance in the 1st century, it is not anything new.

In fact, as we see in scripture. Only a few chapters and books are spent fighting this licentious lifestyle and gospel. Most of the NT is written to fight legalism,

this should show us that although licentious beliefs are dangerous and should be fought against, Legalism is a far more dangerous gospel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is hope in this which is why not only salvation, but we are to show and teach others as well how one is suppose to walk after receiving the salvation.

But do it with a loving hand with out putting heavy burdens on them. Let them know that if they falter or sin again not to worry it is part of human nature. Not teach them you can never sin again, and if you do you are not truly saved like some teach, even some I have seen on here teach this falsehood.


They must be told though they can not continue in non-repented sin, or they are serving the wrong master. The scripture makes it clear you can not serve our Lord Jesus and satan.

and this is true.

Many will follow satan and miss out on so much because they have been led astray.

This they will recieve wood hey and straw. yet still be saved, because they never grew to where they can be fed meat, but remained babes in Christ. who did not know any better.

but again, legalism is a far more dangerous doctrine, and far more prevelant,

 

[LT]

I think some here see the "Sunday morning only" type Christians as being "grace and faith only" Christians. That is a horrible assumption.

Those who don't take Christ seriously come from every denomination and theological background. They are the wolves among sheep.

Their calloused behavior comes from the desires of their own heart, not their doctrine.