Salvation Not Possible Without Works

[SeaBass]

dieing or everyone and saving everyone is not the same

jesus did not die for all things against him, he did not die for rejection of the HS

Faith only proponents keep telling me what Jesus did on the cross is sufficient, no added works are necessary.

I simply point out what Jesus did on the cross he did for every one. So why will every one not be saved? For all will not obey Christ, Heb 5:9.

 

[SeaBass]

And your still wrong

If salvation is conditional on works, then it must be merited.

Nothing in scripture teaches this.

Again, If you want to stand in front of your god based on your own merit of works. I wish you the best. I can not do that, Because I have to admit, I can do no work of merit which will ever save me, I must rely on the work of Christ alone and his promise alone.

Good luck..

You said yourself that Christians WILL WORK. So you are making the Christian's salvation conditional upon those works.

If a Christian's salvation is not CONDITIONAL upon those works then those works are not necessary, only optional, and do not have to be done.

 

[notuptome]

You said yourself that Christians WILL WORK. So you are making the Christian's salvation conditional upon those works.

If a Christian's salvation is not CONDITIONAL upon those works then those works are not necessary, only optional, and do not have to be done.

If only you had the integrity to make the distinction between the believer working and works being necessary to salvation. But alas it is not so.

Service as an onus does not glorify God. Service from love is for the glory of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Wow! Again you are a real case. Simon responded to the preaching of Philip verse 12 then Simon also got saved and was baptized. Peters command to repent was in direct relation to Simons desire to use the power of God for money. That was not a repentance unto salvation but repenting of a sin that would have prevented Simon from maturing in his walk with the Lord.

Mark 16:16 is only a distraction offered by you to confuse the issue.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The context shows that Simon believed and was baptized and was saved per Christ's own words of Mk 16:16. Simon later sinned by trying to buy the power of the Holy Ghost. Peter commanded him to repent of that sin. You have yet to explain why Peter commanded him to repent if that were forever impossible for Simon to do.

 

[LT]

Yes but they go hand and hand....if you do not follow by these standards of the meat in the word then this is where the falling away starts..yes you can then repent and come back to Christ, but not all will repent..this is evident in the scriptures.

Plus if you continue in this dead, useless faith you become deceivers like it says hindering others from their salvation by teaching false doctrine. Which in turn by staying on this path you hinder yourself as well.

My response has to be both yes! and no.

You are absolutely right that we must be seeking holiness! But preaching the grace and mercy of our Father, and the depravity of man without the Spirit, is preaching the Gospel.

The issue at hand is not whether or not we should be doing good works, and encouraging others in the same way, but the issue is putting our works as the variable between heaven and hell.

Preaching works is just as dead as preaching workless faith. There is a balance between 'license to sin' and 'legalism'.

If a person has no assurance in their salvation, then how are they even saved? We can have no assurance if our salvation is based on our deeds.
A person who believes that they have lost salvation every time they get stressed in traffic, or when they get angry with a brother, they are not trusting Christ to save. Is that dependence on Christ, or dependence on self?

 

[Apostol2013]

well now you have taken a simple illustration too far to remain true to Scripture. In the Scripture, even if a person has no chance to do good work (the thief on the cross) they are still saved.

James is not a book speaking of salvation, but of maturity in Christ. The theme is sanctification, not salvation. If your Gospel message comes from the letter of James, then you are missing the milk. Babies choke on the meat found in James. Let's not choke out young Christians by burdening them with what is expected of the mature.
You don't expect a toddler to pay rent, yet a grown man is expected to do so.

There is a balance, and it is not found in salvation by faith + works.

Though I do perceive this the works James is talking abo is in the fruit of the spirit that Christ our lord came to deliver this is the works of God to his salvation that we be not just subject to milk but be introduced to true meat o walk upright for if the newbies are not fortified they are but prey. And worse if they follow doctrine of men and not Christ they are subject to the same faith as these false teachers of false faith so let us be astute and knowledgeable seek to fortify the brethren that their faith be not compromised and be true discerners of the truth a helpmate to each others constantly washing each others feet and clothing and feeding and giving of water to each other that we be well taken care of and strong to enter through the pearly gates , but strong because the right hand of God which is Christ who we have received with great joy ,peace of Christ be unto you

 

[SeaBass]

But it is a dead faith that produces disobedience , for if we then have faith we will be doers of the word not just hearers

Faith only advocates says one is saved by a dead faith only. They claim it is AFTER one is saved that he does works.

What I am trying to find out from the faith only advocates is this: are those post-salvation works mandatory for the Christian.

If they say "yes" then they are making those post-salvation works necessary to salvation.

If they answer no" then they are saying a Christian does not have to do any works; no repentance, no confession, no baptism, no good works in helping fellow Christians and yet still be saved.....(which of course is not possible).

So this is why they are bouncing around all over the place and trying to avoid giving a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the questions I ask.

 

[SeaBass]

well now you have taken a simple illustration too far to remain true to Scripture. In the Scripture, even if a person has no chance to do good work (the thief on the cross) they are still saved.

James is not a book speaking of salvation, but of maturity in Christ. The theme is sanctification, not salvation. If your Gospel message comes from the letter of James, then you are missing the milk. Babies choke on the meat found in James. Let's not choke out young Christians by burdening them with what is expected of the mature.
You don't expect a toddler to pay rent, yet a grown man is expected to do so.

There is a balance, and it is not found in salvation by faith + works.

I just took YOUR example out to its logical conclusions.

A starving man cannot live if he does not do the work of eating.


James is speaking of faith and justification which has everything to do with salvation.

 

[Apostol2013]

I do see the same tune is being played by all that the works produced are of faith the very works done out of love not as a burdensome thing but of great joy and remember the Lord loveth a cheerful giver , so let's give from the abundance of our heart to God , a sweet smelling savour of accasia a sweet aloe given to God in a sincere offering this is the mercy that the Lord speaks of that we love our brethren showing love to them as Christ showed love to us being live pillars of hope for them showing them Christ not ourselves that it is Christ glorified and not ourselves

 

[LT]

Faith only advocates says one is saved by a dead faith only. They claim it is AFTER one is saved that he does works.

What I am trying to find out from the faith only advocates is this: are those post-salvation works mandatory for the Christian.

If they say "yes" then they are making those post-salvation works necessary to salvation.

If they answer no" then they are saying a Christian does not have to do any works; no repentance, no confession, no baptism, no good works in helping fellow Christians and yet still be saved.....(which of course is not possible).

So this is why they are bouncing around all over the place and trying to avoid giving a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the questions I ask.

that's not a logical either/or statement.

what the Word separates, man should not combine.

 

[SeaBass]

No based on if he has faith in God. or faith in self.

Your teaching faith in self (works) . They (the liscentious) teach faith in self (I do not have to stop sin).

Your both on the wrong side of the cross.

CAN A PERSON, AFTER HE HAS BECOME A CHRISTIAN, NEVER DO ANY WORKS AND YET BE SAVED?

 

[kennethcadwell]

If a person has no assurance in their salvation, then how are they even saved? We can have no assurance if our salvation is based on our deeds.
A person who believes that they have lost salvation every time they get stressed in traffic, or when they get angry with a brother, they are not trusting Christ to save. Is that dependence on Christ, or dependence on self?

This is not what I teach, I teach that you will still sin, but you don't have license to sin. You can not serve two masters and your works are clear signs of who you chose to follow. But there is the good news of salvation and to repent when you sin.

I do believe even the worst person can have salvation, but once again that comes back to confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and repentance. So without repentance he will not be forgiven, so the works of repentance is vital.

 

[SeaBass]

nope. just that works are a sign of faith

So if one does not have works that is a sign he has no faith.

Therefore you are making works necessary in order for a person to prove he has faith. So you make the works necessary to salvation as you do faith.

 

[Apostol2013]

Faith only advocates says one is saved by a dead faith only. They claim it is AFTER one is saved that he does works.

What I am trying to find out from the faith only advocates is this: are those post-salvation works mandatory for the Christian.

If they say "yes" then they are making those post-salvation works necessary to salvation.

If they answer no" then they are saying a Christian does not have to do any works; no repentance, no confession, no baptism, no good works in helping fellow Christians and yet still be saved.....(which of course is not possible).

So this is why they are bouncing around all over the place and trying to avoid giving a simple "yes" or "no" answer to the questions I ask.

When I was younger I was a full blown gospel pentecostal preacher then I was fired up but I was in the wrong faith , now I understand faith as all of God's works , I am not winning my salvation but i am living my salvation because I have stopped struggling with my flesh in total surrendering to moold life and alive to God,s works not as necessity bu

 

[SeaBass]

If only you had the integrity to make the distinction between the believer working and works being necessary to salvation. But alas it is not so.

Service as an onus does not glorify God. Service from love is for the glory of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

After a man becomes a Christian, must he do works?

 

[SeaBass]

that's not a logical either/or statement.

what the Word separates, man should not combine.

What I am trying to find out from the faith only advocates is this: are those post-salvation works mandatory for the Christian?

Can I get a straight up simple "yes" or "no" answer?

 

[Apostol2013]

Not of necessity but of love in Christ that the works are not our own works but of God , for now you are flesh of my flesh bone of my bone that we are espoused to one that is Christ that we are spirit and not flesh

 

[SeaBass]

When I was younger I was a full blown gospel pentecostal preacher then I was fired up but I was in the wrong faith , now I understand faith as all of God's works , I am not winning my salvation but i am living my salvation because I have stopped struggling with my flesh in total surrendering to moold life and alive to God,s works not as necessity bu

God does not do good works for the Christian but God told, before ordained (Eph 2:10) that Christian do good works.

I am simply trying to find out from faith only advocates can one who is a Christian not do works yet still be saved?

 

[Vaudeville]

CAN A PERSON, AFTER HE HAS BECOME A CHRISTIAN, NEVER DO ANY WORKS AND YET BE SAVED?

so he never smiles at the lonely bus driver, he never gives money for missions, he never reads the bible to his kids, he doesn't go to work and do and honest days labor? what?

 

[SeaBass]

Not of necessity but of love in Christ that the works are not our own works but of God , for now you are flesh of my flesh bone of my bone that we are espoused to one that is Christ that we are spirit and not flesh

So if a Christian does not do works that shows he does not love Christ. Can a Christian still be saved while not loving Christ?