Speaking in tongues

[just-me]

These scriptures say that he actually did. He spoke in Greek to the chief captain, and Hebrew to the Jews.
Acts 21:37-40
37 And as Paul was to be led into the castle, he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee ? Who said , Canst thou speak Greek?
38 Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar , and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?
39 But Paul said , I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
40 And when he had given him licence , Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying ,
Acts 22:1-2
1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith ,)

Tongues is a language that somebody can understand. No more, no less. It is also sign for the unbelievers and NOT the believers. Paul knew both Greek and Hebrew and even more.

1 Corinthians 14:22-25
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe , but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe .
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad ?
24 But if all prophesy , and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

If a person needs a sign to confirm that they are baptized with the Spirit, what does that say? We are to love the Lord our God with our mind as well as our heart and soul.

Prophesying is for the believer, and tongues are for the unbelieving.

Paul knew and spoke Greek - wasn't he sent unto the Gentiles? and as for Hebrew. . . . Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
- tongues in Corinthians is given by the Spirit and is a manifestation of the holy Spirit - it is a language that the person speaking doesn't know nor understand . . . .

Paul instruct the Corinthians about how to properly use this gift. There is no record of him ever needing tongues to show manifestation of the indwelling Spirit. I think there was many other things that proved that. Paul knew that tongues were a gift to edify, and he taught the proper use thereof. Corinth was a seaport with many different dialects coming and going, consolidated in one place. It was a very good area to spead the gospel of Christ Jesus.

1-Corinthians 14:15-21
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest ? 17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified .
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children , but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written , With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 28:11-12
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said , This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest ; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear .

My response was to what you said earlier concerning Paul speaking in the "Hebrew tongue" which you have highlighted - as if that were the same as the manifestation of speaking in tongues: IT'S NOT!!!!

I don't know why you responded as you did - I know Paul spoke in tongues but you are trying to correlate that to the verses in Acts . . . NOT THE SAME THING

It is the same. He knew the proper way to use tongues because he spoke more languages than the average person.. That's why he was elected by God to teach their proper usage. That's all I'm saying.

 

[ji]

My pastor wants everyone in church to speak in tongues. We are Baptist but believe in the gifts and practice them. Does speaking in an unknown tongue gives the evidence that we are spirit filed and saved believers? I have friends who are believers in Jesus and they do not practice this. They lead a spirit filled life and are wonderful people of the faith. What does it mean for the whole church to be toungers in the spirit? Who will this edify and how do we interpret this if everyone is babbling? I for one want to be able to know what is being said. He said that he was in Croatia and spoke in tongue, and the people understood him because he was speaking in their native tongue about the Lord. I love the Lord with all my heart and soul,and I have just only talked to him in my native tongue English in which he knows. In speaking in tongue does that make me a super saint and put me on a higher level than other believers? I think after 20 years, I should be at another level in this spiritual journey. I am trying not to use the word Christian...because my pastor says that is the wrong terminology.. We are saved believers. This sets us apart from others who say and use the term Christian..yet they really are not and to remember Christian is not a denomination. Our mandate is to get them to the church..Lead them to Christ...Form community.... Put them to work within the church and pray for church growth and tongue talkers!!!. Is tongues still needed?...or is it just a preference for those who want it?
Just asking.

If you speak in tongues,you are a Christian.How to discern is the prob?(..i know how confusing that can be)
The signs are Godly Humility,walking towards the Perfect image of Christ in your life,Awakening of your Soul,Strengthening of the inner man 'the new Creature-the sons of God(Romans 8:19 KJV)' among Christian Brethren who walk in God's Light.And God's Light is the Holy Scripture.
your pastor is wrong about using the term 'Christian'..
you are a True Christian when you Speak in Tongues and you see and experience things Divine which cannot be even thought based on our human views.Main difference between demonic and Divine is the Divine influence of God always leads to Godly Peace and Eternal Rest in the end.
Various denominations were made by people and not God.
So have no doubts about Gifts of the Holy Spirit and, move closer to God boldly..

Christianity is for the Perfection of a person,and not the way to be chosen after getting perfected.That's human thinking.
Power of the Holy Spirit is needed to overcome the filth of this world and based on the Level of our spiritual Strength our resting place in Eternity will differ from New Earth,New Heaven and ultimately 'New Jerusalem and Zion'.

God Bless

 

[posthuman]

If you speak in tongues, you are a Christian.

there's something radically wrong with that statement.

Aleister Crowley spoke in tongues. do you think he was a Christian?

 

[Ecclesiastik]

> Read that God did miracles yesterday
> Believe it.

>Hear someone say that God does miracles today.
>Don't believe it.

What? Isn't God the same yesterday today and forever? Who locked Him up in your Bible? He's not just some ideal. He's the living God.

 

[notuptome]

I love that the miracle sign of tongues at Pentecost was in the hearing of those present not in the speakers.

There is sooooo much purposeful misinformation on this matter as to cause any prudent man to be very wary of those who claim to practice these things.

Modern religion for fun and profit. Shame. Shame.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

It is the same. He knew the proper way to use tongues because he spoke more languages than the average person.. That's why he was elected by God to teach their proper usage. That's all I'm saying.

You are saying that when Paul spoke Greek and Hebrew he was speaking in tongues - He was speaking a language - yes

But you are saying that the manifestation of the spirit is the same as say someone speaking Spanish, a language that they knew or learned . . . . . That is not the same at all

<sigh> Oh, well . . . .

 

[SeaBass]

Hi SeaBass - I believe speaking in tongues is speaking words given by the Spirit -

yes - Acts was a miraculous occurence wherein the language was understood by all present.

Scripture says - For he that speaketh in an tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Is it possible that someone in the church would be able to understand what is spoken just as in Acts? I believe so - There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh a barbarian unto me. . . Wherefore let him that speaketh in an tongue pray that he may interpret.

In the great commission, Christ sent His apostles out to teach the world, every creature the gospel. From Acts 2 the aposltes spoke Galiliean. So for the apostles to preach the gospel to every creature required that they be able to speak in other earthly languages other than their own Galilean. So the purpose of speaking in tongues was communication specifically communicating the gospel in various earthly languages so men could hear and have faith, Rom 10:17. AS those in Acts 2 heard "we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born" verse 8. So the apostles were enabled by the Holy Spirit to speak in earthly known languages they previously had not known. There is nothing anywhere in the NT that indicates that the tongues speaking taking place in 1 Cor 14 is any different than the tongue speaking as done by the apostles in Acts 2. So the unintelligilbe utterances as seen in todays charismatic groups is NOT the tongue speaking as done in the bible, NOTHING is commuincated through unintelligible uttererances which defeats the purpose of speaking in tongues in communicating the gospel. I was just recently reading an article where the writer spoke of chaismatic groups that send out missionaries to various parts of the world. Yet before sending them out, those missionaries are given lessons in the native language of the country to which they are being sent....undermining their own credibility in tongue speaking.

 

[SeaBass]

LOL! (twice)... says YOU fellow, NOT the Scriptures!



Once again YOUR ignorance on the gifts of the Spirit has the better of YOU!

Do YOURSELF a favour fellow and cure your ignorance on the gifts of the Spirit, I've even linked to 2 excellent studies on them in my last post!

I have personally witnessed those that claim to speak in tongues fail 100% of the time to do what they claim because they are going on false emotions and not scriptural truth.

 

[just-me]

You are saying that when Paul spoke Greek and Hebrew he was speaking in tongues - He was speaking a language - yes

But you are saying that the manifestation of the spirit is the same as say someone speaking Spanish, a language that they knew or learned . . . . . That is not the same at all

<sigh> Oh, well . . . .

Tongues is a language that can be spoken with fluency somewhere within this world. That's the just of it. Imaging hearing someone who you knew didn't speak your language, and for the first time, you heard the gospel of Jesus Christ from that person. Then you would clearly understand that tongues is a sign to the unbeliever, and not a sign for the believer. Paul said that himself. You've already read that in scripture.

*21 In the law it is written , With (2084) men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
**22 Wherefore (1100) tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe , but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe .

1 Corinthians 14:*21. tongues (2084). heteroglossos het-er-og'-loce-sos from 2087 and 1100; other- tongued, i.e. a foreigner:--man of other tongue.

1 Corinthians 14:**22 tongues (1100). glossa gloce-sah' of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication, a language (specially, one naturally unacquired):--tongue.

1100 is the same in Mark 16:15-17
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved ; but he that believeth not shall be damned .
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe ; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;[HR][/HR] Have a wonderful day sis. GBU

 

[The_highwayman]

In the great commission, Christ sent His apostles out to teach the world, every creature the gospel. From Acts 2 the aposltes spoke Galiliean. So for the apostles to preach the gospel to every creature required that they be able to speak in other earthly languages other than their own Galilean. So the purpose of speaking in tongues was communication specifically communicating the gospel in various earthly languages so men could hear and have faith, Rom 10:17. AS those in Acts 2 heard "we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born" verse 8. So the apostles were enabled by the Holy Spirit to speak in earthly known languages they previously had not known. There is nothing anywhere in the NT that indicates that the tongues speaking taking place in 1 Cor 14 is any different than the tongue speaking as done by the apostles in Acts 2. So the unintelligilbe utterances as seen in todays charismatic groups is NOT the tongue speaking as done in the bible, NOTHING is commuincated through unintelligible uttererances which defeats the purpose of speaking in tongues in communicating the gospel. I was just recently reading an article where the writer spoke of chaismatic groups that send out missionaries to various parts of the world. Yet before sending them out, those missionaries are given lessons in the native language of the country to which they are being sent....undermining their own credibility in tongue speaking.

So in Acts 19 who did the 12 disciples speak in tongues to after Paul laid his hands on them? They were in Ephesus at the time and receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, It would seem that only Paul, Luke and the 12 where present a tthe time, and we know that Greek and Hebrew was the dominate language of the Day in Ephesus, so who did these 12 men speak in tongues to.

 

[Timeline]

i never really thought of this verse critically. If it cannot be 'uttered' then it is not from our lips, or even audible in this world.

This is actually a proof text against 'prayer language' doctrine, rather than for it.

I agree, but even more than that I think it means that the Holy Spirit more clearly communicates our "thoughts" that we cannot put in to words. Since we are in the flesh the Holy Spirit, which is Spirit, communicates between flesh and spirit. This does not mean that we are speaking or thinking gibberish to ourselves.

 

[posthuman]

I agree, but even more than that I think it means that the Holy Spirit more clearly communicates our "thoughts" that we cannot put in to words. Since we are in the flesh the Holy Spirit, which is Spirit, communicates between flesh and spirit. This does not mean that we are speaking or thinking gibberish to ourselves.

i sincerely doubt that the native language of heaven is English or even Aramaic, and certainly not gibberish!

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.
(2 Corinthians 9:15)

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing,
ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory
(1 Peter 1:8)

 

[Timeline]

1 Corinthians 14:19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

In the great commission, Christ sent His apostles out to teach the world, every creature the gospel. From Acts 2 the aposltes spoke Galiliean. So for the apostles to preach the gospel to every creature required that they be able to speak in other earthly languages other than their own Galilean. So the purpose of speaking in tongues was communication specifically communicating the gospel in various earthly languages so men could hear and have faith, Rom 10:17. AS those in Acts 2 heard "we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born" verse 8. So the apostles were enabled by the Holy Spirit to speak in earthly known languages they previously had not known.

The great commission: Go ye therefore and teach all nations [ctr ref. "make disciples" or "Christians of all nations"] baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit: Teaching them to ovserve all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world - and I will give you earthly languages that you previously did not know so you can preach. Boy, that is stretching it don't ya think?

The day of Pentecost - Acts 2:4 And they were filled with the holy spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. . . .Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language . . .AS THE SPIRIT GAVE THEM UTTERANCE AND THE MIRACLE WAS THAT THE LANGUAGES SPOKEN WERE IN THE LANGUAGE OF THOSE PRESENT but spoken by Galileans. Did they preach - the people present heard the apostles speak in their own tongues the wonderful works of God. v32 - This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Now the first sermon by Peter starting in v14 - hmmmm, I believe was in either Greek or Aramaic . . . . .

There is nothing anywhere in the NT that indicates that the tongues speaking taking place in 1 Cor 14 is any different than the tongue speaking as done by the apostles in Acts 2. So the unintelligilbe utterances as seen in todays charismatic groups is NOT the tongue speaking as done in the bible, NOTHING is commuincated through unintelligible uttererances which defeats the purpose of speaking in tongues in communicating the gospel. I was just recently reading an article where the writer spoke of chaismatic groups that send out missionaries to various parts of the world. Yet before sending them out, those missionaries are given lessons in the native language of the country to which they are being sent....undermining their own credibility in tongue speaking.

While Peter yet spake these words, the holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the holy spirit - how did they know they had received? For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. I haven't read anything stating that the manifestation of tongues is given for missionaries to preach the gospel.

I have to agree that in most churches - the manifestation of tongues is handled in error and not according to the way in which they were set up to be utilized within the church. Same as what apparently was happening at Corinth and why the letter of reproof and correction by Paul. But to say that speaking in tongues is just a language so that people can be missionaries is belittling the gift of holy Spirit that is given to us from God.

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) [John 7:38,39] And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. [ Luke 24:49] And being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the holy Spirit not many days hence. [Acts 1:4,5] Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. [Acts 2:33] Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the holy Spirit. [Acts 2:38]

 

[phil112]

I have been in NUMEROUS meetings over the last 30 years when an utterance in the gift of tongues has been given and it has been interpreted by different individual Christians! (the gift of tongues and the interpretation of tongues being operated by the Holy Spirit, 1Cor 12v11)

It would appear to me you just don't understand the different functions of the gift of tongues, I suggest you read This (the gift of tongues is covered in number 8) and This

Yahweh Shalom

It absolutely appears to me you embrace false doctrine. I don't need to click on your link and have a man explain to me what God has already clearly told us. I suggest you get on your knees and ask God to help you understand some of the scriptures you have so much trouble with, rather than turn to man for clarification. If you would "study to show yourself approved unto God", you wouldn't have to take someone's word for it, that themselves don't understand.
Tongues is the least desirable of gifts, so why would anyone ask for it in the first place?
Tongues isn't something that you don't know if you're going to have at a particular time, you already have it. Paul didn't have to have the Spirit move him before he could speak tongues. Interpretation is the same way. 1 Cornithians 14:28; "But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God."
The whole fallacy of "tongues" doctrine today is that the Spirit will move on anyone at any time to speak in tongues. The bible does not bear that out. We will know if we have the gift of tongues, and we will know who has the gift of interpretation.
You know before tongues is spoken if someone is there that can interpret it. It doesn't suddenly come on someone as a surprise. That is why I asked you to name an interpreter. You can't. Why? Because your experience with tongues, like every example I have ever seen, is false.
It is also worth noting that if you have seen tongues uttered for 30 years, a good many of those 30 years you didn't understand what you were hearing. There is not an 8 year old alive that has the discernment to understand the gifts of the Spirit.

We are talking about milk here.
What in the world are you going to do when you get to strong meat?

 

[just-me]

So in Acts 19 who did the 12 disciples speak in tongues to after Paul laid his hands on them? They were in Ephesus at the time and receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, It would seem that only Paul, Luke and the 12 where present a tthe time, and we know that Greek and Hebrew was the dominate language of the Day in Ephesus, so who did these 12 men speak in tongues to.

It seems obvious to me that Paul was traveling the coast and ran into these 12. I'm convinced that there were many more there in the open than these 12, for they had to be next to some water as stated in verse 5. Then in verse 6, Paul lays his hands on them, and they began to speak.

It doesn't say they were in any kind of building. So the people in Ephesus that heard them speaking in tongues, out in the open air, heard the gospel of Christ Jesus, probably still standing next to the water they were baptized in on the upper coast when they came to Ephesus.
Acts 19:1-7
1 And it came to pass , that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them , Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed ? And they said unto him , We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized ? And they said , Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is , on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied .
7 And all the men were about twelve.

 

[The_highwayman]

It seems obvious to me that Paul was traveling the coast and ran into these 12. I'm convinced that there were many more there in the open than these 12, for they had to be next to some water as stated in verse 5. Then in verse 6, Paul lays his hands on them, and they began to speak.

It doesn't say they were in any kind of building. So the people in Ephesus that heard them speaking in tongues, out in the open air, heard the gospel of Christ Jesus, probably still standing next to the water they were baptized in on the upper coast when they came to Ephesus.
Acts 19:1-7
1 And it came to pass , that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them , Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed ? And they said unto him , We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized ? And they said , Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is , on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied .
7 And all the men were about twelve.

OK and why would they be talking in a tongue people already knew and understood?

 

[notuptome]

OK and why would they be talking in a tongue people already knew and understood?

Good observation but why would they speak in a tongue no one knew? Tongues as known languages would be necessary for the propagation of the gospel. People from different areas would have different languages and not all the disciples would have been well versed in the various languages. The gift of made it possible for people of differing languages to communicate and comprehend the gospel message.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[The_highwayman]

Good observation but why would they speak in a tongue no one knew? Tongues as known languages would be necessary for the propagation of the gospel. People from different areas would have different languages and not all the disciples would have been well versed in the various languages. The gift of made it possible for people of differing languages to communicate and comprehend the gospel message.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

There lies the conundrum

 

[posthuman]

what conundrum?
did those at pentecost speak in a language no one understood, or in a completely unknown tongue that no one on earth could interpret?
not at all:
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
(Acts 2:6)

likewise in Acts 10:46 when the Holy Spirit fell on the gentiles for the first time, as a sign to the world:
For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God
it was understood by people present what they were saying - else how would anyone know they were extolling God?